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Topic: ... - page 19. (Read 61015 times)

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
August 24, 2015, 12:50:57 PM

That yes/no image is incorrect.
If core is the longest chain and someone is stupid enough to mine an XT block that core doesn't allow, then all XT nodes will follow the XT block fork.
Thus if core continues to be the longest chain (which it will) then XT clients will not follow the longest chain possibly until later.

That would only 'be useful' if people were ready to double-spend the shit out of inputs to the doomed block.

Someone who cares enough might set up a system which keeps an eye out for XT fork double-spend opportunities and gives those who can capitalize a timely informational saying that their opportunity had arrived.

Previous similar situations (like the BDB fork) resulted in only a few screw-jobs which people were willing to absorb.  If there were many more of these and they were undertaken deliberately, it might creates such a cluster-fuck that Hearn would feel justified in just forking XT (with his 'checkpointing' if necessary) rather than to try to clean up the mess.

To understand why I would welcome such a thing, one needs to understand that I see a fair amount of utility in having an XT fork which siphoned off a sizable number of 'bitcoiners' who are deeply ignorant about the principles of the system and are mostly MultiBitch-class users who add no value.  They'd stop even being users if their transactions were not deeply subsidized anyway, and the only way that is sustainable is if large corporates took over infrastructure operation.  I say let Hearn have them...their loss would only strengthen Bitcoin.

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
August 24, 2015, 11:31:14 AM
i hope all these crazy arguments about bitcoin XT and core ends faster because it is starting to hurt bitcoin more than helping it.

I agree, it makes btc look too "fringe" and I think it will alienate new people from thinking about acquiring any btc.  In 6 months from now, if the network can get any stronger/faster/more secure, then it may help, but hopefully by then the damage isn't already done.

in 6 months from now if we are still having the same debate on XT or core then I don't bitcoin can survive it any longer.

Bitcoin is anthropobullshit resistant. It will survive us all.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1163
Where is my ring of blades...
August 24, 2015, 11:26:36 AM
i hope all these crazy arguments about bitcoin XT and core ends faster because it is starting to hurt bitcoin more than helping it.

I agree, it makes btc look too "fringe" and I think it will alienate new people from thinking about acquiring any btc.  In 6 months from now, if the network can get any stronger/faster/more secure, then it may help, but hopefully by then the damage isn't already done.

in 6 months from now if we are still having the same debate on XT or core then I don't bitcoin can survive it any longer.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
August 24, 2015, 11:21:20 AM
the TOR PROJECT has clearly stated a NO BACKDOORS policy.

i think this is also a basic fundamental part of bitcoin or should be for it to survive.

/\BTCXT will have widespread support by Wall Street types because of its' enhanced tracking mechanisms.

Two coins is not a bad thing.

;^)

*eZ^$$$

lol... where do you see enhanced tracking?
another fudster Wink
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
August 24, 2015, 11:12:33 AM
the TOR PROJECT has clearly stated a NO BACKDOORS policy.

i think this is also a basic fundamental part of bitcoin or should be for it to survive.

/\BTCXT will have widespread support by Wall Street types because of its' enhanced tracking mechanisms.

Two coins is not a bad thing.

;^)

*eZ^$$$
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
August 24, 2015, 09:54:31 AM
So, I was away for 3 days and it seems like nothing has changed.


Have you seen this?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bitcoin-xt/PBjK0BuB7s4/8LREpcaNBQAJ

Quote from: Mike Hearn
Now, to your wider question. XT is about more than just the block size limit. If you look at Core, they have also decided they don't like unconfirmed transactions and P2P smartphone wallets. They blocked improvements for a long time already and are now preparing to delete support for P2P lightweight wallets entirely.

Wow, seriously?
Was there a response from the Core Devs? That seems like a big allegation too me.
So, I was away for 3 days and it seems like nothing has changed.
Has anybody actually analyzed the code or are we still talking about some comments in BitcoinXT, which are also in Bitcoin Core?

There some who already inspected the code and "may" have found out that there are some codes in there that may be harmful to the end user in case XT is favored by the majority of the bitcoin users. I am not a pro in codes, but upon reading this thread, I don't know what version of bitcoin should I choose: core or XT. I'll remain neutral until this commotion is settled, but as I see it, I doubt it will get resolved sooner.
Could you maybe point me to it? All I have seen so far, was about comments, variable names, code that is never executed and code that is also in Bitcoin Core.
I don't get, what is so hard, to just show the bad scenario that could happen. Somebody could just describe, which functions calls which and what the result would be in the end and someone like me, who is a programmer, but not that deep into Bitcoin Core/XT, could easily verify it for them self.
Unless it is just not there and people prefer to spread FUD.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
August 24, 2015, 09:50:12 AM
So, I was away for 3 days and it seems like nothing has changed.


Have you seen this?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bitcoin-xt/PBjK0BuB7s4/8LREpcaNBQAJ

Quote from: Mike Hearn
Now, to your wider question. XT is about more than just the block size limit. If you look at Core, they have also decided they don't like unconfirmed transactions and P2P smartphone wallets. They blocked improvements for a long time already and are now preparing to delete support for P2P lightweight wallets entirely.


Dont take shit out of context,\


Quote from: Mike Hearn

....
Obviously neither feature is required for some kind of rarely used settlement network, which is their vision. But they are rather important for the actual Bitcoin network we have today.

Their wildly different (incorrect) vision and the general way they treat volunteer developers, means lots of people who would have contributed to the Bitcoin project haven't done so, or did and then stopped. I'm one, Gavin is one, Thomas Zander is also one.

As you can see from the pull requests queue and chatter on this list, suddenly people are coming out of the woodwork with patches that aren't anything to do with bigger blocks, they're just stuff that was rejected for questionable or outright spurious reasons by the Bitcoin Core project. So now there's a chance for a re-review under a different development philosophy.

hero member
Activity: 722
Merit: 500
August 24, 2015, 09:40:50 AM
So, I was away for 3 days and it seems like nothing has changed.


Have you seen this?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bitcoin-xt/PBjK0BuB7s4/8LREpcaNBQAJ

Quote from: Mike Hearn
Now, to your wider question. XT is about more than just the block size limit. If you look at Core, they have also decided they don't like unconfirmed transactions and P2P smartphone wallets. They blocked improvements for a long time already and are now preparing to delete support for P2P lightweight wallets entirely.

legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1352
August 24, 2015, 09:37:20 AM
So, I was away for 3 days and it seems like nothing has changed.
Has anybody actually analyzed the code or are we still talking about some comments in BitcoinXT, which are also in Bitcoin Core?

There some who already inspected the code and "may" have found out that there are some codes in there that may be harmful to the end user in case XT is favored by the majority of the bitcoin users. I am not a pro in codes, but upon reading this thread, I don't know what version of bitcoin should I choose: core or XT. I'll remain neutral until this commotion is settled, but as I see it, I doubt it will get resolved sooner.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
August 24, 2015, 09:29:24 AM
i hope all these crazy arguments about bitcoin XT and core ends faster because it is starting to hurt bitcoin more than helping it.

I agree, it makes btc look too "fringe" and I think it will alienate new people from thinking about acquiring any btc.  In 6 months from now, if the network can get any stronger/faster/more secure, then it may help, but hopefully by then the damage isn't already done.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
August 24, 2015, 09:27:05 AM
So, I was away for 3 days and it seems like nothing has changed.
Has anybody actually analyzed the code or are we still talking about some comments in BitcoinXT, which are also in Bitcoin Core?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 509
I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!
August 24, 2015, 09:06:57 AM

Tor exit nodes are automatically downloaded which is a bad thing and Tor exit nodes IPs have lower priority.

Not ideal, but not necessarily a bad thing. It will only occur if you are running your node in the open - in which case you are broadcasting your iP address anyway.

If you are running behind a proxy, then the download doesn't occur at all, and no attempt is made to intervene in possible dDos attacks.

What about preventing Tor network usage? Still not a bad thing?
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1137
August 24, 2015, 08:34:08 AM
i hope all these crazy arguments about bitcoin XT and core ends faster because it is starting to hurt bitcoin more than helping it.
hero member
Activity: 722
Merit: 500
August 24, 2015, 08:45:11 AM
i hope all these crazy arguments about bitcoin XT and core ends faster because it is starting to hurt bitcoin more than helping it.

It's only just started.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3i6krb/mike_hearn_summarizes_how_vision_in_bitcoin_core/
legendary
Activity: 4634
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
August 24, 2015, 08:43:05 AM

Cartoons and graphics sometimes say more than thousand words.
Today I found the truth table in the cyberspace. Wink

http://i.imgur.com/HOT1XfX.png

paging icebreaker for immediate application of the MP-RDF. These truths cannot be left unFUDed in public!
That yes/no image is incorrect.
If core is the longest chain and someone is stupid enough to mine an XT block that core doesn't allow, then all XT nodes will follow the XT block fork.
Thus if core continues to be the longest chain (which it will) then XT clients will not follow the longest chain possibly until later.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
August 24, 2015, 08:27:29 AM

Cartoons and graphics sometimes say more than thousand words.
Today I found the truth table in the cyberspace. Wink



paging icebreaker for immediate application of the MP-RDF. These truths cannot be left unFUDed in public!

Following the longest chain isn't the same as following the longest *valid* chain.

Bitcoin gave its first movers tremendous advantages.  XT gives its first movers tremendous disadvantages.

Defect from the socioeconomic majority at your peril.   Tongue

I've realised that taking your posts seriously was the problem. I find them much better now I view them as light entertainment. I can't believe I was so naive as to fall for it before! Still we can't always be perfect Smiley

talking about your post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/prediction-next-spike-560000-14-oops-months-from-now-2017-update-800330

noob. Roll Eyes

To talk about my post you have to first read it (beyond the title that is specifically designed to catch out simpletons) and then understand it. You are going to struggle with that second part I can tell.

oh and its "n00b!"

yea well, i dont have to read it, just the same as you dont qualify to juge what is to be done with bitcoin on a technical/development level, so just keep speculating and make a fool out of yourself in public. that you seem to be good at.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
August 24, 2015, 08:26:51 AM
No wonder you exhibit such self loathing then, you cheat and lie your way through nary every exchange you've conducted on this forum for several years. Several. Years. Will you eventually hit adulthood?

Quite a feat there since I only became aware of bitcoin  around Nov/2013.  That is 1 year and 10 months ago, barely.  So who is lying?  Grin

Quote
Get your story straight Jorge, you were claiming that Blockstream was a centralising influence not long ago. When decentralisation is manifest, you attack that. When centralisation is the only valid solution, you attack that too.

I am pretty convinced that Blockstream tried, and is still trying, to centralize control of software development.  It would be quite a bit of coincidence, don't you think, that they hired most of the Core developers:  Adam Back (President), Greg Maxwell, Pieter Wuille, Matt Corallo, Mark Friedenbach, Rusty Russell, Patrick "Intersango" Strateman, Jorge Timón, and Glen Willen. There may be others. Luke "Tonal" Jr works for Blockstream as contractor.  Do you think that they would be happy to see some other implementation become the reference one?

Sidechains were not intended to centralize development on Blockstream.  Their stated goal was to allow experimentation with different protocols and service models without the need of changes to bitcoin itself.  Their unstated goal was basically political, namey to protect bitcoin from the threat of being superseded by an altcoin.  The hope was that promising altcoins would choose to be "backed by bitcoin" (even if that did not mean much actually) and therefore would want to cooperate with and support it, instead of compete with and disparage it.  

The grand plan of Blockstream devs for scaling bitcoin has been, for some time already, pushing the normal traffic to off-chain solutions and having bitcoin be the "gold of the internet", a medium reserved for high-value settlements between those off-chain systems.  At first, they fuzzily imagined that sidechains could be such off-chain systems, but perhaps they realized that they would not work (I can think of many reasons why).  So, when the Lightning Network came up they embraced it.  The existing sketch of the LN has many fatal problems too, which they know; but still they are happy to use it as an excuse for their plan of bitcoin into congestion.

Quote
Yet according to you, you're constantly buying Bitcoin. Real consistent, Jorge.

As I said many times, I have been doubling my holdings of bitcoins every day since Nov/2013.  Honest.  I still don t have as much as Satoshi, though.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
August 24, 2015, 08:14:09 AM

Cartoons and graphics sometimes say more than thousand words.
Today I found the truth table in the cyberspace. Wink



paging icebreaker for immediate application of the MP-RDF. These truths cannot be left unFUDed in public!

Following the longest chain isn't the same as following the longest *valid* chain.

Bitcoin gave its first movers tremendous advantages.  XT gives its first movers tremendous disadvantages.

Defect from the socioeconomic majority at your peril.   Tongue

I've realised that taking your posts seriously was the problem. I find them much better now I view them as light entertainment. I can't believe I was so naive as to fall for it before! Still we can't always be perfect Smiley

talking about your post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/prediction-next-spike-560000-14-oops-months-from-now-2017-update-800330

noob. Roll Eyes

To talk about my post you have to first read it (beyond the title that is specifically designed to catch out simpletons) and then understand it. You are going to struggle with that second part I can tell.

oh and its "n00b!"
AGD
legendary
Activity: 2070
Merit: 1164
Keeper of the Private Key
August 24, 2015, 08:10:54 AM
americanpegasus on reddit brings up a good idea about what could be going on with Bitcoin atm:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3i4wfx/its_either_going_to_happen_or_already_has/

Quote
I was reading these words from another topic and I realized that this is exactly what will happen to cryptocurrency if it is deemed as a serious threat to the powers that be.

"The Achilles Heel of any such movement is that it is vulnerable to infiltration, manipulation and domination by charismatic agents placed into highly visible and "authoritative" (media focused) positions, with the specific intent of obscuring the goals, and misdirecting the energy and momentum of the "mob" to render it impotent and harmless.

Occupy Wallstreet was defeated via a "bloodless coup". Certain personalities were injected into the mass to sow discord and disruption. Had the movement progressed further, other strategies would no doubt have been employed wherein agent provocateurs and "firebrands" would have been inserted to initiate violent riots and destruction - thereby tarnishing the image of supporters as "thugs", and giving authorities license to crush the movement with heavy-handed force that would be seen as "justified" by the media-mesmerized masses.

At least this is the technique, which was/is successfully used against a lot of peoples movements worldwide and we have a situation ongoing with Bitcoin, which pretty much looks like an orchestrated attack on Bitcoin, "the peoples money"...
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
August 24, 2015, 08:01:08 AM

Cartoons and graphics sometimes say more than thousand words.
Today I found the truth table in the cyberspace. Wink



paging icebreaker for immediate application of the MP-RDF. These truths cannot be left unFUDed in public!

Following the longest chain isn't the same as following the longest *valid* chain.

Bitcoin gave its first movers tremendous advantages.  XT gives its first movers tremendous disadvantages.

Defect from the socioeconomic majority at your peril.   Tongue

I've realised that taking your posts seriously was the problem. I find them much better now I view them as light entertainment. I can't believe I was so naive as to fall for it before! Still we can't always be perfect Smiley

talking about your post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/prediction-next-spike-560000-14-oops-months-from-now-2017-update-800330

noob. Roll Eyes
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