[XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1695.

phishead

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Keep what's important, and know who's your friend

Quote from: dnaleor on October 17, 2015, 06:50:22 PM

Quote from: kazuki49 on October 17, 2015, 06:28:08 PM

Quote from: wpalczynski on October 17, 2015, 06:22:34 PM

One thing the fuckers could do is forbid any licensed or regulated exchange from allowing trading of any anonymous coins.

This would be funny because it automatically translates to "all coins being traded are certifiable not anonymous" Cheesy

about banning anonymous coins:
let them do it, it will draw attention to monero in stead of keeping people away meanwhile exposing that they are afraid of it because it threatens the existence of the state.

Don't do drugs they said, well... people smoke weed more than when it wasn't banned...

That's actually very true. To have some sort of controversy surrounding Monero, about "is it too anonymous?", "can government regulate Monero?", "what is this amount, view, private key thing anyway?" will be so good. I mean especially when regarding to what Smoothie was talking about relating to AP's video he posted... if this were to get on a major news station because of government "banning" it, it will cause people going in a frenzy to find out what it is..

It's just the nature of human beings... people want what they can't have.

dnaleor

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1000

Want privacy? Use Monero!

Quote from: kazuki49 on October 17, 2015, 06:28:08 PM

Quote from: wpalczynski on October 17, 2015, 06:22:34 PM

One thing the fuckers could do is forbid any licensed or regulated exchange from allowing trading of any anonymous coins.

This would be funny because it automatically translates to "all coins being traded are certifiable not anonymous" Cheesy

about banning anonymous coins:
let them do it, it will draw attention to monero in stead of keeping people away meanwhile exposing that they are afraid of it because it threatens the existence of the state.

Don't do drugs they said, well... people smoke weed more than when it wasn't banned...

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1491

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: othe on October 17, 2015, 06:33:12 PM

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 06:26:33 PM

People could always argue that exchanges can always require users to use mixin of 0 when withdrawing and keep all view keys of exchange and amount keys of that exchange open for public audit for TPTB.

Except that with the hardfork whose code is already beeing done there will be a minimum mixin on a protocol level.

lol right i forgot about that...

ok in the next few months then Cheesy

othe

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 06:26:33 PM

People could always argue that exchanges can always require users to use mixin of 0 when withdrawing and keep all view keys of exchange and amount keys of that exchange open for public audit for TPTB.

Except that with the hardfork whose code is already beeing done there will be a minimum mixin on a protocol level.

smoothie

legendary

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: rpietila on October 17, 2015, 06:29:06 PM

Quote from: wpalczynski on October 17, 2015, 06:22:34 PM

One thing the fuckers could do is forbid any licensed or regulated exchange from allowing trading of any anonymous coins.

Yes I also think it is a "smart" idea to drive all trading to Crypto Kingdom, which is specifically designed for antifragility.

For which reason I don't believe a ban is in the cards.

Their game now is to make people stupider and hate each other. Not so much banning things and enforcing the bans.

Banning crypto (or a type of crypto) gives an unintended validation that monero (assuming we are talking about it being banned) is in fact a worthy threat to financial status quo.

rpietila

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Activity: 1722

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Quote from: wpalczynski on October 17, 2015, 06:22:34 PM

One thing the fuckers could do is forbid any licensed or regulated exchange from allowing trading of any anonymous coins.

Yes I also think it is a "smart" idea to drive all trading to Crypto Kingdom, which is specifically designed for antifragility.

For which reason I don't believe a ban is in the cards.

Their game now is to make people stupider and hate each other. Not so much banning things and enforcing the bans.

kazuki49

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: wpalczynski on October 17, 2015, 06:22:34 PM

One thing the fuckers could do is forbid any licensed or regulated exchange from allowing trading of any anonymous coins.

This would be funny because it automatically translates to "all coins being traded are certifiable not anonymous" Cheesy

smoothie

legendary

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: wpalczynski on October 17, 2015, 06:22:34 PM

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 06:20:46 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 17, 2015, 05:50:02 PM

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 05:04:36 PM

What does a GUI and "under-the-hood" work have to do with regulation unless we are talking about the view key/view amount items?

What work needs to get done to be in "compliance"?

I dont follow...

I suppose I was more alluding to the possibility that a law comes down from above banning Monero, but my guess was that we will have sufficient network effect by the end of 2016 to prevent such a scenario.

But yes, the danger of dropping away to irrelevance is always there if things stagnate for too long.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

Not sure what law would be put into place by what government that would make monero less desirable.

Perhaps putting a law like that into place can do one of two things (or both):

1. Make people scared of using it because of Government X will slam the hammer on them.

2. Validate that Monero is a danger to the status quo of the financial system and is a safe haven.

One thing the fuckers could do is forbid any licensed or regulated exchange from allowing trading of any ~~anonymous~~ Privacy-Defaulted (optional transparency) coins.

People could always argue that exchanges can always require users to use mixin of 0 when withdrawing and keep all view keys of exchange and amount keys of that exchange open for public audit for TPTB.

smoothie

legendary

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Merit: 1491

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: dnaleor on October 17, 2015, 06:12:05 PM

Quote

12.3.8. "Can a "digital coin" be made?"
   - The answer appears to be "no"
   + Software is infinitely copyable, which means a software
   representation of digital money could be replicated many
   times
   - this is not to say it could be _spent_ many times,
   depending on the clearing process...but then this is not
   a "coin" in the sense we mean
   - Software is trivially replicable, unlike gold or silver
   coins, or even paper currency. If and when paper currency
   becomes trivially replicable (and color copiers have almost
   gotten there), expect changes in the nature of cash.
   (Speculation: cash will be replaced by smart cards,
   probably not of the anonymous sort we favor.)

Basically they are talking about something I heard a lot by outsiders: that the fact that bitcoin is open source and can be copied, it makes it worthless...

Well, they are talking about altcoins avant la lettre and failed to see that a network effect would mean that one "strain of currency software" would probably produce one big currency network, some insignificant smaller ones and a "tale of shitoins".

=> I don't invest (much) in altcoins that are based on bitcoin codebase (such as LTC, DOGE, PPC, DASH, etc) Chances are very high they become obsolete or at least insignificant because all of their features (if found valuable and secure) can be implemented in BTC.

Monero is different though, because it is a "different strain of currency software". So it can compete directly for the network effect on a global scale.

People who use that excuse why bitcoin may not work (due to its ability to be copied and re-released) don't understand essentially how the protocol works and the network effect works.

They simply look at it in the fiat style of printing funny munny which has really no technological function other than to wipe one's ass with and pay for things at the same time.

Reminds me of the video AP posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95-yZ-31j9A&feature=youtu.be

I think this is a relevant analogy to when people did not understand what email/internet was. They make uneducated comments and years later look foolish.

wpalczynski

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 06:20:46 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 17, 2015, 05:50:02 PM

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 05:04:36 PM

What does a GUI and "under-the-hood" work have to do with regulation unless we are talking about the view key/view amount items?

What work needs to get done to be in "compliance"?

I dont follow...

I suppose I was more alluding to the possibility that a law comes down from above banning Monero, but my guess was that we will have sufficient network effect by the end of 2016 to prevent such a scenario.

But yes, the danger of dropping away to irrelevance is always there if things stagnate for too long.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

Not sure what law would be put into place by what government that would make monero less desirable.

Perhaps putting a law like that into place can do one of two things (or both):

1. Make people scared of using it because of Government X will slam the hammer on them.

2. Validate that Monero is a danger to the status quo of the financial system and is a safe haven.

One thing the fuckers could do is forbid any licensed or regulated exchange from allowing trading of any anonymous coins.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1491

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 17, 2015, 05:50:02 PM

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 05:04:36 PM

What does a GUI and "under-the-hood" work have to do with regulation unless we are talking about the view key/view amount items?

What work needs to get done to be in "compliance"?

I dont follow...

I suppose I was more alluding to the possibility that a law comes down from above banning Monero, but my guess was that we will have sufficient network effect by the end of 2016 to prevent such a scenario.

But yes, the danger of dropping away to irrelevance is always there if things stagnate for too long.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

Not sure what law would be put into place by what government that would make monero less desirable.

Perhaps putting a law like that into place can do one of two things (or both):

1. Make people scared of using it because of Government X will slam the hammer on them.

2. Validate that Monero is a danger to the status quo of the financial system and is a safe haven.

kazuki49

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 17, 2015, 05:50:02 PM

But yes, the danger of dropping away to irrelevance is always there if things stagnate for too long.

Then I agree with you, Monero is almost past that zone, compared to other altcoins it is well beyond most.

dnaleor

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1000

Want privacy? Use Monero!

Quote

12.3.8. "Can a "digital coin" be made?"
   - The answer appears to be "no"
   + Software is infinitely copyable, which means a software
   representation of digital money could be replicated many
   times
   - this is not to say it could be _spent_ many times,
   depending on the clearing process...but then this is not
   a "coin" in the sense we mean
   - Software is trivially replicable, unlike gold or silver
   coins, or even paper currency. If and when paper currency
   becomes trivially replicable (and color copiers have almost
   gotten there), expect changes in the nature of cash.
   (Speculation: cash will be replaced by smart cards,
   probably not of the anonymous sort we favor.)

Basically they are talking about something I heard a lot by outsiders: that the fact that bitcoin is open source and can be copied, it makes it worthless...

Well, they are talking about altcoins avant la lettre and failed to see that a network effect would mean that one "strain of currency software" would probably produce one big currency network, some insignificant smaller ones and a "tale of shitoins".

=> I don't invest (much) in altcoins that are based on bitcoin codebase (such as LTC, DOGE, PPC, DASH, etc) Chances are very high they become obsolete or at least insignificant because all of their features (if found valuable and secure) can be implemented in BTC.

Monero is different though, because it is a "different strain of currency software". So it can compete directly for the network effect on a global scale.

dnaleor

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1000

Want privacy? Use Monero!

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 17, 2015, 04:09:09 AM

Start small, and slowly build. Don't draw *too* much attention to yourself too quickly, and for fuck's sake keep a low profile. Once things seem to be going well, take a small risk to grow. Keep taking these risks and look for key opportune moments to strike at rivals and decimate them completely, absorbing their.... hey, wait. Are we talking about cryptocurrency or a successful agar.io strategy? Wink

The universe is full of so many delicious coincidences.

oh man, I lol'ed Grin

Maybe that's why I'm always in for a fun round of agar.io (nowadays I visit chopcoin.io Wink

)
Never thought about that, but it indeed "feels" the same Cheesy

americanpegasus

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Activity: 770

Merit: 504

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 05:04:36 PM

What does a GUI and "under-the-hood" work have to do with regulation unless we are talking about the view key/view amount items?

What work needs to get done to be in "compliance"?

I dont follow...

I suppose I was more alluding to the possibility that a law comes down from above banning Monero, but my guess was that we will have sufficient network effect by the end of 2016 to prevent such a scenario.

But yes, the danger of dropping away to irrelevance is always there if things stagnate for too long.

kazuki49

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: smoothie on October 17, 2015, 05:04:36 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 17, 2015, 04:09:09 AM

...

As is discussed later, too much regulation early on can be absolutely fatal. We are almost past that danger zone though (bitcoin is well past it), and I think once the under-the-hood work is complete and the GUI is out next year we will finally move past that precipice.

...

What does a GUI and "under-the-hood" work have to do with regulation unless we are talking about the view key/view amount items?

What work needs to get done to be in "compliance"?

I dont follow...

I think the "danger zone" he is referring to is not technical or political but the falling into nothingness (that all things must fall to one day eventually, e.g. end of the universe).

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1491

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 17, 2015, 04:09:09 AM

...

As is discussed later, too much regulation early on can be absolutely fatal. We are almost past that danger zone though (bitcoin is well past it), and I think once the under-the-hood work is complete and the GUI is out next year we will finally move past that precipice.

...

What does a GUI and "under-the-hood" work have to do with regulation unless we are talking about the view key/view amount items?

What work needs to get done to be in "compliance"?

I dont follow...

8XMR

member

Activity: 88

Merit: 10

Quote from: wpalczynski on October 17, 2015, 12:29:04 PM

Quote from: phishead on October 16, 2015, 11:16:14 PM

So how about this bull rush for both bitcoin and monero, and the fact that everybody else is tanking it pretty hard?? From what my ticker says on my phone, Monero's up a solid 8% ... nicely done. Any particular reason why xmr isn't tanking it down the tubes along with it's other cryptonote siblings?

What do you mean? It tanked along with most alts but bounced back a bit yesterday.

I not surprised Monero starting recover from recent low. Much development recently. Bright future ahead.

americanpegasus

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 504

Quote from: binaryFate on October 17, 2015, 01:17:37 PM

Don't take it bad, but this sounds very much like what crapcoins do: focus on the form rather than the content.
I question the effectiveness of your approach in a forum full of competition in terms of shiny bells and whistles.

But it would also be a mistake to eschew form and flash entirely. Remember, it's not always the superior technology that wins if something with better marketing usurps it.

It should not be a priority, but that doesn't mean that appeal isn't important - after all, cryptocurrency only becomes money if many people desire to own and use it (and many of those people are easily swayed by shallow things). You just have to be benevolent enough to give them a superior product that also has superior presentation. This hasn't happened that often in history, but when it has the results have always been overwhelming.

wpalczynski

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: phishead on October 17, 2015, 01:22:30 PM

Quote from: binaryFate on October 17, 2015, 01:17:37 PM

Quote from: phishead on October 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM

So, what is the most visually appealing signature ad I can have as just a member to get people excited about monero? I feel that there should be a really good visually appealing ad someone should create (because I sure can't) for every ranking to get people excited and come to this thread or the ANN thread.

Don't take it bad, but this sounds very much like what crapcoins do: focus on the form rather than the content.
I question the effectiveness of your approach in a forum full of competition in terms of shiny bells and whistles.

I guess you have a point.. but it was just a thought. I honestly haven't been "in the game" long enough to know what other shit coins do. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to get the word out.. I guess I could always just make my own signature with the basic links to monero sites.

Use my "why privacy is important" and "why monero" links.

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1695. (Read 3313576 times)