Topic: . - page 14. (Read 27425 times)

Dave did post that they'd transferred more funds to the CC account for the refunds.  Keep in mind that even if Dave/Tom work through the weekend to process refunds the payment processors work on their own timetables and refunds may not hit people's accounts until a few business days after Tom/Dave have done everything necessary at their end.

They really need to be sending out emails advising people when their refunds have been processed if they want to avoid people initiating charge backs (which could well cause the freezing of their merchant account and screw up the refund process entirely).

Locking their forums was a terrible idea which only encourages more of the kind of speculation they were hoping to avoid.  If they're not going to give adequate updates on their own forum, then they need to be giving a progress report at least once every 24 hours here.  Their customers have no reason whatsoever to trust them right now and they're doing an appalling job of trying to rekindle trust.  They've failed to provide a single could reason why people should not cancel their orders and request refunds right now.

You need to do a lot of "confusion" on this forum to get a refund

At this point I suspect you'll get your refund (cuz I got mine placed on Monday), in BTC.  People bailing in April if the March deadline is missed, won't be so lucky. 

Requested a refund on 8 Jan / Tuesday - still nothing today..  CC was used.. I have held back on doing a charge back.. will give it until Tuesday next week.

Based on what Dave's posted on their forums, they've been doing refunds via credit card and by BTC.

Last I checked refunds are not free.

Wire transfers cost money half of the time. Especially overseas.

Paypal would be unlikely to tolerate large numbers of refunds even on a business account. They are probably issuing cash to various accounts by means of various loop holes.

Transferring money from one domestic bank to another is probably the cheapest way to go about it.

It sort of is. If they're keeping everyone's money as bitcoins and the value of bitcoins goes down, they won't have the money to give everyone who demands a refund the full USD amount they're owed. It'd be as though they were taking everyone's pre-order funds, using them to gamble that Bitcoin prices will go up or stay the same, and then pocketing the winnings whilst their customers are the ones whose money is at risk.

Yeah julz made some good points.  Though  we probably all expected BTC to go up rather than down, so it's not exactly a 50/50 gamble w/ the exchange rate.  But yeah, I'm out > $700 on the deal and not expecting it or anything. Yeah, buyer beware, I see your guys' points too.  I should count my blessings  and consider myself lucky.

That, is none of your business.

You conveyed the asset / funds to them. After that it is under their control to do with as they wish.

Michael - I'd just like to jump in on the side of people against your stance, and hope you'll consider this.
I believe it was reasonably obvious that the purchase was *denominated* in USD - and as such any exchange fluctuation is purely at the pre-payer's risk. 
As I see it, this is utterly independent of whether your particular funds were converted from BTC or not. 
A BTC enterprise might dynamically adjust their various currency holdings based on their own risk strategies - and so long as they hold reasonable ratios to cover obligations and are 'solvent' - you shouldn't really have a leg to stand on regarding receiving the original BTC amount back.


FWIW - I have been on the 'beneficiary' side of this equation when dealing with a community member here before. I paid $1000 USD worth of BTC to Casascius - and in the meantime the BTC price fell.  When the deal fell through - I received slightly more BTC than I originally sent.  I would have been perfectly happy to receive less if the BTC price had risen - because Casascius had the foresight to make it clear from the beginning that the holding was denominated in USD.

This is where I think Tom could have done better, and indeed Bitcoin businesses in general:  they should explicitly explain the situation around refunds & returns - clearly stating what currency a particular deal is denominated in and perhaps going as far as to spell out the possible effects of currency fluctuations.

Received it today.  Two payments of 32.2861 BTC, and 122.52 BTC.  At the current mtgox price of $14.24, that's $2204.43.  I'm satisfied.

Thanks Dave and Tom.

***UPDATE***

Just received  BTC (USD equivalent) at 10:33PST, 15 minutes ago.  THANK YOU!

I think USD equivalent is fair (though I'm out 20%) *IF* my btc was converted when I sent it to USD.  I'll concede that's  fair, and I don't want more than what's just and fair.  (Never mind that I unwittingly provided an interest free loan - or rather, a negative interest loan!)

BUT, if my BTC wasn't converted to USD then it's only fair I get the exact amount of BTC I sent, yeah?  Can cablepair or Dave confirm that you were having bitpay convert BTC into USD?  I'll take your word for it, and if the answer is "yes", then I'll agree we're all square.  But if you didn't convert my BTC, please do the right thing and send the remainder of my coins back (~54BTC).

Apart from this - thank you Dave and Tom and I sincerely wish you best of luck with the project.  I would only suggest you implement your transparency policy as promised, this would do a lot to get people like me back one day.

 

Looks like you got it: http://blockchain.info/address/1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW

UPDATE:
Got my refund from BFL around midnight this morning (about a day after I asked).  Thanks BFL, no hard feelings and good luck.  My single is hashing away, and I'd be a fool not to re-order my upgrade once these things actually EXIST.  I just can't afford to finance anybody's ASIC development any longer..

Still waiting on my larger refund from bASIC, I've been lead to believe I can expect it each day for the last few, so I really hope to receive it today.  Cablepair if your reading this, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY refund my orders #s: 945,1375,1480, 2090 to 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW. 

Help me get a good night's sleep.  I will post an update the moment I see it come through!

FTFY

What would have worked well was a one liner post:
"Turns out I'm not going tonight, however, a new team member is going in my stead to assist with the backlog."

But I do acknowledge that y'all are working on a compressed time-line these last few days.

@ Dave

Thanks for your hard work. I hope it goes well for both you and Tom.

Just add at the end "It is a fluid situation".

That should lead everyone to believe that things change from moment to moment.

Its a dynamic situation to be sure.  I could just not update people - that works well too.

It is this type of changing story which degrades confidence.

Earlier you stated you were going to NY. (see below)
Now you state you may.

Don't say you will do a thing and then not do it.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1032.0
January 10, 2013, 06:15:24 PM » Tonight I will get on an 11:45PM red eye to NY

I don't normally read or post here but I did want to check in.  Bogart your refund is on the list for tomorrow.  This list is going to Tom *and* a new team member who is on a plane right now to go assist Tom.

I may leave for NY tomorrow too - we are trying to decide where I'm most effective.  Refunds are my highest priority, but it sure would be quicker if I had access to everything myself (i.e. if I could send the BTC transactions).