You are speculators not investors - page 3.

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: N12 on June 28, 2014, 05:27:54 PM

So investing in commodities (gold most prominently) is not investing either?

Well there is investing in gold mines.
As far as this self delusion goes I'd say it's the Goldbugs that pretty much started it.

However the answer is more complicated than that, in particular the futures market and how its utilized by gold producers.
But buying physical gold and stashing it is def. not investment.

twiifm

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Nothing wrong w speculating but the replies are funny. Bitcoiners get defensive when someone calls them speculators. LOL

N12

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So investing in commodities (gold most prominently) is not investing either?

ElectricMucus

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I posted that, "Investing implies letting money work in a sense that it is actually utilized by somebody else."
That was the key point, everything else was examples to illustrate my point. When "return on investment" happens has nothing to do with it.

But notice the terminology of ROI and how it is consistent.

twiifm

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Quote from: Raystonn on June 28, 2014, 04:52:28 PM

Quote from: twiifm on June 28, 2014, 04:44:32 PM

Quote from: Raystonn on June 28, 2014, 04:41:06 PM

Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not. Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers. OP has a very narrow view.

He didnt say that. Hes talking about dividend stocks. IPO stocks dont give dividends

IPO stocks?? What? All stocks are first presented to the market as an IPO, or Initial Public Offering. That has nothing to do with dividends. Buyers of an IPO hope for price appreciation so they can see gains in their investment. The same can be said for buyers after the IPO. OP's definition is inconsistent with reality.

Yes companies that just IPOd dont give dividends because theyre in a growth phase

They give dividends later in their maturity. The OP said the dividend part is investment and the valuation is speculative. Nothing inconsistent here

Raystonn

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Quote from: twiifm on June 28, 2014, 04:44:32 PM

Quote from: Raystonn on June 28, 2014, 04:41:06 PM

Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not. Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers. OP has a very narrow view.

He didnt say that. Hes talking about dividend stocks. IPO stocks dont give dividends

IPO stocks?? What? All stocks are first presented to the market as an IPO, or Initial Public Offering. That has nothing to do with dividends. Buyers of an IPO hope for price appreciation so they can see gains in their investment. The same can be said for buyers after the IPO. OP's definition is inconsistent with reality.

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: oda.krell on June 28, 2014, 04:37:15 PM

Providing capital to something in order for that something to be able to perform its intended purpose = investing.

Hence, we're investors.

If I stuff cash under my mattress it also performs it's intended purpose, it stays there.

Quote from: kireinaha on June 28, 2014, 04:45:20 PM

We're participating in a superior currency model which will one day -- in the not too distant future -- free the people of the world from rampant government corruption and crony capitalism. We're all investing our money for a better tomorrow.

lol you see what I mean?

Torque

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Good question. Is bitcoin money? If so, is money an investment? Is my lump of fiat in the bank an investment?

Gold can be seen as a speculative investment (if the desire is for it to go up in value), but what if it doesn't go up in value? Is it still a speculative investment? Or is it just a store of value?

What if I just view my bitcoin as a store of value? Then is it no longer seen as an investment, or a speculation?

Where do zebras get their stripes?

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

If a tree falls in the woods...?

kireinaha

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We're participating in a superior currency model which will one day -- in the not too distant future -- free the people of the world from rampant government corruption and crony capitalism. We're all investing our money for a better tomorrow.

twiifm

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Quote from: Raystonn on June 28, 2014, 04:41:06 PM

Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not. Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers. OP has a very narrow view.

He didnt say that. Hes talking about dividend stocks. IPO stocks dont give dividends

Raystonn

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Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not. Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers. OP has a very narrow view.

Hyena

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on June 28, 2014, 04:31:00 PM

This shit gets old, get your facts straight.

Investing implies letting money work in a sense that it is actually utilized by somebody else. Buying stocks is investing and speculation, the company issuing the stock uses the money and pays out dividends.
That's the investing part.
The actual valuation of the stock is speculation, so for instance the value of a stock can rise but the dividends stay the same, this for example happens with pump & dump penny stocks.

Venture Capitalists do pure investing, they don't want a stake in the company but just effectively giving out a loan.

The obsession with holding and then calling it investing reeks of self delusion on your part.
So hodlers - lets argue.

If you hold then you have invested. If you keep holding while also protecting your investment, you are an investor. I am protecting my investment by calling all bitcoin opponents idiots and willing to fist fight for that matter. Others do it by promoting bitcoin and making what-is-bitcoin videos. We are all investors because we have something to lose and thus -- something to protect. I lied about the fist fighting thing.

oda.krell

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Providing capital to something in order for that something to be able to perform its intended purpose = investing.

Hence, we're investors.

Quote from: ElectricMucus on June 05, 2014, 06:33:37 PM

thread over.

ElectricMucus

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This shit gets old, get your facts straight.

Investing implies letting money work in a sense that it is actually utilized by somebody else. Buying stocks is investing and speculation, the company issuing the stock uses the money and pays out dividends.
That's the investing part.
The actual valuation of the stock is speculation, so for instance the value of a stock can rise but the dividends stay the same, this for example happens with pump & dump penny stocks.

Venture Capitalists do pure investing, they don't want a stake in the company but just effectively giving out a loan.

The obsession with holding and then calling it investing reeks of self delusion on your part.
So hodlers - lets argue.

Topic: You are speculators not investors - page 3. (Read 3511 times)