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Topic: . - page 6. (Read 17991 times)

full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
May 23, 2012, 09:30:37 PM
#34
No that doesn't actually translate at all because every ban to a partner occurs to protect the investment each advertiser makes who retain their remaining clicks to legitimate sources of traffic.  There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud so that advertisers get legit traffic to their site and earn new customers.  I cannot tell 100% what is click fraud and what is not but I can make reasonable assumptions about web traffic which is a tried and true industry. It's not easy to do that and it takes a careful judgement of the pros and cons each partner offers to our advertisers and I take that responsibility very seriously.
What FRAUD are you talking about?
In my case at least you told me the website was banned because it is not suitable for you in your opinion and that you think it is a "spam site" because there were no updates in a while. I quote: "I don't believe this web property is a good fit for us".
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
May 23, 2012, 09:29:47 PM
#33
Next time, get a lawyer.
What am I saying. It should have been obvious that you didn't know what you were doing when you tried committing trademark infringement on Google.
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
Send correspondance to GPG key A372E7C6
May 23, 2012, 09:29:34 PM
#32
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.
I see nothing of the sort in your terms. I'm with tysat on this one.

As no terms are explicitly defined, your terms are this:
Currently you could earn 22.77 mBTC
for one visitor!
Only 2% service fee
Free to use
Earnings paid automatically to you!

Let me direct you to http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/tos.php which is on the top right of every page on the website.
I saw those. None of them pertain to how funds are dispersed and when they can be dispersed. They mention that you can terminate the contract at any time, but there's nothing about you being allowed to keep the funds. Thus, the implied terms overrule, and those imply that the earnings are paid automatically for each and every click.
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL

@Andrew Bitcoiner

Sounds like what you're doing.

No that doesn't actually translate at all because every ban to a partner occurs to protect the investment each advertiser makes who retain their remaining clicks to legitimate sources of traffic.  There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud so that advertisers get legit traffic to their site and earn new customers.  I cannot tell 100% what is click fraud and what is not but I can make reasonable assumptions about web traffic which is a tried and true industry. It's not easy to do that and it takes a careful judgement of the pros and cons each partner offers to our advertisers and I take that responsibility very seriously. 

As an advertiser on BitcoinAds myself I want my advertising bitcents to be the most effective as possible and future versions of the site will have better analytics for advertisers and partners so that they can legitimately earn bitcoin for using the service. 
I see none of this in your terms. Even then, why aren't the funds returned to the advertisers? If the clicks are clearly fraud, then the advertisers shouldn't have to pay for them. You should get the scammer tag for that alone (unless it was in the terms, but it clearly wasn't).

Next time, get a lawyer.

Are you a lawyer or providing legal advice?  Your whole statement doesn't amount to anything with Section 5 of the TOS.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
May 23, 2012, 09:27:50 PM
#31
Seems like such a... bullshit corrupt "Fiat Currency" thing to do.

But hey, that's why I like bitcoins the way they work now, I know to just stay away from the dodgy ones.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
May 23, 2012, 09:25:51 PM
#30
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.
I see nothing of the sort in your terms. I'm with tysat on this one.

As no terms are explicitly defined, your terms are this:
Currently you could earn 22.77 mBTC
for one visitor!
Only 2% service fee
Free to use
Earnings paid automatically to you!

Let me direct you to http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/tos.php which is on the top right of every page on the website.
I saw those. None of them pertain to how funds are dispersed and when they can be dispersed. They mention that you can terminate the contract at any time, but there's nothing about you being allowed to keep the funds. Thus, the implied terms overrule, and those imply that the earnings are paid automatically for each and every click.
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL

@Andrew Bitcoiner

Sounds like what you're doing.

No that doesn't actually translate at all because every ban to a partner occurs to protect the investment each advertiser makes who retain their remaining clicks to legitimate sources of traffic.  There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud so that advertisers get legit traffic to their site and earn new customers.  I cannot tell 100% what is click fraud and what is not but I can make reasonable assumptions about web traffic which is a tried and true industry. It's not easy to do that and it takes a careful judgement of the pros and cons each partner offers to our advertisers and I take that responsibility very seriously. 

As an advertiser on BitcoinAds myself I want my advertising bitcents to be the most effective as possible and future versions of the site will have better analytics for advertisers and partners so that they can legitimately earn bitcoin for using the service. 
I see none of this in your terms. Even then, why aren't the funds returned to the advertisers? If the clicks are clearly fraud, then the advertisers shouldn't have to pay for them. You should get the scammer tag for that alone (unless it was in the terms, but it clearly wasn't).

Next time, get a lawyer.

Note: For the benefit of those who were harmed by Andrew Bitcoiner, none of my information or advice constitutes legal advice. I'd advise getting a lawyer to discuss your legal options.
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
Send correspondance to GPG key A372E7C6
May 23, 2012, 09:19:40 PM
#29
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.
I see nothing of the sort in your terms. I'm with tysat on this one.

As no terms are explicitly defined, your terms are this:
Currently you could earn 22.77 mBTC
for one visitor!
Only 2% service fee
Free to use
Earnings paid automatically to you!

Let me direct you to http://www.bitcoinadvertisers.com/tos.php which is on the top right of every page on the website.
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
Send correspondance to GPG key A372E7C6
May 23, 2012, 09:18:40 PM
#28
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL

@Andrew Bitcoiner

Sounds like what you're doing.

No that doesn't actually translate at all because every ban to a partner occurs to protect the investment each advertiser makes who retain their remaining clicks to legitimate sources of traffic.  There will always be fraud in CPC advertising and I take diligent actions to stop and preempt click fraud so that advertisers get legit traffic to their site and earn new customers.  I cannot tell 100% what is click fraud and what is not but I can make reasonable assumptions about web traffic which is a tried and true industry. It's not easy to do that and it takes a careful judgement of the pros and cons each partner offers to our advertisers and I take that responsibility very seriously.  

As an advertiser on BitcoinAds myself I want my advertising bitcents to be the most effective as possible and future versions of the site will have better analytics for advertisers and partners so that they can legitimately earn bitcoin for using the service.  
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
May 23, 2012, 09:16:19 PM
#27
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.
I see nothing of the sort in your terms. I'm with tysat on this one.

As no terms are explicitly defined, your terms are this:
  • Currently you could earn 22.77 mBTC for one visitor!
  • Only 2% service fee
  • Free to use
  • Earnings paid automatically to you!

Note: For the benefit of those who were harmed by Andrew Bitcoiner, none of my information or advice constitutes legal advice. I'd advise getting a lawyer to discuss your legal options.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
Keep it real
May 23, 2012, 08:52:51 PM
#26
When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com.

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL

@Andrew Bitcoiner

Sounds like what you're doing.
full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
May 23, 2012, 08:39:40 PM
#25
The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.
So you consider those clicks good enough to tick off the "advertisers got what they paid for" box but not good enough to pass on the payment to the providers of those same clicks? Grin
How convenient.

Imagine an estate agent/escrow who sells your house and then tells you "I sold your house but it was crap, so you will not get paid. The purchasers got what they paid for though. So the deal is closed, I do whatever I please with the money I received for your crappy property, and you are BANNED" LOL
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
May 23, 2012, 08:14:22 PM
#24
... are they bad clicks or aren't they?

if they advertiser got what they paid for why didn't the publisher get paid for what they did?
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
Send correspondance to GPG key A372E7C6
May 23, 2012, 07:57:30 PM
#23

I doubt you'll read or respond to this, but.....

Quote
TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Revoking service is a lot different than taking money they were owed.  Still sounds like you didn't tell them what they had done against your TOS.

When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com. Partners sign up of their own free will and at no cost to them. We do not gather contact information for followup communication with partners and as implied in the TOS we are under no obligation to inform partners of when or why they are banned.  If they contact us I am happy to discuss the matter with any partner that feels they have been unduly suspended and have a couple cases where we have happily worked things out.  This is all industry standard accepted practice. 
Uhh... what about the advertiser? Why shouldn't he get his money back for what must be fraudulent clicks? So he is paying you to donate to a charity for him? What is this shit?

The advertiser pays for clicks and they got what they paid for.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
May 23, 2012, 07:55:49 PM
#22

I doubt you'll read or respond to this, but.....

Quote
TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Revoking service is a lot different than taking money they were owed.  Still sounds like you didn't tell them what they had done against your TOS.

When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com. Partners sign up of their own free will and at no cost to them. We do not gather contact information for followup communication with partners and as implied in the TOS we are under no obligation to inform partners of when or why they are banned.  If they contact us I am happy to discuss the matter with any partner that feels they have been unduly suspended and have a couple cases where we have happily worked things out.  This is all industry standard accepted practice. 
Uhh... what about the advertiser? Why shouldn't he get his money back for what must be fraudulent clicks? So he is paying you to donate to a charity for him? What is this shit?
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
Send correspondance to GPG key A372E7C6
May 23, 2012, 07:53:52 PM
#21

I doubt you'll read or respond to this, but.....

Quote
TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Revoking service is a lot different than taking money they were owed.  Still sounds like you didn't tell them what they had done against your TOS.

When a partner is banned any bitcoin value accrued in the bitcoin address they provide is forfeit to BitcoinAdvertisers.com. Partners sign up of their own free will and at no cost to them. We do not gather contact information for followup communication with partners and as implied in the TOS we are under no obligation to inform partners of when or why they are banned.  If they contact us I am happy to discuss the matter with any partner that feels they have been unduly suspended and have a couple cases where we have happily worked things out.  This is all industry standard accepted practice. 
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
Keep it real
May 23, 2012, 07:34:54 PM
#20

@Andrew Bitcoiner
If I'm correct and you didn't tell the people who "violated the TOS" what they had done wrong, then I'd say that's pretty close to being a scam.

tysat, I would appreciate it if you realize that both these users run competing advertising services and read their comments to understand that by spreading FUD they are acting in their own self-interests. 

If you read BitcoinAdvertisers.com TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.  Given that I already commented that TOS disputes are private and said all I am willing to release in the main topic for my service.

I will end this by saying that I have no additional comment on their dispute but I will refer to you the threads in their own post history where CoinAd and giantdragon are both accused by their own users for scamming on competing advertising services.

I doubt you'll read or respond to this, but.....

Quote
TOS it is very clear that users have a limited license to use the service and that it may be revoked at any time for any reason.

Revoking service is a lot different than taking money they were owed.  Still sounds like you didn't tell them what they had done against your TOS.
full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
May 23, 2012, 06:32:42 PM
#19
Well, looks like BitcoinAdvertisers is pickier than Google Grin Turns out the website I was running their ads on was banned as it is not good enough for BA. (although I was never informed of this until I started posting in BA's topic and PMed Andrew, my earlier inquiry via support form was ignored, ads are still running and advertisers are still obviously paying for them - but not to me Roll Eyes ) Will be taking the ads shortly. (to actually implement the ban for the sake of advertisers LOL)
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
May 23, 2012, 06:31:13 PM
#18
I don't know about that ponzi bit, surely the advertisers are the ones paying for the site to run. - never looked too much into it because I'm months from launching any sites, the bad maths on the fee's and the way they are treating a complaint has me concerned (even if they are right, they are not acting it)

Trying to skim some extra profit by kicking off a few perceptively easy targets, is easy to fathom, pick on anything that could class as competition and anything with a slight reason that you can argue and not look too bad, worst case scenario is you say sorry and give everyone their dues (total loss of respect but no real loss in coins), best case scenario no one fights and you can keep doing it (gain in coins and invincible feelings)

This reminds me of an old isp i was with, the plan was unlimited* and at first they cancelled the highest using users half way through the billing month monthly (it was in the ToS at least, i never got kicked off) and then they changed to unlimited* up to 20gb, not that they got away with it, every complaint to the TiO here means a fine for the isp, and eventually unlimited became unlimited (ahem, unless you count speed limits lol)

not that i know anything thats not in the thread, so yeah
hero member
Activity: 540
Merit: 500
The future begins today
May 23, 2012, 06:12:17 PM
#17
Let's get this clear, BitcoinAdvertisers is a scam.

I've been following this with CoinAd administrator and the behavior is very strange. First the payment was delayed and he wasn't banned at all since the advertisements were still allowed to publish and to manage the main account until CoinAd administrator has decided to removed the ads due to non-payment from BitcoinAdvertisers admin. Now Andrew claims CoinAd violated the ToS without responding what closure did CoinAd violated (acording to my investigation none, the website was under the ToS on that time (wouldn't be now if he changed the ToS without prior notice)).

I'm afraid the operator doesn't have enough funds to pay, classic pyramid scheme. Until this situation gets resolved to both parts I do not recommend you (reader) to use BitcoinAdvertisers or any other service provided by Andrew.

Regards,
coinbuck - BTCLot.com Administrator
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
May 23, 2012, 06:01:32 PM
#16
I have some suspicions that BitcoinAdvertisers is based on a pyramid (Ponzi) scheme, where payments for old partners are taken from new ones. Operator sees that he don't have enough funds to pay and intending to increase lifespan of his pyramid just declines payouts to some affiliates, citing his TOS. Another argument in favor of this version is increasing promised payout per visitor to 24.75 mBTC from about 10 just in few days.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
May 23, 2012, 05:54:28 PM
#15
I'm just here to collect some bitcoin because supposedly this is way to to "turn your website into a money making monster"  and I haven't seen one penny yet ? How does one even see how much you've made ?
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