Topic: @Yifu/Bitsyncom please dont hold back the chip shipment because of b3 miners... - page 5. (Read 9932 times)

@Ytterbium, Wayne_Chang, koob

Again... so when someone orders an acer notebook with amazon and the notebooks arent in stock anymore then you really await that all orders for intel celeron that came after that should stop until the acer notebook can be delivered? Because its fair?

The problems with b3 are a problem in itself. But there are no problems with the chip batches. So how the heck you await that b3 is shipping faster only because the chips arent shipped? Where do you get that connection from? I ordered chips because i know nothing really can go wrong. Its a proven concept. It only has to be created and shipped.... done. It has nothing to do with b3. And thats why i ordered them.

Regarding chips arent produced... did you miss that several wholesale buyers in china got tens of thousands of chips already? zefir is the only normal buyer that got one normal batch. So if those big buyers got their chips then our chips has to be produced already too. Because... yifu collected chip batch orders for 5 weeks, then he ordered at the foundry. All further ordered batches turned to "ordered" instantly. That means the chips werent already produced in foundry and the new chips could be put on the already existing order list. TSMC is only creating once because the biggest work they have with creating such chips is to change their working space to produce them. So its best for them to do all in one rush.
If you guys are right and those wholesale chips were ordered before and created before then yifu wouldnt have collected chip orders for 5 weeks. He would have moved those orders instantly to TSMC like he did after the order. That sounds to me like a pretty good indicator that our chips are already created.

By the way... TSMC isnt a small company... its nearly THE company for creating chips. So no, there is no big waiting time because they can only produce a small number of chips per time. The wait is only because its more effective to create more chips at once instead in more than one run.

well, here is the deal. you send money to somebody and we both accept the conditions. you side is pay in time, his side is deliver article in time (time is specified in deal).

and avalon not fulfill his side of deal. it doesn't matter if it caused by 3rd party vendor (TSMC) or anything else. zero fucks given. they simply breach mutual agreement. please stop advocate somebody, how is breaching deals and use words as greed and selfish. it is not about this human attributes..(or maybe yes, on avalon side)

next part (very frustrating) is lack of communications from avalon side. once they breach deal, they should communicate on daily basis and push update to their customers every day + send few free chips as compensation of delay. this is how business works in Europe. maybe scammers from chinese basement don't know it.

This thread shows people's greedy and selfish clearly.
Do you really think Avalon team is holding back the chips?
As I know the capacity of TSMC is very limited. Maybe the delay of chips are caused by TSMC or assembly factory.

NO! All the chip buyers are asking for is for the shipping to be according to pre-communicated terms (10 weeks lead time).

On the other hand B3 buyers are not asking why their products have not been shipped on time, rather they are asking that shipping of another product is  delayed to improve their ROI.

So tell me how twisted your mind must be to consider this appropriate.





Also chip orders have much more BTC tied in them compared to Avalon B3. So no, B3 avalon buyers are not more important than the people that have been dumping thousands of BTC on chips.

We all are playing childish game "whos first".

And so are the people who are claiming chips should be sent before B3 units.  Everyone is greedy.

I don't have a B3 order or a chip order so I don't really care either way.

BitSyncom can hold B3 and chips more time, but must compensate ROI dropping - partial refund for adjust price proportionally growth of difficulty. Otherwise, they are just crooks.

This.  I'm not sure why people are saying B3 or chips should be shipped first.  It's deadlines that should be met when promised.  Simple as that.

Anyone who says B3 should come before chips appears to be playing a childish game of "me first".  This is more about deadlines not being honored and not who should be going first.

It's sort of expected that when someone says that something will be delivered on XYZ it will be delivered on XYZ not XYZ + A days/weeks/months.

Not about the Batch 3's or chips being first.

We all ordered and we were all promised a delivery date.

Meet the dates or SHIP asap that is all that needs to be done.

As a Batch 2 owner and also waiting on a B3... I waited over 3 months past the original ETA for my B2 box.

Those of you thinking "chips" would magically arrive on time ether haven't been up on things obviously or need a hard dose of reality... When the chips are ready we will hear from Avalon and everything will be relatively fine and dandy.

I went through all kinds of emotions waiting for my B2 box.  Sure it might sound a little "Stockhom Syndrome"-esq but the reality is Avalon is consistently late (not nearly as bad as BFL obviously) and is more of a "best effort" Quality of Service level guarantee.  To expect German precision production on this is just, well lets say "too optimistic".

Everyone may gripe, but we are not about to kill the goose laying the golden eggs.   

I believe were getting fucked....

So where exactly does it say that batch #3 is held up due to a shortage of ASIC chips?

Be patient and see what happens. I almost ordered 10k chips but got cold feet for exactly these same reasons since my batch 2 Avalons were almost 2 months late with little info why at that point. Eventually they did arrive and actually run 20+% faster than advertised and are 100% stable. Sure they would have made A LOT more had they arrived on time but don't lose perspective because of all that lost opportunity. You're still very early in a long long queue of people trying to get their hands on ASIC's and you'll most likely make a lot of money despite the delay and you'll have Yifu to thank. I hope he gets his "blackhole" of information under control and his timelines more accurate but I'm sure he's doing his best which we should all be grateful for IMO...

He said like 90% of the the 'support tickets' filed were people whining about the order queue, trying to change their position, and he didn't like it very much. That's exactly what's going on here - someone requesting that Yifu completely screw over one group of customers in order to benefit him.

Bitcoin mining hardware is different then any other industry, especially right at this moment. For most people, if something they ordered is delayed, they might be annoyed but it's not going to be that big of a deal at all. And for a hardware startup butterfly lab's 13 month delay wouldn't even be that big of a deal if it was just some gadget.

But, bitcoin mining hardware is incredibly time dependent.  If you're three months late it's a major problem. If you're 13 months late, and you took in bitcoin at $10 now it's $100... yeah people are going to be livid.

The problem is the expectations and anger from users is way in excess of what you'd see in most businesses.  On the other hand, whenever you offer a product people throw money at you, even if you completely ignore them.  So the obvious incentive is to simply ignore everyone.

Kinda poor form on Yifu being incommunicado for so long.

Not sure what is going through that dude's mind.

BitSyncom LLC
187 Wolf Road, Suite 101
Albany, NY 12205
USA

Sue a Chinese company in China? Good luck with that. It would take years and cost a fortune.   And since their assets are in bitcoin, they can't really be seized either. Suing Yifu in NY would also be different, since you don't have a contract with him personally.

___
Technically speaking the fair thing to do would be to ship the batch 3 units that people ordered first, because people who ordered them expected them before the network was flooded with massive numbers of ASICs.

Also, for everyone else the longer they delay the more mining time at low difficulty everyone else gets.

Basically you're arguing that Bitsyncom should screw over the 'lil guy who can't afford 10k chips at a time but does have a batch3 miner on order, in order for you to get your product quicker.

I don't know what they'll do. They should really just focus on getting everyone's orders processed.

Batch 3 in total will  take between 144,000 chips and 192,000 chips.  If they're still waiting on chips from the fab, it would be unethical to delay production on batch 3 and send the chips to customers instead. If they have all the chips they need, they should probably send both. 

Of course, Yifu said that he wanted to get out of the individual miner business and get into the chip business instead. In that case it would be better to keep chip buyers happy then it would be to keep miner buyers happy - since they can't be repeat customers.

Interestingly, he said he got into the business because he wanted to strengthen the network, not make miners rich, and he's annoyed by people submitting tickets whining about their position in the queue order.

Hypothetically speaking, why would you go to China with a lawsuit?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2594647

I believe your buddy Yifu is in NY

Seb posted the link above where Bitsyncom determined B#3's price point;

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2629734

In any case it's from the FAQ on the official Avalon site;

http://launch.avalon-asics.com/#home





F.A.Qs
the need to know
What form of payment do your accept, and where in the world do you ship?

The only form of payment accepted is Bitcoin, we ship worldwide.

If I purchase Avalon Unit right now when can I expect to receive my unit?

At the time of writing Batch #3 is expect to start shipping early May.

How is each batch’s unit price determined?

The price of each unit is the current mining difficulty which at the time of writing, just got readjusted to about 6,695,826. We take that number and multiply it by two ( predicting the network speed will double. ) and calculate the return in a thirty day window, which is about 75 bitcoins. See this site for more details.

How can I find the latest firmware and documentation on the Avalon Unit?

The firmware, documentation and various other information is located on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon

Is there any plan to sell just the ASIC chips themselves and let others build their own units?

Yes, see http://store.avalon-asics.com/?page_id=9605 and https://github.com/BitSyncom/avalon-ref