Topic: You work your butt off, and a rich dude does nothing and gets rich - how? - page 10. (Read 23837 times)
July 18, 2014, 07:13:19 AM
It is easy to criticize fractional reserve banking, but what can you offer instead of it? Communism? Or some deflationary system which doesn't work? (Bitcoin is inflationary)
July 18, 2014, 02:33:24 AM
Well first what do you mean by nothing? If doing nothing entails market trading, it's not easy, you try it and most likely you'll blow it. But the main reason why a rich person doesn't have to work as hard as a lower class is because they hold something that is hard to take away, social capital. Social Capital is the connections you have, which just alone is a powerful device. Social Capital is very easy to convert into Economic Capital which is why the rich don't have to work as hard as lower classes. Social Capital is the reason why the rich concentrate so easily, the more they congregate the more local property prices rise which makes lower class people sell their houses for a quick buck, the lower classes sell their houses to rich which in turn repeats the process. The rich then use high property taxes to make high quality schooling facilities and then send their children to those schools which build social capital and they get rich continuing the process. If the process is interrupted by integrating the public schools with lower class students like in Boston, they will continue the process with Private Schools. Another reason is because when you're born into the lower class, you have to work harder to get out of it, as opposed to being born into the rich. Lastly to end this, rich people still work, although maybe not as hard, they still do, but I will argue those that have the easiest cakewalk are those with Sexual Capital which is something you can't take away and people are born with it.
July 18, 2014, 01:54:54 AM
Simple a controlled rigged economy from the top down. The Central banks on top issuing the money they pull all the stings of the puppet politicians. They have the military and money and that is the answer to your question. No matter how hard you kill yourself you will be in debt is the case for most people on the planet.
While the game is rigged, people who know how the system work slowly climb their way up. It is not a totally close to outsiders game.
July 17, 2014, 11:48:06 PM
Simple a controlled rigged economy from the top down. The Central banks on top issuing the money they pull all the stings of the puppet politicians. They have the military and money and that is the answer to your question. No matter how hard you kill yourself you will be in debt is the case for most people on the planet.
While the game is rigged, people who know how the system work slowly climb their way up. It is not a totally close to outsiders game.
July 17, 2014, 10:14:06 PM
Simple a controlled rigged economy from the top down. The Central banks on top issuing the money they pull all the stings of the puppet politicians. They have the military and money and that is the answer to your question. No matter how hard you kill yourself you will be in debt is the case for most people on the planet.
July 16, 2014, 11:37:51 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-15/immorality-paper-money
One of today’s most common economic fallacies is that the soaring stock market is evidence of economic recovery. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Stocks have almost tripled since the 2008 collapse, but that stock growth stems from Federal Reserve money printing (inflation) and near zero interest rates. The Fed’s balance sheet has grown more than fourfold since 2008 — to $4.3 trillion — and was used to prop up the “too big to fails.” That money had to go somewhere.
It has found its way into the stock market because U.S. Treasuries are paying less than the rate of inflation; and corporate bonds, certificates of deposit and other fixed-income products pay even less. This and price inflation (currency devaluation) is fueling the rise, not positive economic growth or common sense.
Stocks are being bought by the banksters and large corporations. Average people aren’t buying them. A study by the Pew Research Center found fewer than half of all Americans (45 percent) own stocks. The number is down from 65 percent in 2002. Individual investors are cashing in their retirement funds just to survive.
Government printing press money distorts economic reality, dilutes morality and is the true source of “income inequality.” Financial speculation rises with the increase in paper money and the general work ethic deteriorates. The something-for-nothing mentality pervades society.
Paper money promotes the “quick buck” syndrome like narcotics peddling and hookers on the streets. Hookers, incidentally, were widespread in the Weimar Republic in Germany in 1923 because the women had to sell their bodies for food for themselves and their families.
In a paper money society, the social order visibly deteriorates. The morality of the stable gold standard gradually changes to the amorality of fiat. Few people see the cause and effect, and the politicians try to legislate human behavior. They always fail, as the system is overrun with jails and prisons.
Fiat promotes an illusory reality where non-substance like financial speculation and gambling replaces the substance of industrial production and long-term value. When consumption surpasses income, as the government and the politicians promote, distorted human emotions replace stable behavior. Social breakdown increases, and real values are forgotten.
Prices of labor and craftsmen escalate beyond all reason when there is never enough money. Service repairmen charge fees like medical doctors.
When labor and supplies are valued in fiat, everything becomes distorted. In the final stages of hyperinflation, there is no anchor to sanity and common sense.
Paper money expands consumption way beyond income. This eventually guarantees debt collapse and social breakdown. The foundation of the household collapses and the middle class is destroyed. Paper money is an illusion because it is non-substance and can be created by the government to infinity. When the people accept numbers on green strips of paper or computer symbols for money, they accept illusion for reality. They accept non-substance for substance. Real money (gold and silver) comes from the earth and human production. It is no illusion.
As paper currencies come to their end, governments greatly step up suppression of the people. They start foreign wars. They attack their own population with high-sounding hypocrisy. Government makes criminals out of honest men–“in the public interest,” of course.
What follows? Default of the United States? Not formally, but by stealth depreciation of the currency (inflation). Will the U.S. world system hold? Yes, as long as world fear factor dominates as a result of superior military power. But that fear factor seems to be slipping as the elites behind the scenes use Russia and China to create a system outside the dollar.
Sober people (there are a few) understand monetary realism — to wit, that fiat implies stealth (slow) default. No payment is ever intended and is impossible even if intended. The main feature or attribute of sovereign debt default is gradualism.The public cannot grasp gradualism even as they are impoverished. The debt propaganda — that the U.S. owes debt — is a cover for the fiat regime. It’s a hoax! How can the U.S. owe a “debt” when it can print money to infinity?
A fiat paper money regime always becomes autocratic or fascist toward the last days of its existence. This is the time when the state makes war on its own people. Most never know it because it is not announced, but hidden in propaganda within such terms as “for the common good.”
An unlimited supply of paper money buys sophisticated arms that create fear and the propaganda to manipulate the people against their personal freedom and best interest. Fiat paper money is tyranny or becomes tyranny. It guarantees criminal government.
Paper money, personal freedom and privacy are incompatible. Paper money centralizes power to the state and diminishes the individual. This is the first cause of all you see happening. All modern wars are paper money wars. Paper money pays the politicians their lavish profligacy, and they keep their mouths shut about the fiat system.
The only way for true economic growth is by the transfer of services, goods or wealth between people (or businesses) who actually produce something. In other words, if someone provides a service and gets gold or silver (actual wealth) or widgets for compensation, both the service provider and widget maker have benefited and each has something that has bettered his standard of living.
If the one who performed the service uses the widgets to acquire trinkets that help him perform his service, then the service performer has benefited. The trinket maker has also benefited, and he can put the widgets to use. This sort of transfer has worked from the beginning of time, when the farmer took his produce to market, where it was sold or bartered in exchange for wealth, tools, supplies and seeds so he could begin producing food for next year.
But the Fed produces nothing but more paper money, and it takes from the producers. Therefore, its only solution for the collapsing financial system is to steal wealth from the producers of goods and services through taxation and provide more and more fiat money and credit. This can only mean final and complete collapse of the U.S. dollar.
A second and primary concern of the Fed is its control of public perceptions. The Fed must keep the crowd quiet. It positively does not want a panic and run on the banks. The very last thing central banks want is transparency. The vested interest (the paper money crowd) will color the news more and more.
Everyone should be aware of this and move as much as possible out of the dollar.
One of today’s most common economic fallacies is that the soaring stock market is evidence of economic recovery. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Stocks have almost tripled since the 2008 collapse, but that stock growth stems from Federal Reserve money printing (inflation) and near zero interest rates. The Fed’s balance sheet has grown more than fourfold since 2008 — to $4.3 trillion — and was used to prop up the “too big to fails.” That money had to go somewhere.
It has found its way into the stock market because U.S. Treasuries are paying less than the rate of inflation; and corporate bonds, certificates of deposit and other fixed-income products pay even less. This and price inflation (currency devaluation) is fueling the rise, not positive economic growth or common sense.
Stocks are being bought by the banksters and large corporations. Average people aren’t buying them. A study by the Pew Research Center found fewer than half of all Americans (45 percent) own stocks. The number is down from 65 percent in 2002. Individual investors are cashing in their retirement funds just to survive.
Government printing press money distorts economic reality, dilutes morality and is the true source of “income inequality.” Financial speculation rises with the increase in paper money and the general work ethic deteriorates. The something-for-nothing mentality pervades society.
Paper money promotes the “quick buck” syndrome like narcotics peddling and hookers on the streets. Hookers, incidentally, were widespread in the Weimar Republic in Germany in 1923 because the women had to sell their bodies for food for themselves and their families.
In a paper money society, the social order visibly deteriorates. The morality of the stable gold standard gradually changes to the amorality of fiat. Few people see the cause and effect, and the politicians try to legislate human behavior. They always fail, as the system is overrun with jails and prisons.
Fiat promotes an illusory reality where non-substance like financial speculation and gambling replaces the substance of industrial production and long-term value. When consumption surpasses income, as the government and the politicians promote, distorted human emotions replace stable behavior. Social breakdown increases, and real values are forgotten.
Prices of labor and craftsmen escalate beyond all reason when there is never enough money. Service repairmen charge fees like medical doctors.
When labor and supplies are valued in fiat, everything becomes distorted. In the final stages of hyperinflation, there is no anchor to sanity and common sense.
Paper money expands consumption way beyond income. This eventually guarantees debt collapse and social breakdown. The foundation of the household collapses and the middle class is destroyed. Paper money is an illusion because it is non-substance and can be created by the government to infinity. When the people accept numbers on green strips of paper or computer symbols for money, they accept illusion for reality. They accept non-substance for substance. Real money (gold and silver) comes from the earth and human production. It is no illusion.
As paper currencies come to their end, governments greatly step up suppression of the people. They start foreign wars. They attack their own population with high-sounding hypocrisy. Government makes criminals out of honest men–“in the public interest,” of course.
What follows? Default of the United States? Not formally, but by stealth depreciation of the currency (inflation). Will the U.S. world system hold? Yes, as long as world fear factor dominates as a result of superior military power. But that fear factor seems to be slipping as the elites behind the scenes use Russia and China to create a system outside the dollar.
Sober people (there are a few) understand monetary realism — to wit, that fiat implies stealth (slow) default. No payment is ever intended and is impossible even if intended. The main feature or attribute of sovereign debt default is gradualism.The public cannot grasp gradualism even as they are impoverished. The debt propaganda — that the U.S. owes debt — is a cover for the fiat regime. It’s a hoax! How can the U.S. owe a “debt” when it can print money to infinity?
A fiat paper money regime always becomes autocratic or fascist toward the last days of its existence. This is the time when the state makes war on its own people. Most never know it because it is not announced, but hidden in propaganda within such terms as “for the common good.”
An unlimited supply of paper money buys sophisticated arms that create fear and the propaganda to manipulate the people against their personal freedom and best interest. Fiat paper money is tyranny or becomes tyranny. It guarantees criminal government.
Paper money, personal freedom and privacy are incompatible. Paper money centralizes power to the state and diminishes the individual. This is the first cause of all you see happening. All modern wars are paper money wars. Paper money pays the politicians their lavish profligacy, and they keep their mouths shut about the fiat system.
The only way for true economic growth is by the transfer of services, goods or wealth between people (or businesses) who actually produce something. In other words, if someone provides a service and gets gold or silver (actual wealth) or widgets for compensation, both the service provider and widget maker have benefited and each has something that has bettered his standard of living.
If the one who performed the service uses the widgets to acquire trinkets that help him perform his service, then the service performer has benefited. The trinket maker has also benefited, and he can put the widgets to use. This sort of transfer has worked from the beginning of time, when the farmer took his produce to market, where it was sold or bartered in exchange for wealth, tools, supplies and seeds so he could begin producing food for next year.
But the Fed produces nothing but more paper money, and it takes from the producers. Therefore, its only solution for the collapsing financial system is to steal wealth from the producers of goods and services through taxation and provide more and more fiat money and credit. This can only mean final and complete collapse of the U.S. dollar.
A second and primary concern of the Fed is its control of public perceptions. The Fed must keep the crowd quiet. It positively does not want a panic and run on the banks. The very last thing central banks want is transparency. The vested interest (the paper money crowd) will color the news more and more.
Everyone should be aware of this and move as much as possible out of the dollar.
July 04, 2014, 12:08:13 AM
Ozzie, you fail to prove how the banker adding 9% to the money supply makes baker Joe 9% poorer. That math wouldn't even work (let alone the fact that you don't provide the explanation to link the logic).
It's great that you're thinking about and questioning how capitalism works!
One thing I think you're missing is that when baker Joe borrows that $100,000 to go into business and subsequently sell his loaves he creates a new need for goods and services from other businesses in the community. He's helped the bank make money, he helps materials and ingredient suppliers make money, he helps the neighboring stores make money, etc. And all of this extra business is created because he's established his business in the first place.
It is true that it takes money to make money. The best part about capitalism, though, is that no matter how much little money you have you can always make money on it, and then make money on those gains, etc. until you've reached a level of wealth you aspire to. And the motivation for all of us should be that the more money we have working for us the more money we can make...it's like a snowball rolling down a hill.
Ok, please explain to us all why when you or I run a money printing press, the fed police will arrest us immediately. Thanks. Then I'll answer you. It's great that you're thinking about and questioning how capitalism works!
One thing I think you're missing is that when baker Joe borrows that $100,000 to go into business and subsequently sell his loaves he creates a new need for goods and services from other businesses in the community. He's helped the bank make money, he helps materials and ingredient suppliers make money, he helps the neighboring stores make money, etc. And all of this extra business is created because he's established his business in the first place.
It is true that it takes money to make money. The best part about capitalism, though, is that no matter how much little money you have you can always make money on it, and then make money on those gains, etc. until you've reached a level of wealth you aspire to. And the motivation for all of us should be that the more money we have working for us the more money we can make...it's like a snowball rolling down a hill.
The Fed doesn't have printing presses. You're thinking of the Treasury.
What do mean you can't create money like a bank? What the hell is an ozziecoin then?
July 03, 2014, 11:55:27 PM
Ozzie, you fail to prove how the banker adding 9% to the money supply makes baker Joe 9% poorer. That math wouldn't even work (let alone the fact that you don't provide the explanation to link the logic).
It's great that you're thinking about and questioning how capitalism works!
One thing I think you're missing is that when baker Joe borrows that $100,000 to go into business and subsequently sell his loaves he creates a new need for goods and services from other businesses in the community. He's helped the bank make money, he helps materials and ingredient suppliers make money, he helps the neighboring stores make money, etc. And all of this extra business is created because he's established his business in the first place.
It is true that it takes money to make money. The best part about capitalism, though, is that no matter how much little money you have you can always make money on it, and then make money on those gains, etc. until you've reached a level of wealth you aspire to. And the motivation for all of us should be that the more money we have working for us the more money we can make...it's like a snowball rolling down a hill.
Ok, please explain to us all why when you or I run a money printing press, the fed police will arrest us immediately. Thanks. Then I'll answer you. It's great that you're thinking about and questioning how capitalism works!
One thing I think you're missing is that when baker Joe borrows that $100,000 to go into business and subsequently sell his loaves he creates a new need for goods and services from other businesses in the community. He's helped the bank make money, he helps materials and ingredient suppliers make money, he helps the neighboring stores make money, etc. And all of this extra business is created because he's established his business in the first place.
It is true that it takes money to make money. The best part about capitalism, though, is that no matter how much little money you have you can always make money on it, and then make money on those gains, etc. until you've reached a level of wealth you aspire to. And the motivation for all of us should be that the more money we have working for us the more money we can make...it's like a snowball rolling down a hill.
July 03, 2014, 07:17:11 PM
July 03, 2014, 07:07:20 PM
Ozzie, you fail to prove how the banker adding 9% to the money supply makes baker Joe 9% poorer. That math wouldn't even work (let alone the fact that you don't provide the explanation to link the logic).
It's great that you're thinking about and questioning how capitalism works!
One thing I think you're missing is that when baker Joe borrows that $100,000 to go into business and subsequently sell his loaves he creates a new need for goods and services from other businesses in the community. He's helped the bank make money, he helps materials and ingredient suppliers make money, he helps the neighboring stores make money, etc. And all of this extra business is created because he's established his business in the first place.
It is true that it takes money to make money. The best part about capitalism, though, is that no matter how much little money you have you can always make money on it, and then make money on those gains, etc. until you've reached a level of wealth you aspire to. And the motivation for all of us should be that the more money we have working for us the more money we can make...it's like a snowball rolling down a hill.
It's great that you're thinking about and questioning how capitalism works!
One thing I think you're missing is that when baker Joe borrows that $100,000 to go into business and subsequently sell his loaves he creates a new need for goods and services from other businesses in the community. He's helped the bank make money, he helps materials and ingredient suppliers make money, he helps the neighboring stores make money, etc. And all of this extra business is created because he's established his business in the first place.
It is true that it takes money to make money. The best part about capitalism, though, is that no matter how much little money you have you can always make money on it, and then make money on those gains, etc. until you've reached a level of wealth you aspire to. And the motivation for all of us should be that the more money we have working for us the more money we can make...it's like a snowball rolling down a hill.
July 03, 2014, 06:37:32 PM
Hello fellow slaves. Here, have some truth. It's free, unlike most things in capitalism, which have first been stolen from you so they can then be sold to you at an unfair price by those who believe themselves to be your masters by right of might.
The biggest scam in history.
The American Dream.
George Carlin - The American Dream
Wealth inequality in America.
Newsnight: Paxman vs. Brand - Full interview
Capitalism hits the fan
Bitcoin vs. political power
Dead dollar walking.
Alternative economy cultures.
The end of poverty.
Capitalism is the crisis.
On climate change. The capitalist elite caste have already destroyed our lives to get what they want: more for themselves and less for everybody else. Do you really believe they won't also wreck this planet to keep their lives of luxury ?
Don't be naive. These people are sociopaths, every last one. This is our future if we let them keep their power:
Slums for the 99%, luxury condos for the elite caste. Neo-feudalism at its finest.
The biggest scam in history.
The American Dream.
George Carlin - The American Dream
Wealth inequality in America.
Newsnight: Paxman vs. Brand - Full interview
Capitalism hits the fan
Bitcoin vs. political power
Dead dollar walking.
Alternative economy cultures.
The end of poverty.
Capitalism is the crisis.
On climate change. The capitalist elite caste have already destroyed our lives to get what they want: more for themselves and less for everybody else. Do you really believe they won't also wreck this planet to keep their lives of luxury ?
Many people have earned their way "to doing nothing."
Sure they have. Don't be naive. These people are sociopaths, every last one. This is our future if we let them keep their power:
Slums for the 99%, luxury condos for the elite caste. Neo-feudalism at its finest.
July 03, 2014, 11:05:01 AM
Video explaining where money comes from:
...
...
Well son, when two people love each other ... very much ... they get together and uhm...
July 03, 2014, 02:00:57 AM
Many people have earned their way "to doing nothing." The goal should always be to build your business to the point where you need to distribute some of the responsibilities to others so that you can either start building something else, or just become the rainmaker. This applies to sales businesses at least.
Please refer to first page. 
July 03, 2014, 01:39:18 AM
Many people have earned their way "to doing nothing." The goal should always be to build your business to the point where you need to distribute some of the responsibilities to others so that you can either start building something else, or just become the rainmaker. This applies to sales businesses at least.
July 02, 2014, 11:42:03 PM
June 24, 2014, 11:24:53 PM
I think it should be pretty clear by now that the existing financial system allows investors to invest in assets for speculative reasons and not productive reasons.
I.E. It is easier for a bank to lend for property than for a factory.
This is why, in the UK, only 8% of lending is going towards productive purposes:
I.E. It is easier for a bank to lend for property than for a factory.
This is why, in the UK, only 8% of lending is going towards productive purposes:
Quote
Over the last 15 years the banks have used their power to create money to pump hundreds of billions of pounds into the property market (as shown by the increase in the categories “Lending to real estate” and “Secured lending to individuals” below). This has pushed the price of housing out of reach of ordinary people. Lending to the finance sector has also increased greatly over the past 15 years; this sector includes the companies that were involved in much of the reckless speculation which contributed to the crisis.
Meanwhile, lending to businesses has stagnated, harming the real economy and lowering employment and growth.
Meanwhile, lending to businesses has stagnated, harming the real economy and lowering employment and growth.
Price of property is governed by rental yield and return of investment. Investors investing in property while ignoring yield and hoping for capital gain is not that much different than gambling and participating in a ponzi scheme.
June 24, 2014, 10:19:43 PM
I think it should be pretty clear by now that the existing financial system allows investors to invest in assets for speculative reasons and not productive reasons.
I.E. It is easier for a bank to lend for property than for a factory.
This is why, in the UK, only 8% of lending is going towards productive purposes:
I.E. It is easier for a bank to lend for property than for a factory.
This is why, in the UK, only 8% of lending is going towards productive purposes:
Quote
Over the last 15 years the banks have used their power to create money to pump hundreds of billions of pounds into the property market (as shown by the increase in the categories “Lending to real estate” and “Secured lending to individuals” below). This has pushed the price of housing out of reach of ordinary people. Lending to the finance sector has also increased greatly over the past 15 years; this sector includes the companies that were involved in much of the reckless speculation which contributed to the crisis.
Meanwhile, lending to businesses has stagnated, harming the real economy and lowering employment and growth.
Meanwhile, lending to businesses has stagnated, harming the real economy and lowering employment and growth.
June 24, 2014, 11:11:32 AM
Rich guys are just smarter then you, That's all!
i know alot of rich guys, and they are dumb as brick wall.
reason they have money is that it takes money to make money.
then you hire people to work for you, pay them 60% of what u were paid for the job and thats it.
you can do this infinite number of times, because you are not working, and you have your entire time free, unlike workers that loose entire day due to their jobs.
Investor gets reward by taking risk. Labor get paid by contributing their skill and time and not taking any financial risk.
If investing to get rich is that easier, everyone would be doing it right now.
June 24, 2014, 06:32:03 AM
Rich guys are just smarter then you, That's all!
i know alot of rich guys, and they are dumb as brick wall.
reason they have money is that it takes money to make money.
then you hire people to work for you, pay them 60% of what u were paid for the job and thats it.
you can do this infinite number of times, because you are not working, and you have your entire time free, unlike workers that loose entire day due to their jobs.
June 24, 2014, 12:10:25 AM
It's because you need money to make more money. When you have more money, you can also have your money working for you (i.e. investments).
When you are living paycheck to paycheck, you basically feel like you are working your tail off, just to keep your head barely above water.
When you are living paycheck to paycheck, you basically feel like you are working your tail off, just to keep your head barely above water.
This argument could be true if you're working at Walmart and have three kids to feed, but for most people it isn't. Wealthier people are not wealthy just because they have money but many have traits conductive to being wealthy, such as patience. Quite a considerable portion of the world's billionaires owe their wealth due to being buy and hold investors, yes even when they were middle class or poor.
Just think of all the BTC guys who panic sold after making $10K, $100K or $1 million.
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