[XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1678.

CoinHoarder

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Quote from: wpalczynski on October 25, 2015, 03:46:47 PM

Really? LMAO

Yes, I am probably dumb but please explain in laymen's terms how Bitshares 2.0 transactions are traceable.

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 25, 2015, 03:40:47 PM

rabble rabble

Bitshares has been one of the most innovative developments in the Cryptocoin world that actually had a public release. Don't dis it. Angry

https://bitshares.org/technology/

chennan

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Activity: 1316

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Quote from: americanpegasus on October 25, 2015, 03:40:47 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:18:55 PM

(various bitshares spam).... That is why you've never seen me on the Monero train.

Dude, I spent like thirty seconds googling to try to ascertain some of these claims and immediately ran into this silliness.

Quote

Here is the tricky part: for the moment, those Bitshares flavored PTS are mined on a Bitcoin clone and THESE are the PTS exchanged and traded on the pair PTS/BTC (bter). The idea to proceed that way, temporary with a bitcoin clone, is to gain traction quickly and investors on board. In the future, holding Bitshares flavored PTS (on a address with the corresponding private key) will give a new distribution 1:1 for real PTS Protoshares.

In the most drill sergeant voice I can manage - hollllllly fucking shit private, are you kidding me? Hey, I got an idea. I'm gonna issue a bitcoin clone called "quantum coin" and it will be a bitcoin clone *but* will be 1:1 redeemable for the first quantum encrypted crypto one day. Roll Eyes

Oh, but it gets better...

Quote

Limit of 2,000,000 AGS (shares of the project) can be bought by BTC or PTS through an "ingenious" bidding system, where 10,000 AGS per day are distributed. The round will end the 19th July after 200 days.

Get the fuck out of here with this weak ass bullshit. I don't usually curse, but this is straight idiotic. Ingenious bidding system huh? Fuck right off. Scheme scam spam bullshit. One more reason why anyone involved in Monero is lucky to be here in a sea of shit like this.

lololol... AP, what's your drink of choice today? I want to get on your level of drunk today so I can watch football, get hammered, and yell and curse at other users who claim that BTS is a better currency than monero through this forum... Sounds like the kind of fun/stress relief I need today

smooth

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:44:39 PM

Quote from: smooth on October 25, 2015, 03:29:52 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:18:55 PM

Bitshares 2.0 is more anonymous than Monero with mandatory stealth addresses and an implementation of Confidential Transactions already live on the blockchain..... it seems less speculative than Monero's plans to implement their own version of Confidential Transactions. Wink

CT plus stealth is not "more anonymous" than Monero. Mostly the two aren't comparable (both do something the other doesn't), although Monero is arguably somewhat more anonymous, as I will explain.

Privacy/anonymity consists of:

A. unlinkability (can't tell two transactions are to the same recipient): stealth (or just not reusing addresses)
B. untraceability (can't trace paths between tranasctions): ring signatures (or coinjoin, coinswap, though with many complications and hazards, etc.)
C. content privacy (can't see amount being spent): CT (or limited ambiguity of which outputs are change)

Bitshares with CT gives you A and C, but nothing at all for B. Monero gives you A and B, and somewhat C (via ambiguity of change outputs). Monero with ringCT will give A,B, and C, for a comprehensive solution.

Currently Monero lacks C though.

Not completely. It deliberately includes some extra coins in the transaction and then sends them back as change. You can't tell which outputs go to the recipient, so you can't identify the amount. Some sort of range or candidates can be inferred.

Quote

I don't see how Bitshares 2.0 transactions are traceable since they do both A and C?

Neither A nor C address tracing at all. Every connection in the blockchain is still 100% visible.

Read what Greg Maxwell and Blockstream has written about transaction metadata, since they invented the thing. CT doesn't solve it.

Quote

I'm not arguing that having A+B+C will be less anonymous than A+C, however I see A+C being more anonymous than A+B.

As I said they are not comparable. Neither is more anonymous than the other in any objective mathematical sense. You are entitled to your opinion as to qualitative superiority of course.

kazuki49

sr. member

Activity: 350

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:44:39 PM

Currently Monero lacks C though.

You came to the wrong neighborhood to shill shitcoins Cheesy

Monero does not lacks C friend, you still can't know the correct amount that was transactioned, you can know it was a big amount or a small amount, in the future you'll not be able to know any amount.

wpalczynski

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Activity: 1456

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:44:39 PM

Quote from: smooth on October 25, 2015, 03:29:52 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:18:55 PM

Bitshares 2.0 is more anonymous than Monero with mandatory stealth addresses and an implementation of Confidential Transactions already live on the blockchain..... it seems less speculative than Monero's plans to implement their own version of Confidential Transactions. Wink

CT plus stealth is not "more anonymous" than Monero. Mostly the two aren't comparable (both do something the other doesn't), although Monero is arguably somewhat more anonymous, as I will explain.

Privacy/anonymity consists of:

A. unlinkability (can't tell two transactions are to the same recipient): stealth (or just not reusing addresses)
B. untraceability (can't trace paths between tranasctions): ring signatures (or coinjoin, coinswap, though with many complications and hazards, etc.)
C. content privacy (can't see amount being spent): CT (or limited ambiguity of which outputs are change)

Bitshares with CT gives you A and C, but nothing at all for B. Monero gives you A and B, and somewhat C (via ambiguity of change outputs). Monero with ringCT will give A,B, and C, for a comprehensive solution.

Currently Monero lacks C though.

I don't see how Bitshares 2.0 transactions are traceable since they do both A and C? I'm not arguing that having A+B+C will be less anonymous than A+C, however I see A+C as being more anonymous than A+B.

Really? LMAO

CoinHoarder

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Activity: 1484

Merit: 1026

In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: smooth on October 25, 2015, 03:29:52 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:18:55 PM

Bitshares 2.0 is more anonymous than Monero with mandatory stealth addresses and an implementation of Confidential Transactions already live on the blockchain..... it seems less speculative than Monero's plans to implement their own version of Confidential Transactions. Wink

CT plus stealth is not "more anonymous" than Monero. Mostly the two aren't comparable (both do something the other doesn't), although Monero is arguably somewhat more anonymous, as I will explain.

Privacy/anonymity consists of:

A. unlinkability (can't tell two transactions are to the same recipient): stealth (or just not reusing addresses)
B. untraceability (can't trace paths between tranasctions): ring signatures (or coinjoin, coinswap, though with many complications and hazards, etc.)
C. content privacy (can't see amount being spent): CT (or limited ambiguity of which outputs are change)

Bitshares with CT gives you A and C, but nothing at all for B. Monero gives you A and B, and somewhat C (via ambiguity of change outputs). Monero with ringCT will give A,B, and C, for a comprehensive solution.

Currently Monero lacks C though.

I don't see how Bitshares 2.0 transactions are traceable since they do both A and C? I'm not arguing that having A+B+C will be less anonymous than A+C, however I see A+C as being more anonymous than A+B.

americanpegasus

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 504

Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:18:55 PM

(various bitshares spam).... That is why you've never seen me on the Monero train.

Dude, I spent like thirty seconds googling to try to ascertain some of these claims and immediately ran into this silliness.

Quote

Here is the tricky part: for the moment, those Bitshares flavored PTS are mined on a Bitcoin clone and THESE are the PTS exchanged and traded on the pair PTS/BTC (bter). The idea to proceed that way, temporary with a bitcoin clone, is to gain traction quickly and investors on board. In the future, holding Bitshares flavored PTS (on a address with the corresponding private key) will give a new distribution 1:1 for real PTS Protoshares.

In the most drill sergeant voice I can manage - hollllllly fucking shit private, are you kidding me? Hey, I got an idea. I'm gonna issue a bitcoin clone called "quantum coin" and it will be a bitcoin clone *but* will be 1:1 redeemable for the first quantum encrypted crypto one day. Roll Eyes

Oh, but it gets better...

Quote

Limit of 2,000,000 AGS (shares of the project) can be bought by BTC or PTS through an "ingenious" bidding system, where 10,000 AGS per day are distributed. The round will end the 19th July after 200 days.

Get the fuck out of here with this weak ass bullshit. I don't usually curse, but this is straight idiotic. Ingenious bidding system huh? Fuck right off. Scheme scam spam bullshit. One more reason why anyone involved in Monero is lucky to be here in a sea of shit like this.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:18:55 PM

Bitshares 2.0 is more anonymous than Monero with mandatory stealth addresses and an implementation of Confidential Transactions already live on the blockchain..... it seems less speculative than Monero's plans to implement their own version of Confidential Transactions. Wink

CT plus stealth is not "more anonymous" than Monero. Mostly the two aren't comparable (both do something the other doesn't), although Monero is arguably somewhat more anonymous, as I will explain.

Privacy/anonymity consists of:

A. unlinkability (can't tell two transactions are to the same recipient): stealth (or just not reusing addresses)
B. untraceability (can't trace paths between tranasctions): ring signatures (or coinjoin, coinswap, though with many complications and hazards, etc.)
C. content privacy (can't see amount being spent): CT (or limited ambiguity of which outputs are change)

Bitshares with CT gives you A and C, but nothing at all for B. Monero gives you A and B, and somewhat C (via ambiguity of change outputs). Monero with ringCT will give A,B, and C, for a comprehensive solution.

cAPSLOCK

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Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

Quote from: klee on October 25, 2015, 03:26:21 PM

I avoid pump & dumps meteors!

Hey, I mined PTS back in the day...

I mined protoshares as well. One of my most profitable overall alt involvements actually. But something seemed so multi level marketing ish about that whole thing...

klee

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Activity: 1498

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on October 25, 2015, 03:18:55 PM

Quote from: klee on October 25, 2015, 03:05:32 PM

Quote from: chennan on October 25, 2015, 02:55:33 PM

Quote from: klee on October 25, 2015, 02:50:17 PM

Bought some more XMR today!

In this alt slaughter I added significant amount of XMRs, BTS & ETH in my portfolio (ETH gave a buy signal by the way).

BTC owned = 0

I've heard a lot of people were getting into BTS, but I've never really understood the value of it besides more than mere speculation... Idk if they offer something new in the crypto world like XMR or ETH. But then again I really don't know.

Bitshares 2.0 is more anonymous than Monero with mandatory stealth addresses and an implementation of Confidential Transactions already live on the blockchain..... it seems less speculative than Monero's plans to implement their own version of Confidential Transactions. Wink

https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene/wiki/StealthTransfers

I've always thought investing into purely privacy concerned Cryptocoins is too risky, as the technology is bound to improve upon itself and nothing is stopping other coins with more features from adapting the same privacy techniques. IMO- if Cryptocoins are to grow into real-world use, rather than geek-land use... they are going to have to be simple to use and install, have a lot of beneficial features, and have slick GUIs. Most real-world people are too sheepish to worry about privacy. That is why you've never seen me on the Monero train.

I got tired of coins fundamentals long time ago - I have PnF now that works wonder with volatile instruments like alts.

I only need volume. I should have clarified that all my alt investments is based mainly on this (volume). But I prefer 'old' and established coins or new with serious backing (like ETH).

I avoid pump & dumps meteors!

Hey, I mined PTS back in the day...

CoinHoarder

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Activity: 1484

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: klee on October 25, 2015, 03:05:32 PM

Quote from: chennan on October 25, 2015, 02:55:33 PM

Quote from: klee on October 25, 2015, 02:50:17 PM

Bought some more XMR today!

In this alt slaughter I added significant amount of XMRs, BTS & ETH in my portfolio (ETH gave a buy signal by the way).

BTC owned = 0

I've heard a lot of people were getting into BTS, but I've never really understood the value of it besides more than mere speculation... Idk if they offer something new in the crypto world like XMR or ETH. But then again I really don't know.

Bitshares 2.0 is more anonymous than Monero with mandatory stealth addresses and an implementation of Confidential Transactions already live on the blockchain..... it seems less speculative than Monero's plans to implement their own version of Confidential Transactions. Wink

https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene/wiki/StealthTransfers

I've always thought investing into purely privacy concerned Cryptocoins is too risky, as the technology is bound to improve upon itself and nothing is stopping other coins with more features from adapting the same privacy techniques. IMO- if Cryptocoins are to grow into real-world use, rather than geek-land use... they are going to have to be simple to use and install, have a lot of beneficial features, and have slick GUIs. Most real-world people are too sheepish to worry about privacy. That is why you've never seen me on the Monero train.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: chennan on October 25, 2015, 02:55:33 PM

Quote from: klee on October 25, 2015, 02:50:17 PM

Bought some more XMR today!

In this alt slaughter I added significant amount of XMRs, BTS & ETH in my portfolio (ETH gave a buy signal by the way).

BTC owned = 0

I've heard a lot of people were getting into BTS, but I've never really understood the value of it besides more than mere speculation... Idk if they offer something new in the crypto world like XMR or ETH. But then again I really don't know.

chennan

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1004

Quote from: klee on October 25, 2015, 02:50:17 PM

Bought some more XMR today!

In this alt slaughter I added significant amount of XMRs, BTS & ETH in my portfolio (ETH gave a buy signal by the way).

BTC owned = 0

I've heard a lot of people were getting into BTS, but I've never really understood the value of it besides more than mere speculation... Idk if they offer something new in the crypto world like XMR or ETH. But then again I really don't know.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Bought some more XMR today!

In this alt slaughter I added significant amount of XMRs, BTS & ETH in my portfolio (ETH gave a buy signal by the way).

BTC owned = 0

chennan

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1004

Quote from: kurious on October 25, 2015, 01:47:45 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on October 25, 2015, 07:51:17 AM

Quote from: kurious on October 25, 2015, 07:28:45 AM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on October 25, 2015, 06:47:21 AM

It would be nice if we could bottom ~0.0013, that's exactly on the following support line. In addition, we also have some support at 0.00131.

--snip--

It would indeed be nice.

I can't be the only one here who has an average buy price for a fair chunk of XMR at a level above 0.0013.

Been buying at many stops under the 20's but getting too low on ammo to average down any more just now..

It's looking oversold on a dollar value basis, so I am hopeful 13 is bottom. Pitching my last couple of available BTC in now

And back above 0.0014, what a rollercoaster. Anyway, if we can "paint" a bottom here it would signal some strength, because basically we bounced of that line now.

I think 95%, if not even more, have a average buy in price above the current level. Bear in mind, that we've only been briefly below this level and have been way higher for a longer amount of time. Thus, there is basically no way many people would've profited from it to the extent that they have a buy-in price below this level.

Furthermore, the daily and the 3D RSI shows that we're heavily oversold. I've never seen the daily RSI this low (~20) and even the 3D RSI is droping below 30.

I have been hitting anything under 14 for a few hours on and off now. Fun to pick off even little amounts. Plus have a couple of BTC placed at varying points down to 0.001315 - and have always had a couple under 13 just in case. More volume at this level now - so I can't be the only one - I am no megawhale!

I am too far in to go heavier (I wish) but all I can say is:

THESE PRICES ARE JUST TOO CHEAP TO MISS.

I agree, I feel like the prices of monero are really cheap and I might miss an opportunity to invest everything I have... but I have bills to pay and other things I need to attend too. I try to get some when I can, even if it is as small as 5-10 xmr... but as of right now in the real world, there are bills to be paid which only can be paid in fiat. Until then, I keep going on to work every week and working pay check to pay check Sad

kurious

legendary

Activity: 2604

Merit: 1748

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on October 25, 2015, 07:51:17 AM

Quote from: kurious on October 25, 2015, 07:28:45 AM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on October 25, 2015, 06:47:21 AM

It would be nice if we could bottom ~0.0013, that's exactly on the following support line. In addition, we also have some support at 0.00131.

--snip--

It would indeed be nice.

I can't be the only one here who has an average buy price for a fair chunk of XMR at a level above 0.0013.

Been buying at many stops under the 20's but getting too low on ammo to average down any more just now..

It's looking oversold on a dollar value basis, so I am hopeful 13 is bottom. Pitching my last couple of available BTC in now

And back above 0.0014, what a rollercoaster. Anyway, if we can "paint" a bottom here it would signal some strength, because basically we bounced of that line now.

I think 95%, if not even more, have a average buy in price above the current level. Bear in mind, that we've only been briefly below this level and have been way higher for a longer amount of time. Thus, there is basically no way many people would've profited from it to the extent that they have a buy-in price below this level.

Furthermore, the daily and the 3D RSI shows that we're heavily oversold. I've never seen the daily RSI this low (~20) and even the 3D RSI is droping below 30.

I have been hitting anything under 14 for a few hours on and off now. Fun to pick off even little amounts. Plus have a couple of BTC placed at varying points down to 0.001315 - and have always had a couple under 13 just in case. More volume at this level now - so I can't be the only one - I am no megawhale!

I am too far in to go heavier (I wish) but all I can say is:

THESE PRICES ARE JUST TOO CHEAP TO MISS.

americanpegasus

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 504

Quote from: XMRpromotions on October 25, 2015, 09:34:19 AM

, at least a little!

You're right, I forgot to mention that. I do plan on diversifying and holding 5% of my assets in other cryptonote coins. Since I accidentally found myself helping out with aeon, it's kind of hypocritical if I don't also buy some of that. I'm thinking at current prices, I can at least afford to own aeon:Monero on a 1:1 basis.

As well, boolberry has been pretty upstanding as well, and I do plan on buying some of that too.

As far as owning Bitcoin? Nah. I'll pass - it doesn't seem like a technology worth investing into. Grin

.

They have the network advantage, but there's nothing else attractive I can see about owning Bitcoin over Monero once we have the 1.0 release out. I believe in time others will feel similarly.

Finally, remember I did not become well known online through my fiscal responsibility. Wink

farfiman

legendary

Activity: 1449

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Quote from: XMRpromotions on October 25, 2015, 09:35:13 AM

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 25, 2015, 08:28:07 AM

If you have an opinion on the matter, we just had a topic on Reddit discussing what to eventually call Monero atomic units on Reddit. (Yes, it's a conversation we've had before, and will have again).

My favorite is a combination of the most popular suggestions, a millionth of a Monero being called a nero, and a millionth of a nero being called an eta.

Check out the topic if you like: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3q21yx/its_time_to_argue_about_what_atomic_units_of/

I like nero, but am not sold on eta yet.

They should be in esperanto. eta is great ..... nero less so. how about iom ( little)

XMRpromotions

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 25, 2015, 08:28:07 AM

If you have an opinion on the matter, we just had a topic on Reddit discussing what to eventually call Monero atomic units on Reddit. (Yes, it's a conversation we've had before, and will have again).

My favorite is a combination of the most popular suggestions, a millionth of a Monero being called a nero, and a millionth of a nero being called an eta.

Check out the topic if you like: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3q21yx/its_time_to_argue_about_what_atomic_units_of/

I like nero, but am not sold on eta yet.

XMRpromotions

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 25, 2015, 09:15:15 AM

I have 100% of my savings in Monero because I believe in it that much

Monero is the leading anonymous (with optional transparency) coin in crypto and has a good chance to retain that position as the market expands dramatically in the coming years. It is still crazy to go all in (with 100% of your crypto holdings) on one coin.

Why not put some in bitcoin? If you love CryptoNote why not put a little in Boolberry and Aeon too? Ethereum seems overpriced to me based on development so far, but putting some percentage of your portfolio in other 2.0 projects still makes some sense.

Diversify, at least a little!

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1678. (Read 3313576 times)