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Topic: @Yifu/Bitsyncom please dont hold back the chip shipment because of b3 miners... - page 6. (Read 9957 times)

hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 500
I love how you guys post here like they are going to respond.

Don't any of you know a lawyer who can send these guys a certified letter and start the process?

It's really very simple, they took your money and now you need to get their attention.

Just need someone to step up.



 He holds all the cards and I know that sending him something from a lawyer won't help speed him up, only slow him down.



You sir are a doormat.

He holds all the cards??  You paid, he did not deliver. Its not about "oh maybe someday he will send me what I paid for"  After a while you are just a chump.  Question is when is that? 12 weeks? 14 weeks?  4 months?

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
iikun... if you call him you can see that he occassionally clicks away a call. He reads ticket headers but getting an answer is nearly impossible.

Wayne_Chang... i think that is your logic and i dont understand it. I asked for a miner refund because the long delay for batch 3 is so big that i dont believe anymore to get the buying price back. Thats not the case with the chips. I didnt ask for a refund for the chips. I ordered chips because not much can go wrong. Now having the chips delayed because of an independent product isnt ok. It doesnt help the b3- buyers anyway when you see the difficulty. So why should the next group of customers get problems?
Think about it just like we took train from same place to same destination. Your ticket was 1 hour earlier than mine. But the train delayed 1 hour. When the train arrived staition, the conductor let me go first just because you was already delayed but I didn't. Do you think this logic is right or wrong?

Its more like there are people that want to go by train and not have to drive on their own and other people that want to drive on their own by car. The time for the train comes and the road is blocked for the cars... everyone waits and after a long time its said that the train still is standing in the station. But the cars have to wait and wait only because the train should have go through before after schedule. Instead letting the cars through all have to suffer. And instead giving refund to those sitting at the train station so they could buy a taxi ticket the refund is missing. But even with refund... the taxi wouldnt go through... its blocked.
I mean yifu would not even have work with shipping the chips. A least not much. Solving some tickets, telling his shipment provider how many chips to ship to which address and thats it. Completely different to creating miners.

@SebastianJu, you should spam call Yifu until he finally answers. You seem to have had luck in the past. Tongue

I gave up on this. I tried it for days... i have a list with all the calls and how fast the call was ended... 90% of the time it rings out at 30 seconds, the remaining times he click me away. He will definitely not answer me anymore. I gave up on this. I know he reads the topics of tickets... thats the only thing i try occasionally to remind him.

And that is why so many of us B3 folk opted for a refund.  The reasons which made the deal sensible went out the window with the chip sales following right on their heels/ahead in shipping.

I would have kept it when it came in time... May 5th was the original shipping date  Shocked... its now nearly 3!!! months later... i mean the chips would have been shipped a good time after that... then assembly and so on... b3-miners would have gotten their chance. But at least yifu saw himself that there is a problem and offered refund. In bitcoin... thats something good... though i miss the refund till now.

It's not ethically fair to hold up chips for one group when the chips are ready for both the Avalon units and DIY boards.

This assumes the chips are ready and waiting to be shipped, of which there is no evidence of.  Just be patient and wait for your chips as we wait for our Avalons.  What will be will be.

I dont doubt that they are there. Yifu collected chip batches until 5 weeks after opening of the sales. Then he ordered all batches at the foundry at once. All future batches were ordered instantly at the foundry. Most probably because they didnt have started to produce and so the new batch still could switch into queue. And the foundry waited a bit so that they only have to change their machines one time and produce all in one rush. Now already many chips are shipped to those 2 big wholesale buyers and one small batch to zefir. Im sure those chips are produced with all the others. But those wholesalebuyers were smart enough to get a special contract with fast delivery. I doubt that so many chips were ordered in between. If they would have ordered those wholesale chips from the start then it would have been no problem to order all other batches right in the moment of ordering. But yifu didnt, he ordered after 5 weeks.
Of course thats no evidence but i think it contains some logic.

If you guys insist on your logic, how about this.
Bitsyncom comes out 2nd generation wafer, and sold out immediately. Because wafer do not need to do assembly and test, so they ship wafer before your guys' chips or at least paralleled.
How do you think in this way?

Wouldnt happen. Because new generation chips cant be produced faster than already proofed old ones. I ordered the old chips especially because i know that it can be done fast.

Guys, first in first out is the basic rule. Especially for goods come from same company and will affect each other no matter which is shipped first.

*lol* I hope you never become a manager at amazon. You probably would stop the whole shipment machinery when goods are sold out. Yes, youre right, these buyers ordered earlier but hold back other already available goods? I hope you get the point.

@AMD FTW... I remember too that Yifu calculated the price on future mining income. It was some kind of formula... *search* I guess i found it: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2629734

Honestly, I'm of a different opinion.
It's enough seeing BFL spit on "the queue" by sending Jalapenos out that were later ordered than other singles/rigs.
Please don't do that too, Avalon. Batch 3 boxes were just ordered first.
Thx 4 reading.

Thats unfair from BFL, i see this too. But the difference is that they work on those newer orders first while they should work on the olders first.
Its different with avalon. The chips ONLY need to be shipped. No miner to create. So thats not an excuse.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
ars longa, vita brevis
Avalon batch 3 is a product of Bitsyncom,
Chips are a product of TCSM,
Jupiter and Saturns are a product of KnCminer.

So, i pretend that KnCminer now delays his hardware shipment, to protect us poor customers.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 500
I love how you guys post here like they are going to respond.

Don't any of you know a lawyer who can send these guys a certified letter and start the process?

It's really very simple, they took your money and now you need to get their attention.

Just need someone to step up.

sr. member
Activity: 281
Merit: 250
I don't see chip buyers running around begging avalon b3 to be delayed, do you?


Well here we go.... PLEASE DELAY BATCH 3, Ship the chippies first so we can develp more boards then just avalon
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
I don't see chip buyers running around begging avalon b3 to be delayed, do you?
full member
Activity: 204
Merit: 100
Neither do I see a clause in the chip shipment information that shipping might be delayed due to delays in other products.

Batch 3 customers didnt saw that statement too, however #3 is delayed.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
-1

Honestly, I'm of a different opinion.
It's enough seeing BFL spit on "the queue" by sending Jalapenos out that were later ordered than other singles/rigs.
Please don't do that too, Avalon. Batch 3 boxes were just ordered first.
Thx 4 reading.

Well guess what, I don't see a written statement that no chips will be delivered before avalon shipments are complete... Neither do I see a clause in the chip shipment information that shipping might be delayed due to delays in other products.
sr. member
Activity: 281
Merit: 250
hero member
Activity: 516
Merit: 500
@Yifu, dont hold back the chips , this have no sense.  Think forward and send the chips.
+1  Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 540
Merit: 250
BestRate.org
@Yifu, dont hold back the chips , this have no sense.  Think forward and send the chips.
full member
Activity: 190
Merit: 100
-1

Honestly, I'm of a different opinion.
It's enough seeing BFL spit on "the queue" by sending Jalapenos out that were later ordered than other singles/rigs.
Please don't do that too, Avalon. Batch 3 boxes were just ordered first.
Thx 4 reading.
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 2535
Goonies never say die.
Ship the chips Yifu!!!!!   Please...  Grin
member
Activity: 92
Merit: 10
I'm wondering where are those million Avalon chips now which were seen on pictures from Hong Kong some weeks ago.

Are they in some warehouse collecting dust?
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
Guys, first in first out is the basic rule. Especially for goods come from same company and will affect each other no matter which is shipped first.
In that logic BFL should stop shipping jalapeno from July before he deliver single from June and make more damage to all.
Avalon not alone in business anymore. If he not deliver chips soon we all lose money...
Maybe that is good for community, next time he must first make chips than sell him...
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
iikun... if you call him you can see that he occassionally clicks away a call. He reads ticket headers but getting an answer is nearly impossible.

Wayne_Chang... i think that is your logic and i dont understand it. I asked for a miner refund because the long delay for batch 3 is so big that i dont believe anymore to get the buying price back. Thats not the case with the chips. I didnt ask for a refund for the chips. I ordered chips because not much can go wrong. Now having the chips delayed because of an independent product isnt ok. It doesnt help the b3- buyers anyway when you see the difficulty. So why should the next group of customers get problems?
Think about it just like we took train from same place to same destination. Your ticket was 1 hour earlier than mine. But the train delayed 1 hour. When the train arrived staition, the conductor let me go first just because you was already delayed but I didn't. Do you think this logic is right or wrong?

The comparison with the trains doesn't work because the comparison is wrong. A better comparison would be if one person arrives via train and the other arrives by plane. The airport misplaces the luggage the passenger had brought along the plane. Is it fair for the airport hub to hold the train arrivals until they find or unload the passengers luggage that was misplaced on the flight. Of course not, the person that traveled by train shouldn't be delayed or penalized.

If the Avalon chips came in for Avalon B3 order and also the Avalon chips for only chip orders, then those should go out ASAP. It's not ethically fair to hold up chips for one group when the chips are ready for both the Avalon units and DIY boards. Whether its a hold up on pcbs, other parts or assembly its not fair for the DIY avalon chip projects out there. This will also have a negative effect on them since the next generation chips will be coming out down the road which also cuts into them as well.

Maybe a good practice would be to return some of the premined Avalon asic income that was generated from testing the units and use those to partially credit B3 people's purchase.

By that metaphor, one assumes that the Batch #3 chips were in fact always intended by Bitsyncom to have been manufactured as part of the mass chip order for the cumulative ordering of all the bulk chips, or that subsequently Bitsyncom has decided it would be prudent to save money in waiting to place one huge chip order to cover all sales, as opposed to a required smaller run specifically for Batch #3. Which at Batch #3's significantly increased price point, priced to meet promised returns from proposed difficulty at a guaranteed delivery date, wayy ahead of the bulk chip delivery, would be a gross misappropriation of Batch #3 buyers' funds.

In essence it looks like Batch #3's chips were manufactured at the exact same time as all the bulk orders, so any proposed price point based on return on investment due to their assumed future difficulty, which at the time never included such massive quantities of bulk chips, was totally false...

Was there a promise that stated in writing that stated Avalon batch 3 units investment would be paid off and if so, in what time frame. That's part of the risk with investing in hardware and supporting the network. It might now always be in ones best interest and ones rate of return might not be as fast as one thought.



Wasn't their entire price point explained by Bitsyncom at the time of order to be based on future difficulty at the time of a guaranteed delivery so ROI could be met in a proposed timeframe preceding any profit from there on after...?

Not sure, but that would be pretty gutsy or irresponsible for a company to promise how long it'd take to pay off their hardware especially because of bitcoins price fluctuation and they had no idea how far BFL was behind and how many they could actually assemble and ship on a daily basis.

If you know of a statement, you should link it as I'd be interested in that.

Either way, I'm way more invested in Bitfury's design than my avalon investment.

Have to admit, I'm not 100% I've seen Biysyncom detail the reasoning behind their pricepoint, it may well have been forum users speculating their reasoning for such pricing, I'll have to dig around, so far from googling 'Avalon Batch 3 pricing', and going through some old emails from being a subscriber to their newsletter at the time, there's this from them w.r.t. B#3 price:

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

The irony being a lacklustre performance in shipping a product they took money for...
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
The concern is that for the Chips people were given a 9-10 week *definitive* timeline.

Chips cannot be refunded - which is clear and most people seem to agree with this that they shouldn't.

Batch 3 is delayed and, incidentally, a refund has been offered.  Any excuse to delay chips beyond batch 3 is absurd and unjustifiable.

You absolutely cannot use a Batch 3 as an excuse to make a 9-10 week lead time something that has a almost 15 week delay - at the minimum.  No one in their right mind will continue doing business on a larger scale with a company that acts so unprofessionally.  Over a 50% delay and not an update - not sure which is worse here.
sr. member
Activity: 317
Merit: 250
GET IN - Smart Ticket Protocol - Live in market!
iikun... if you call him you can see that he occassionally clicks away a call. He reads ticket headers but getting an answer is nearly impossible.

Wayne_Chang... i think that is your logic and i dont understand it. I asked for a miner refund because the long delay for batch 3 is so big that i dont believe anymore to get the buying price back. Thats not the case with the chips. I didnt ask for a refund for the chips. I ordered chips because not much can go wrong. Now having the chips delayed because of an independent product isnt ok. It doesnt help the b3- buyers anyway when you see the difficulty. So why should the next group of customers get problems?
Think about it just like we took train from same place to same destination. Your ticket was 1 hour earlier than mine. But the train delayed 1 hour. When the train arrived staition, the conductor let me go first just because you was already delayed but I didn't. Do you think this logic is right or wrong?

The comparison with the trains doesn't work because the comparison is wrong. A better comparison would be if one person arrives via train and the other arrives by plane. The airport misplaces the luggage the passenger had brought along the plane. Is it fair for the airport hub to hold the train arrivals until they find or unload the passengers luggage that was misplaced on the flight. Of course not, the person that traveled by train shouldn't be delayed or penalized.

If the Avalon chips came in for Avalon B3 order and also the Avalon chips for only chip orders, then those should go out ASAP. It's not ethically fair to hold up chips for one group when the chips are ready for both the Avalon units and DIY boards. Whether its a hold up on pcbs, other parts or assembly its not fair for the DIY avalon chip projects out there. This will also have a negative effect on them since the next generation chips will be coming out down the road which also cuts into them as well.

Maybe a good practice would be to return some of the premined Avalon asic income that was generated from testing the units and use those to partially credit B3 people's purchase.

By that metaphor, one assumes that the Batch #3 chips were in fact always intended by Bitsyncom to have been manufactured as part of the mass chip order for the cumulative ordering of all the bulk chips, or that subsequently Bitsyncom has decided it would be prudent to save money in waiting to place one huge chip order to cover all sales, as opposed to a required smaller run specifically for Batch #3. Which at Batch #3's significantly increased price point, priced to meet promised returns from proposed difficulty at a guaranteed delivery date, wayy ahead of the bulk chip delivery, would be a gross misappropriation of Batch #3 buyers' funds.

In essence it looks like Batch #3's chips were manufactured at the exact same time as all the bulk orders, so any proposed price point based on return on investment due to their assumed future difficulty, which at the time never included such massive quantities of bulk chips, was totally false...

Was there a promise that stated in writing that stated Avalon batch 3 units investment would be paid off and if so, in what time frame. That's part of the risk with investing in hardware and supporting the network. It might now always be in ones best interest and ones rate of return might not be as fast as one thought.



Wasn't their entire price point explained by Bitsyncom at the time of order to be based on future difficulty at the time of a guaranteed delivery so ROI could be met in a proposed timeframe preceding any profit from there on after...?

Not sure, but that would be pretty gutsy or irresponsible for a company to promise how long it'd take to pay off their hardware especially because of bitcoins price fluctuation and they had no idea how far BFL was behind and how many they could actually assemble and ship on a daily basis.

If you know of a statement, you should link it as I'd be interested in that.

Either way, I'm way more invested in Bitfury's design than my avalon investment.
sr. member
Activity: 317
Merit: 250
GET IN - Smart Ticket Protocol - Live in market!
iikun... if you call him you can see that he occassionally clicks away a call. He reads ticket headers but getting an answer is nearly impossible.

Wayne_Chang... i think that is your logic and i dont understand it. I asked for a miner refund because the long delay for batch 3 is so big that i dont believe anymore to get the buying price back. Thats not the case with the chips. I didnt ask for a refund for the chips. I ordered chips because not much can go wrong. Now having the chips delayed because of an independent product isnt ok. It doesnt help the b3- buyers anyway when you see the difficulty. So why should the next group of customers get problems?
Think about it just like we took train from same place to same destination. Your ticket was 1 hour earlier than mine. But the train delayed 1 hour. When the train arrived staition, the conductor let me go first just because you was already delayed but I didn't. Do you think this logic is right or wrong?

The comparison with the trains doesn't work because the comparison is wrong. A better comparison would be if one person arrives via train and the other arrives by plane. The airport misplaces the luggage the passenger had brought along the plane. Is it fair for the airport hub to hold the train arrivals until they find or unload the passengers luggage that was misplaced on the flight. Of course not, the person that traveled by train shouldn't be delayed or penalized.

If the Avalon chips came in for Avalon B3 order and also the Avalon chips for only chip orders, then those should go out ASAP. It's not ethically fair to hold up chips for one group when the chips are ready for both the Avalon units and DIY boards. Whether its a hold up on pcbs, other parts or assembly its not fair for the DIY avalon chip projects out there. This will also have a negative effect on them since the next generation chips will be coming out down the road which also cuts into them as well.

Maybe a good practice would be to return some of the premined Avalon asic income that was generated from testing the units and use those to partially credit B3 people's purchase.
If you guys insist on your logic, how about this.
Bitsyncom comes out 2nd generation wafer, and sold out immediately. Because wafer do not need to do assembly and test, so they ship wafer before your guys' chips or at least paralleled.
How do you think in this way?
Guys, first in first out is the basic rule. Especially for goods come from same company and will affect each other no matter which is shipped first.

As long as all avalon 1st generation chips were shipped and say the next day generation 2 chips came out that were 10 times faster, I'd be ok with that. That's the risk one takes with mining. No where is there a guarantee on paying off ones hardware. If bitcoins ever become worth $1000 each, then all of us have nothing to complain about as long as one holds onto a percentage of there earnings.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
iikun... if you call him you can see that he occassionally clicks away a call. He reads ticket headers but getting an answer is nearly impossible.

Wayne_Chang... i think that is your logic and i dont understand it. I asked for a miner refund because the long delay for batch 3 is so big that i dont believe anymore to get the buying price back. Thats not the case with the chips. I didnt ask for a refund for the chips. I ordered chips because not much can go wrong. Now having the chips delayed because of an independent product isnt ok. It doesnt help the b3- buyers anyway when you see the difficulty. So why should the next group of customers get problems?
Think about it just like we took train from same place to same destination. Your ticket was 1 hour earlier than mine. But the train delayed 1 hour. When the train arrived staition, the conductor let me go first just because you was already delayed but I didn't. Do you think this logic is right or wrong?

The comparison with the trains doesn't work because the comparison is wrong. A better comparison would be if one person arrives via train and the other arrives by plane. The airport misplaces the luggage the passenger had brought along the plane. Is it fair for the airport hub to hold the train arrivals until they find or unload the passengers luggage that was misplaced on the flight. Of course not, the person that traveled by train shouldn't be delayed or penalized.

If the Avalon chips came in for Avalon B3 order and also the Avalon chips for only chip orders, then those should go out ASAP. It's not ethically fair to hold up chips for one group when the chips are ready for both the Avalon units and DIY boards. Whether its a hold up on pcbs, other parts or assembly its not fair for the DIY avalon chip projects out there. This will also have a negative effect on them since the next generation chips will be coming out down the road which also cuts into them as well.

Maybe a good practice would be to return some of the premined Avalon asic income that was generated from testing the units and use those to partially credit B3 people's purchase.

By that metaphor, one assumes that the Batch #3 chips were in fact always intended by Bitsyncom to have been manufactured as part of the mass chip order for the cumulative ordering of all the bulk chips, or that subsequently Bitsyncom has decided it would be prudent to save money in waiting to place one huge chip order to cover all sales, as opposed to a required smaller run specifically for Batch #3. Which at Batch #3's significantly increased price point, priced to meet promised returns from proposed difficulty at a guaranteed delivery date, wayy ahead of the bulk chip delivery, would be a gross misappropriation of Batch #3 buyers' funds.

In essence it looks like Batch #3's chips were manufactured at the exact same time as all the bulk orders, so any proposed price point based on return on investment due to their assumed future difficulty, which at the time never included such massive quantities of bulk chips, was totally false...

Was there a promise that stated in writing that stated Avalon batch 3 units investment would be paid off and if so, in what time frame. That's part of the risk with investing in hardware and supporting the network. It might now always be in ones best interest and ones rate of return might not be as fast as one thought.



Wasn't their entire price point explained by Bitsyncom at the time of order to be based on; a calculated future difficulty, at the time of a guaranteed delivery, so ROI could be met in a proposed timeframe preceding any profit from thereon after...?
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