Drama, laughing at it and when I feel like it steer some up on my own.
Besides, I'm fine with speculating (or more harshly gambling) and do it myself every once in a while.
Topic: You are speculators not investors - page 2. (Read 3511 times)
ElectricMucus, why are you here? If I have a low opinion of something I can tell you the last place you will find me, wasting my time on a discussion forum of that thing.
In summary, everyone who holds any amount of bitcoins for longer than a few moments is, effectively, investing in the bootstrapping event of a global decentralized currency.
ok but that is still not investing it's another use of the metaphor for "investing into my future" buy saving, just the "me" has been substituted for "us".
There is no investment in the literal sense, no value is being created in addition to the value of the fiat put in to buy the bitcoins. There is no return on investment taking place. It's the same thing as buying a gold coin, or any commodity. The gold mining industry benefits from the demand you create such as the bitcoin miners benefit.
There is no conceptual difference between the two things except:
I can't do anything with the Bitcoin except to spend it or keep it. Such as I can't do anything different with cash under my mattress. I even go as far as to say I would "support" the economy of the country issuing the currency the same way you would with your bitcoins and the bitcoin economy. Perhaps a better analogy would be USD reserves held by foreign nations like china, and the concern they might want to dump it some day. Are the Chinese investing in the US then? I don't think so, but perhaps you do.
Anyone cares how to call this "action"? Any difference comes with some other "word"? I am failing to give a f*ck.
I am protecting my investment by calling all bitcoin opponents idiots and willing to fist fight for that matter..... I lied about the fist fighting thing.
I loved the fist fighting part.You made my day, thanks.
Imo There is no real difference apart from the fact that an investment has a better sound to it. An investment sounds more certain to succeed. In both cases you put money in a product to make a profit.
Alright, I'll unwrap the argument assuming it wasn't clear what I meant in the first place:
To invest in something implies that capital is provided to something which, without that capital being provided, wouldn't work as intended.
Your "cash under the mattress" is not an example of that: nobody needs to provide capital to your pile of cash for it to be placed under your mattress.
Disagree with the goal and the way it is pursued or not, but some of us think Bitcoin is already a minor, and will become a major a) medium of exchange and b) store of wealth.
To work as a), liquidity has to be provided. To get near becoming b), wide acceptance, value stability, and some liquidity needs to exist.
In either case, any type of trading and usage activity (short term or long term) furthers the 'liquidity' and 'acceptance' points. Stability is trickier, although I disagree that short term trades necessarily increase volatility.
In summary, everyone who holds any amount of bitcoins for longer than a few moments is, effectively, investing in the bootstrapping event of a global decentralized currency.
To invest in something implies that capital is provided to something which, without that capital being provided, wouldn't work as intended.
Your "cash under the mattress" is not an example of that: nobody needs to provide capital to your pile of cash for it to be placed under your mattress.
Disagree with the goal and the way it is pursued or not, but some of us think Bitcoin is already a minor, and will become a major a) medium of exchange and b) store of wealth.
To work as a), liquidity has to be provided. To get near becoming b), wide acceptance, value stability, and some liquidity needs to exist.
In either case, any type of trading and usage activity (short term or long term) furthers the 'liquidity' and 'acceptance' points. Stability is trickier, although I disagree that short term trades necessarily increase volatility.
In summary, everyone who holds any amount of bitcoins for longer than a few moments is, effectively, investing in the bootstrapping event of a global decentralized currency.
...
Investing implies letting money work in a sense that it is actually utilized by somebody else.
...
Investing implies letting money work in a sense that it is actually utilized by somebody else.
...
I beg to differ. The fiat money invested by late adopters into bitcoins is utilized by early adopters to buy mansions, luxury cars and silverware.
Thus requiring even later adopters to invest fiat into bitcoin, so the late adopters themselves can buy mansions, luxury cars and silverware.
you too.
Providing capital to something in order for that something to be able to perform its intended purpose = investing.
Hence, we're investors.
Hence, we're investors.
If I stuff cash under my mattress it also performs it's intended purpose, it stays there.
You were more entertaining when you were at least trying to make sense. /shrug
Dude, get a freakin' life. Anytime you buy something in the hope it goes up in value you are investing.
I bought a nib Colt Python a few years ago for $2k, the same model is going for over $3k on GB. Did I invest in Colt the company? of course not, they stopped making them years ago. Did I make an investment? you bet your ass, and a good one.
I bought a nib Colt Python a few years ago for $2k, the same model is going for over $3k on GB. Did I invest in Colt the company? of course not, they stopped making them years ago. Did I make an investment? you bet your ass, and a good one.
Yes you "invested" in terms of a metaphor - in your own future.
I grant you that, and in a sense this is also true in terms of "investment" as "saving", like you people are doing with Bitcoins. It's "investment into your future self". It's not a literal meaning, it's more a play of the words kind of thing.
But going from there and coin yourself an investor because of it is where it breaks apart.
I can "invest into" a house, a car, education, kids, a gun, a savings account or bitcoins. That however does not make me an investor it just means I am "investing" into my future by having foresight and plans. The problem with bitcoins however is as long as you even care about the price you are not even "investing" in that sense.
Why not both?
Seriously though, there's arguments to be made for both sides, depending on how you see bitcoin.
I don't even know why we are discussing this, what's the point?
Seriously though, there's arguments to be made for both sides, depending on how you see bitcoin.
I don't even know why we are discussing this, what's the point?
When you buy a rental property you are still investing. You buy the property, find someone to rent it and hopefully receive rent over time to cover your cost of funds less your expenses.
Speculation is something that is more of a gamble. Investing is doing research to determine that the odds are in your favor
Speculation is something that is more of a gamble. Investing is doing research to determine that the odds are in your favor
Dude, get a freakin' life. Anytime you buy something in the hope it goes up in value you are investing.
I bought a nib Colt Python a few years ago for $2k, the same model is going for over $3k on GB. Did I invest in Colt the company? of course not, they stopped making them years ago. Did I make an investment? you bet your ass, and a good one.
I bought a nib Colt Python a few years ago for $2k, the same model is going for over $3k on GB. Did I invest in Colt the company? of course not, they stopped making them years ago. Did I make an investment? you bet your ass, and a good one.
This shit gets old, get your facts straight.
Venture Capitalists do pure investing, they don't want a stake in the company but just effectively giving out a loan.
This op is just brutal.
Please, tell us more "facts."
Quote
In finance, investment is the purchase of an asset or item with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future and be sold at the higher price. It generally does not include deposits with a bank or similar institution. The term investment is usually used when referring to a long-term outlook. This is the opposite of trading or speculation, which are short-term practices involving a much higher degree of risk.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment
/thread
Come on, this is just schmuck bait. I hope this thread is just an example of boredom and nothing else.
There has been a tendency for many to get swept up in the excitement over something that is still very new and full of novelty, compared with what we knew before. For something to be worthy of the title investment, it needs to be worth our time. Many of us who have gotten involved with bitcoin mining have realized that it was a lot harder than we had initially imagined to just barely break even, after investing in equipment that rapidly becomes obsolete. There has to be a better way of investing in this, to make it truly worth our time and effort. Like the difference between investing in Apple stock and simply having invested the same money in Apple computer equipment which has over time become completely obsolete.
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I can't help but snicker to point out that this subtopic is called the Speculation thread not the investors thread.
Now if it said Economics --> Investors then we would have a better point to argue
Now if it said Economics --> Investors then we would have a better point to argue
Nothing wrong w speculating but the replies are funny. Bitcoiners get defensive when someone calls them speculators. LOL
yay!
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