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Kprawn

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1074

The problem is.. if they are running free trial versions {proven or not} it would expire in due time and that would compromise the security of the network that are already devided in two.

You cannot run real hashing power over a fake network that does not exist after a couple of months. Angry

The strong point of the Bitcoin network was always it's huge total hashing power and it's decentralized nature. To spoof such a network with free trial VM software is just crazy.

You win the race, but you lose the war.

Soros Shorts

donator

Activity: 1617

Merit: 1012

Quote from: Liquid71 on August 24, 2015, 10:17:09 PM

Quote from: jabo38 on August 24, 2015, 12:49:21 PM

to get 75% power there are only about 10 nodes that matter, 15 if you want to be really generous. Either XT gets the support of those 10 nodes or it doesn't.

the other 5000 nodes are just helping to spread out transactions, which is actually what nodes should be doing. virtual servers or on somebody's box at home with high speed, it is almost always a plus for the network unless they are on some really old hardware and really slow dial up and is faulty in other ways then it hurts the network. VPNs hosting XT are none of those things.

If the nodes ignored blocks broadcast from the pools mining the altcoin XT wouldn't that increase orphan rate for those pools?

It may, but I would imagine that the XT miners could easily make direct connections to one another to lessen this problem. Besides XT blocks are no longer competing with core blocks at this point in time, and it is best for XT and core nodes to only connect to other nodes of the same kind. After the fork, it would be a waste of network resources for an XT node to connect to core node (or vice versa) because nothing useful can be exchanged over the connection.

Liquid71

hero member

Activity: 835

Merit: 1000

There is NO Freedom without Privacy

Quote from: jabo38 on August 24, 2015, 12:49:21 PM

to get 75% power there are only about 10 nodes that matter, 15 if you want to be really generous. Either XT gets the support of those 10 nodes or it doesn't.

the other 5000 nodes are just helping to spread out transactions, which is actually what nodes should be doing. virtual servers or on somebody's box at home with high speed, it is almost always a plus for the network unless they are on some really old hardware and really slow dial up and is faulty in other ways then it hurts the network. VPNs hosting XT are none of those things.

If the nodes ignored blocks broadcast from the pools mining the altcoin XT wouldn't that increase orphan rate for those pools?

jabo38

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1001

mining is so 2012-2013

to get 75% power there are only about 10 nodes that matter, 15 if you want to be really generous. Either XT gets the support of those 10 nodes or it doesn't.

the other 5000 nodes are just helping to spread out transactions, which is actually what nodes should be doing. virtual servers or on somebody's box at home with high speed, it is almost always a plus for the network unless they are on some really old hardware and really slow dial up and is faulty in other ways then it hurts the network. VPNs hosting XT are none of those things.

arnuschky

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 502

Quote from: miguelmorales85 on August 24, 2015, 10:45:38 AM

Quote from: ticoti on August 20, 2015, 05:33:52 PM

What are the proofs of the statement that you say?
how can you see they are virtual servers?

I have the same questions.

There is no proof and even if you would know it's meaningless:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12172863

turvarya

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: miguelmorales85 on August 24, 2015, 10:45:38 AM

Quote from: ticoti on August 20, 2015, 05:33:52 PM

What are the proofs of the statement that you say?
how can you see they are virtual servers?

I have the same questions.

I guess you can see if it is a virtual server, when you just look at the IP-address. turtlehurrican isn't known for providing proof, but claiming he made some research and just publish the "results".

If it is really a free trial can not be proven, unless either the trial runs out, or somebody admits to have done it, which already happened from people who thought they could prove a point with that(the only point I see proven is, that they have too many spare time)

miguelmorales85

hero member

Activity: 544

Merit: 507

Quote from: ticoti on August 20, 2015, 05:33:52 PM

What are the proofs of the statement that you say?
how can you see they are virtual servers?

I have the same questions.

ticoti

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1000

What are the proofs of the statement that you say?
how can you see they are virtual servers?

crazywack

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1000

How long till the free subscriptions are up?

VeritasSapere

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: Scamalert on August 20, 2015, 04:35:30 PM

Quote from: turtlehurricane on August 18, 2015, 05:28:57 AM

I undertook the painstaking effort of seeing how many virtual servers/cloud servers were being used as nodes for Bitcoin XT, since the node # rose alot the past few days. No less than 250 nodes are virtual servers from Amazon, Microsoft, Digital Ocean, etc. Seems like almost every company that offers free trials has at least a handful of Bitcoin XT servers. There might be quite a bit more since I didn't have time to research all the different companies.

So 40+ % of Bitcoin XT nodes are definitely virtual servers, they're trying to inflate their numbers to appear credible. Free virtual servers have little power so they're obviously not mining, and won't help Bitcoin XT gain ability to take over the network. The only thing they do is create an illusion.

https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=/Bitcoin%20XT:0.11.0/

I knew it, does XT guys cannot be trusted.
There is something fishy going on here.
Thank you for a great post.

If you read the rest of the thread you would understand that there is nothing fishy about this. This is how Bitcoin has always worked, there is nothing wrong with hosting a full node on a virtual server, if anything this is a good thing.

Scamalert

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Captain

Quote from: turtlehurricane on August 18, 2015, 05:28:57 AM

I undertook the painstaking effort of seeing how many virtual servers/cloud servers were being used as nodes for Bitcoin XT, since the node # rose alot the past few days. No less than 250 nodes are virtual servers from Amazon, Microsoft, Digital Ocean, etc. Seems like almost every company that offers free trials has at least a handful of Bitcoin XT servers. There might be quite a bit more since I didn't have time to research all the different companies.

So 40+ % of Bitcoin XT nodes are definitely virtual servers, they're trying to inflate their numbers to appear credible. Free virtual servers have little power so they're obviously not mining, and won't help Bitcoin XT gain ability to take over the network. The only thing they do is create an illusion.

https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=/Bitcoin%20XT:0.11.0/

I knew it, does XT guys cannot be trusted.
There is something fishy going on here.
Thank you for a great post.

nibor

sr. member

Activity: 438

Merit: 291

Is this post for or against a larger block size? Seems to be for a larger block size to me.

The main argument against larger blocks is that the "community" could not run full nodes if the block size was increased. (Other being smaller blocks force higher fees so pay for miners - but fees even now are less than 1% of miner subsidy - so no miner is going to stop if they dropped to zero).

If however a "free vm" can run the current blockchain seems likely that many in the "community" could afford an 8 fold increase in the cost of running a node.

sAt0sHiFanClub

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

Quote from: ChetnotAtkins on August 20, 2015, 03:54:44 PM

satoshifanclub, beside your need for continued personal attacks, your motives in this debate are clearly visible.

Surprisingly his history is full of shorting Bitcoin, so for satoshifanclub at least, his motive to support XT is obviously to cause as much FUD as possible to increase the chances of a price drop.

Meh, its a living. Better than being outed as a duplicitous fraud though. Cool

Any joy with asking the devs to block malicious nodes? No? Tool.

VeritasSapere

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: ChetnotAtkins on August 20, 2015, 03:21:29 PM

XT has an unreliable node count because of NotBitcoinXT

XT uses artificial urgency created by Coinwallet.eu 'stress testing' the network

XT relies on manipulative rhetorics and lack of technical understanding of it's supporters

XT plans to divide the network by causing a maximum amount of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

This movement of Bitcoin's low intellectual class has to be stopped in it's track before it drives away even more users.
Yes. Stop XT!

It is ironic that you are accusing XT supporters of manipulative rhetoric when that is exactly what you are doing here. Since the only real argument you are presenting here is that we should not adopt XT because of NotBitcoinXT which I consider to be a malicious attack on the network by the supporters of Core. Any attempt at trying to stop a hard fork in this way can be considered as an attempt to hijack Bitcoin from the people to whom it belongs to. A hard fork is the only mechanism that Bitcoin has to keep the core development team in check.

Please present me with real arguments so that I can learn from your perspective, or it would be even better if you attempted to rebuttal some of the arguments I have already presented here in this thread. That would be more convincing and intellectual in nature. Since you are here saying that we must stop this “low intellectual class” by stopping XT? Which is also not really an argument and therefore also not very convincing.

ChetnotAtkins

full member

Activity: 131

Merit: 101

satoshifanclub, beside your need for continued personal attacks, your motives in this debate are clearly visible.

Surprisingly his history is full of shorting Bitcoin, so for satoshifanclub at least, his motive to support XT is obviously to cause as much FUD as possible to increase the chances of a price drop.

sAt0sHiFanClub

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

Quote from: ChetnotAtkins on August 20, 2015, 03:21:29 PM

XT has an unreliable node count because of NotBitcoinXT

XT uses artificial urgency created by Coinwallet.eu 'stress testing' the network

XT relies on manipulative rhetorics and lack of technical understanding of it's supporters

XT plans to divide the network by causing a maximum amount of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

This movement of Bitcoin's low intellectual class has to be stopped in it's track before it drives away even more users.
Yes. Stop XT!

Straight out of chairman maos red book. good grief. Grin

Blockstream - The Gathering

ChetnotAtkins

full member

Activity: 131

Merit: 101

XT has an unreliable node count because of NotBitcoinXT

XT uses artificial urgency created by Coinwallet.eu 'stress testing' the network

XT relies on manipulative rhetorics and lack of technical understanding of it's supporters

XT plans to divide the network by causing a maximum amount of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

This movement of Bitcoin's low intellectual class has to be stopped in it's track before it drives away even more users.
Yes. Stop XT!

sAt0sHiFanClub

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

Quote from: VeritasSapere on August 20, 2015, 01:47:32 PM

Quote from: coinableS on August 19, 2015, 09:03:07 PM

I posted a few days ago that these XT nodes are likely "fake" and they will likely drop off in a short time. They are not veteran nodes switching over to XT but newcomers launching XT nodes because it's popular right now. XT supporters launched fake transaction volume to fill the blocks and they launch fake nodes. The real bitcoin will prevail.

Just so you know that these fake XT nodes are being put up by Core supporters. This does constitute an attack on the network and is in fact a horrible and incredible irresponsible thing to do, trying to make it so that a fork is impossible is the equivalent of hijacking Bitcoin.

We should not think that we must have the consensus of the core developers if that consensus becomes impossible to reach, since that is tantamount to centralization of power. The ability to hard fork in this way represents the check that we have against such power that a core development team could hold. This is part of what makes Bitcoin truly so decentralized. If you think that we should never hard fork it is the equivalent of saying that the core developers have absolute power over the development of the Bitcoin protocol. Or as Mike Hearn said "they believe that the only mechanism that Bitcoin has to keep them in check should never be used". That is why we must fork, for now the only alternative to Core is XT, and for as long as that is the case i will choose XT. Even if it is a choice between the lesser of two evils.

The motives of any cause that feels it is justified in advocating the use of a piece of software to subvert a network should be questioned, and questioned closely.

But like all bullies, they only act out of fear - fear of what they cant control.

sAt0sHiFanClub

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

Quote from: coinableS on August 19, 2015, 09:03:07 PM

I posted a few days ago that these XT nodes are likely "fake" and they will likely drop off in a short time. They are not veteran nodes switching over to XT but newcomers launching XT nodes because it's popular right now. XT supporters launched fake transaction volume to fill the blocks and they launch fake nodes. The real bitcoin will prevail.

You think that is all? Remember that guy who supposedly walked on the moon? Nah. XT supporters... #blockstreamrekt Grin

meono

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: Slark on August 20, 2015, 01:50:47 PM

Quote from: knight22 on August 19, 2015, 11:29:21 AM

BitcoinXT won't fork until it reaches a super majority. Until then it uses the same blockchain and there is no fork. Stop acting like this :

Praise the Lord for that. Judging current situation with XT, unknown code properties possible ability to blacklist bitcoin users disguised ad DoS protection system etc.
I think there is no way that XT nodes will ever reach majority. Some serious changes in the code of XT needs to be done before that.

Forget your stupidity to believe the FUD ...

If the proposed chain is adopted by majority then thats what it matters. BitcoinXT will continue being an alternative client if majority nodes arent XT nodes.

What matters is the chain proposal is a success.

BIP101 is what we want you can merge it into any wallet client you like.

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