Topic: yahoo62278 and Yobit - page 5. (Read 2520 times)

I thought just accepting/ignoring the campaign was hypocritical after seeing before so many campaigns forced out for less and have seen so many users tagged up for "advertising scams"..

Then it became too blatantly hypocritical when many in DT were in favor of selectively tagging some advertisers but not others for the same thing..

Just before chaos ensued to find consensus discovery of this situation they coincidentally and conveniently decided to call the campaign quits right in the nick of time..
Hmm..

I suppose it's good that the chaos has been avoided but it leaves some questions unanswered..

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You know Lauda..
This reminds me of a similar situation we had to hash out with some drama over advertising another exchange that was thought to be and turned out to be a scam.. P2PB2B

Thinking it's a scam but wanting it to campaign anyway..

Where many "opinions" thought it was a "scam" but it was going to be advertised anyway, even pushed by those who thought it was a scam themselves (DT1 members), which I found hypocritical and possibly due to "'financial-motivation', i.e. greed" as you say, and in the end it turned out to be proven scam beyond doubt with fake team members and all..

And I took red tags from YOU over that hypocritical situation even though in the end it was definitely a scam and even to this day I have a negative-neutral over it..

Maybe you should get over that situation and admit that me speaking up against the hypocrisy THERE was also the right thing to do and which led to the right outcome..

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Once again, ME pointing out this case of hypocrisy in this Yobit campaign is what lead to this thread, and possibly their closing up shop here.. Just the same as my voicing similar concerns played a large part in stopping P2PB2B..

You're all welcome for my fine community services of questioning hypocrisy at great risk to my own reputation to keep DT straight.. Here, there, and elsewhere..

Wither you like it in one situation but not in another, I don't know what to tell you about that..

This is it. Way more that sufficient for proper referencing and proof that there is no "opinion" here. The word "opinion" is being used to justify or well avoid using the wording 'financial-motivation', i.e. greed. Nice find.

Yeah I don't care about someone wearing a signature and I'm not calling out for people to tag yahoo or participants in the yobit campaign. I will however question why there is no pressure on yahoo to stop managing the campaign (As I got extremely pressured regarding Livecoin) - most influential members even take the route of saying it's good he is managing the campaign due to fear of what would happen otherwise.. that can't be where we are at as a forum, can it?

I'm not defending Yahoo62278's decision to wear the signature himself, I would not have done so in his situation.  And I'm certainly not defending the manipulation which Yobit used to advertise their exchange.  If I had to pick the more productive method with which the two scenarios were handled, I believe you handled the LiveCoin debacle with more honor and dignity.  But that's not to take anything away from Yahoo62278, he volunteered for a job that would make me cringe, and did it remarkably. 

I will however defend the choice by DT members to not tag Yahoo62278.  I think it shows restraint and care.  Like I said, I'm convinced both exchanges are scams, but I won't use my position to force others to agree with me.  I will always allow room for disagreement and difference of opinion.

I'll only respond to this one, not looking to pick a fight with anyone or cause any drama.

I would say that knowing it was YoBits forum it kind of defeats the idea of "Well I only marketed this part of it". We all knew it was yobits forum, we all knew they were pushing their x10 scam on that forum and so I see no reason why it would be acceptable to market their "lesser evil" side. But that's the thing about opinions right? We all have one and sometimes (or most times) we'll disagree .

As other members have mentioned, the two scenarios have some similarities, and some dissimilarities.  I think the two fiascos are actually being handled with consistency by most DT members.  

The LiveCoin campaign started out looking legit, and so no one gave it a second thought when when they saw high ranking respected members wearing that signature.  As their policies started coming into question and many left the campaign on their own accord, and many, including some members for whom I have a lot respect decided to defend them and remain in the campaign.  I didn't feel it was appropriate to tag those folks, even though I disagreed with them.

Yobit, on the other hand, started out advertising their competing forum, then sneakily attempted to connive all the participants to advertise their X10 scam.  Yahoo62278 didn't apply that signature to his account, and even put in the effort to convince Yobit to retract and replace it.  At this point the two; LiveCoin and Yobit signature campaigns can more closely be compared.

I'm convinced that both exchanges are scams, but that doesn't mean that I need everyone to agree with me.  There isn't enough solid evidence of scamming by either exchange, but most of the circumstantial evidence certainly points that way.  As such, I (and I assume many other DT members) felt it was appropriate to tag the exchanges' main accounts, but refrain from tagging the signature campaign managers and participants.  In that regard I don't see any difference between the way the two scenarios are being handled.

You tell me how I can tag Yahoo without causing massive retaliation even though in this case an tag is more than appropriate[1][2], or tagging a massive partitioning in the DT system (i.e. chaos) and I will. This situation has shown two things:

• The DT system is selectively hypocritical (as outlined by you in your argument). Actually, I'm certain that Yobit is by far a worse scam than Livecoin is and that if we assessed the metrics this would be objectively proven true.
• Almost nothing can be done against highly entrenched DT1 members that are financially motivated, especially if there are also other notable members on the payroll (merit source, DT2, other).

As a consequence of this, we have shown complete disregard for all the victims and have pushed the boundary to some scamming behavior is okay because someone's opinion is that it's actually not a scam. Beyond disgusting what money is capable of invoking in humanity.

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[1] Actually the appropriate proportionate action is to get tagged by several DT members. Not because he was part of it, but because he failed/refused to act based on nothing other than financial motivations while third parties spent tens of hours debating and looking into the case.

I wasn’t aware that yahoo has/had no say in who gets/got enrolled into that campaign 

I have been calling for yahoo to resign as YoBit campaign manager:


Yahoo has no power to close the campaign because YoBit could let it continue on autopilot or hire someone else. I am just a lowly single person and cannot force anyone to do anything. I think you did the right thing by closing the LiveCoin campaign. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear the same can be said about the YoBit campaign, but it is currently unclear why specifically YoBit closed their campaign. There was some talk about tagging everyone wearing the YoBit signature and that may have influenced their decision.

Lol kimi80
You are the proof that what nullius and oeleo are talking about is correct.

Yahoo as a manager is better for the forum than without him.

However, in this specific case, I believe theymos should have banned yobit and crypotalk signatures. There are too many problems, and the whole design of the campaign and the companies are harmful for the forum imo.

All this brings me back to is the overwhelming consensus the forum were in regarding the Livecoin campaign that I was managing.

There was one user with one complaint labeling it as a scam and it seemed to only be fit that I would no longer manage such a campaign - I tried to find a solution to the issues but after no success I was more or less forced to end it.

Now I won't draw any parallels here since these are two different cases with two different issues but it does baffle me somewhat that nobody is taking a similar position as they did with the Livecoin debacle.

Yahoo62278 is such respected member of the forum and I doubt he would join to promotion of any garbage or scam project. He has enough work to not cowork with who knows what just to earn a little bit of money. The other words, that fact that yahoo62278 rules YoBit campaign already says that the project is clear.

Yeah, a shitty campaign manager wouldn't screen applicants for promoting their scam & let anyone join.

Oh wait.....


Easy money this scam promoting eh?

I do agree with this, but there are other things to consider here.

When yahoo62278 initially took the job, it was to advertise CryptoTalk, not YoBit. There was a general consensus that if they were going to spam the hell out of the forum, then there should at least be some sort of oversight, as you state, and I pretty much agreed with that. CryptoTalk, although a cesspit of spamming, isn't a scam and no one has ever lost money on it. At some point along the line, two things have changed.

Firstly, the advertising is no longer for CryptoTalk, but for YoBit. YoBit's InvestBox (their initial signature) is 100% a scam, and no one can seriously argue otherwise. Because of the uproar surrounding this, they changed from InvestBox to an AirDrop signature. Marginally less worse, sure, but I still have major issues with users promoting a company which makes products and services designed to steal from other users, even if they are not promoting those exact products. As a random example, if people started advertising a Bitconnect lending service but said "It's OK, I'm not advertising the Bitconnect coin", I suspect negative ratings would be pretty quickly forthcoming.

Secondly, at some point yahoo62278 transitioned from simply having a role banning the worst of the spammers, to wearing the signature himself and apparently enrolled in the campaign, which as pointed out by nullius, lends an air of legitimacy due to his (yahoo's) trusted and respected status to what is an otherwise very shady/borderline scam campaign.

As also pointed out in other threads about this, however, the majority of altcoin signature campaigns fall in to pretty much the same category. Much like the coins on YoBit's InvestBox, the vast majority of altcoins are entirely fake, designed only to make the owners money and are then never heard from again.

I think given the first point I have made above, the correct course of action now for individuals is to leave the campaign and remove the signatures, but given that the campaign is due to finish in two days' time, then that decision is going to made for them.

Yobit have & will continue to have shitposters who spam the fuck out of this place. At the very least, with a good campaign manager like yahoo the sig campaign participants are on a leash & the worst shitposters are not allowed in his campaigns.

I’m not interested in tagging Yobit participants myself but unless theymos bans Yobit from advertising here then I think with yahoo in charge it certainly won’t get any worse.

It could be a hell of a lot worse for us here if Yobit employed a shitty campaign manager.

The following is the substantive content of a PM that I recently sent, lightly edited for privacy and small bugfixes.  It is still raw and conversational; but it sets forth my position with a clarity which I believe should be made of record.

And for the record, almost immediately after I opened this topic, I did PM a link to yahoo62278 as a courtesy.  If he wants to respond to what I have said about him, then in all fairness, I would want to see that.  Whereas if he chooses not to reply, well—my objective here is about Yobit, so we’ll see about Yobit.

I will now wrap up a few other things, and then take a few days’ forum break.  When I return, I will check to see whether or not Yobit really just suddenly disappeared in a puff of smoke, as if inexplicably smitten by the rage of the gods.

Moderation note:  I will soon archive this page, then delete an idiotic zero-substance post as off-topic.

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Thanks for your analysis.  I think that I can best explain whence I come by explaining how I arrived at this point, so to speak.  Why am I, of all people, suddenly keying in on Yobit when I have bigger fish to fry Re: Project Anastasia, etc.?

I actually knew nothing about Yobit, until a few weeks ago.  Whilst catching up after my long “sleep”, I happened across some of o_e_l_e_o’s posts incisively sticking a fork in Investbox, the same way he did to alia’s allegedly EV+ gambling script scam.  This first made me aware that Yobit is a scam site—and it’s a scam site per se:  You know that the Gambling forum would never accept the excuse that a site offers some services with non-mathematically-impossible claims, if some of its games (and indeed, its heavily-pushed flagship games) boldly claim EV+ when they are not.

I think that’s a fine analogy, when Yobit’s defenders seem to like to claim that it’s just a gambling site which happens to call itself an “investment” site or an “exchange”.  OK:  Set aside that that would be blatantly false advertising.  Let’s apply the same standards that we apply to gambling sites—and apply those standards to the site as a whole, as would be done to a partly-scamming (and wholly sleazy) gambling site!

After I became aware of Yobit’s nature as a Ponzi shop, I noticed that I was withholding or minimizing merits on good posts due to the Yobit signature.  Yes.  Thus, this is not correct, or at least, is not seeing the forest for the trees:


yahoo is running a campaign for a site that runs Ponzis.  Period.  He is wreathing them in his own credibility, which is cheapened accordingly—and he is wearing their signature himself, as a DT-sized human shield so that nobody can mass-tag Yobit advertisers without potentially igniting a DT war.

I will reserve further exploring my opinions on what that makes me think of yahoo himself.  Though I would not be deterred by the inevitability of drama, I don’t want the drama—and if I did, Faketoshi has more of it anyway, with the added “benefit” of being so much slimier and more disgusting.

PEOPLE ARE LOSING MONEY BECAUSE OF THIS.  People are clicking those ads, clicking on the “free Yodollars!” that some here seem to be thoughtlessly accepting, and getting sucked into the “Investbox”.  If you suppose that just distrusting X10/Investbox signatures is adequate, then Yobit’s shell game has you fooled just like they are fooling their “investors”.

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You know that I am a loose cannon, even moreso than Lauda.  In the long term, I do not intend to let this go; and there is no way to shut me up, short of me being banned for stating true facts and persuasive arguments in an appropriately courteous and professional manner (if deserved by the target of my exposition).  Hey, I suppose that Vispilio can dream; well, all he has achieved is to very much not improve my existing mood toward Yobit and its supporters.

I hope that we can find a suitable means to achieve the objective of actually obliterating Yobit ads, i.e. per se scam ads, from the forum entirely—not merely keeping them under yahoo’s control and thus, under his shield.  I am dipping my toe in the water here, but I don’t mind diving when I have the time for it; and although I often seem to fall behind on my own threads, I am a patient man who is in it for the long haul, not the drama splash.

Cheers.

Why would anyone pressure yahoo6278 to stop supporting Yobit when they can just use the pretext of stopping Yobit to lord over thousands of random users and use this activity to boost their own "scambusting" profile? I mean, yahoo62278 washes all the right balls, and acheiving their stated goals of stopping Yobit doesn't seem that great compared to all the random users they can lord over and have beg them for forgiveness instead of targeting the one person most able to stop Yobit on this forum. How are they going to exploit thousands of users with arbitrary enforcement if they go after one of their pals? Nah, they will just stick to harassing random unsuspecting users for some shit they excuse their buddies from.

Who are you to declare someone scam-scammer?Are you Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan representative of bitcointalk.org?


I would sue anyone who said "scam" here if I was yobit's place.

Not only is yahoo narrowly rescuing the campaign from being banned for continually spamming without regard for anything but their own advertising success, showing their utter disrespect for this forum, but he is also even himself promoting it in his signature right along with the rest of them..

If ALL Yobit advertisers are to be tagged on the basis of advertising a scam then yahoo himself should indeed expect no special treatment..

But.. I believe that all tagged advertisers, if tagged, should be untagged upon their cooperation and removal of such advertisments, including yahoo, all who heed the warning, as is the usual practice..

he can't defend the yobit now

instead I am defending
yobit is a stock market just like bittrex-binance-houbi!

I don't care what yahoo, suchmoon etc are thinking!

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/sistemkoin/
$1.022.634.531 USD
122.009 BTC

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/catex/
$861.144.482 USD
102.677 BTC

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/hcoin/
$812.509.931 USD
96.745 BTC

........................
There are stock exchanges showing massive counterfeit trading volume like these. There are also very famous ones among them.


https://hackernoon.com/fake-volumes-and-wash-trades-on-exchanges-what-should-we-believe-ps2xr38nb

https://hedgetrade.com/what-is-wash-trading-on-crypto-exchanges/

yobit is trading with real volume, you can even see this by eye.

$22.886.074 USD
2.731 BTC

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/yobit/