Topic: 1+ free Ripple BTC giveaway - ended! See OP! (Over 455 BTC gaveaway) - page 2. (Read 17876 times)

It is all REAL BTC.

Okay. Where is it on the blockchain? txid please.

Quote

TradeFortress offered you all a 1 BTC IOU, he said he owed you 1 BTC each. He essentially wrote you a cheque for 1 BTC with an empty bank account. The trust lines he asked you to set, was asking you to extend 100 BTC credit to him, which he could incur in debt.

An IOU in the absence of any consideration is just a naked promise. Completely unenforceable.

Quote

TradeFortress pays me my 10.15 BTC back, or he is 10000% scamming, deceiving, and foolish.

What 10.15 BTC? What are you talking about, back? Show me the txid where you transferred 10.15 BTC to him. A blockchain url will suffice.

Pale Phoenix

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: webr3 on May 20, 2013, 05:08:45 PM

TradeFortress simply demonstrated it again, but in a very untrustworthy way, not fullfiling any of his promises. Simply, he only demonstrated that he is untrustworthy, and indeed that he doesn't pay back money he owes.

Has he said he won't pay you back? I find that hard to believe.

In post 11 of this thread he states:

Quote

B) I won't defraud/scam you out of any money. Yes, you can convert the BTC I send you to real BTCs. For continued discussion, send me a PM, responses will be deleted from this point.

Maybe you are jumping the gun?

EDIT: I've read the other thread in Scam Accusations and I'm no longer sure webr3 is being genuine about this whole thing, so I'll butt out.

slwchs

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

i like this thing

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: K1773R on May 20, 2013, 04:58:28 PM

Quote from: K1773R on May 20, 2013, 04:58:28 PM

Reading this thread (just reading it, not participating in the experiment!) has finally made me understand how Ripple works. There were many threads that tried to explain Ripple, somehow I just did not get it because nobody could really explain to me exactly how the ownership of value (or the promise of such) propagates from A over B to C in Ripple and what it all means and its implications, now after reading this thread I finally understand. This thread is highly educational! Especially the explanation what happened to web3er's ฿10.15/Bitstamp finally made it all clear to me! Thank you!

It's simple really.

TradeFortress promised to pay each user 1 BTC who trusted him 100 BTC.
He sent IOUs for 1 BTC to each person who trusted him.
He had no BTC.
As soon as somebody who had trusted him had BTC backed by a gateway that was trustworthy, some of those promises has a trust chain back to a source which would turn the IOUs in to Blockchain BTC.

TradeFortress did not issue some kind of different, made up, BTC, he promised to pay people real BTC, sending them IOUs.

I trusted him, using an account with trusted BTC IOUs in it, and people then cashed out the BTC HE (TradeFortress) owed them.

So, TradeFortress owes me 10.15 BTC, nobody owes him any.

He also has many BTC promises ready to be cashed in, 455+ BTC by his own count, which can be cashed in the second anybody puts trusted btc IOUs from a reputable gateway in to any of those accounts.

The ripple system worked perfectly, and had already been demonstrated and used for months.

TradeFortress simply demonstrated it again, but in a very untrustworthy way, not fullfiling any of his promises. Simply, he only demonstrated that he is untrustworthy, and indeed that he doesn't pay back money he owes.

good to see you lost 10.15 BTC by using a faulty/deprecated system and being stupid! its your own fault after all lol

Did you not read? I didn't loose any BTC. TradeFortress personally owes me it.

If I have "lost" that BTC, then TradeFortress has scammed me, and tried to scam a few hundred other bitcointalk users.

This is what you get when you deal with debt-backed money.

TradeFortress "experiment" is brilliant, as it is also a perfect example of how the actual debt based financial system works. You have witnessed a small scale and schematic reproduction of the same processes that triggered the recent financial crisis or the default of Argentina in 2001.

Trust + Money = problems, and this is the very point Bitcoin was designed to address.

webr3

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Reading this thread (just reading it, not participating in the experiment!) has finally made me understand how Ripple works. There were many threads that tried to explain Ripple, somehow I just did not get it because nobody could really explain to me exactly how the ownership of value (or the promise of such) propagates from A over B to C in Ripple and what it all means and its implications, now after reading this thread I finally understand. This thread is highly educational! Especially the explanation what happened to web3er's ฿10.15/Bitstamp finally made it all clear to me! Thank you!

It's simple really.

TradeFortress promised to pay each user 1 BTC who trusted him 100 BTC.
He sent IOUs for 1 BTC to each person who trusted him.
He had no BTC.
As soon as somebody who had trusted him had BTC backed by a gateway that was trustworthy, some of those promises has a trust chain back to a source which would turn the IOUs in to Blockchain BTC.

TradeFortress did not issue some kind of different, made up, BTC, he promised to pay people real BTC, sending them IOUs.

I trusted him, using an account with trusted BTC IOUs in it, and people then cashed out the BTC HE (TradeFortress) owed them.

So, TradeFortress owes me 10.15 BTC, nobody owes him any.

He also has many BTC promises ready to be cashed in, 455+ BTC by his own count, which can be cashed in the second anybody puts trusted btc IOUs from a reputable gateway in to any of those accounts.

The ripple system worked perfectly, and had already been demonstrated and used for months.

TradeFortress simply demonstrated it again, but in a very untrustworthy way, not fullfiling any of his promises. Simply, he only demonstrated that he is untrustworthy, and indeed that he doesn't pay back money he owes.

good to see you lost 10.15 BTC by using a faulty/deprecated system and being stupid! its your own fault after all lol

Did you not read? I didn't loose any BTC. TradeFortress personally owes me it.

If I have "lost" that BTC, then TradeFortress has scammed me, and tried to scam a few hundred other bitcointalk users.

K1773R

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1008

/dev/null

Reading this thread (just reading it, not participating in the experiment!) has finally made me understand how Ripple works. There were many threads that tried to explain Ripple, somehow I just did not get it because nobody could really explain to me exactly how the ownership of value (or the promise of such) propagates from A over B to C in Ripple and what it all means and its implications, now after reading this thread I finally understand. This thread is highly educational! Especially the explanation what happened to web3er's ฿10.15/Bitstamp finally made it all clear to me! Thank you!

It's simple really.

TradeFortress promised to pay each user 1 BTC who trusted him 100 BTC.
He sent IOUs for 1 BTC to each person who trusted him.
He had no BTC.
As soon as somebody who had trusted him had BTC backed by a gateway that was trustworthy, some of those promises has a trust chain back to a source which would turn the IOUs in to Blockchain BTC.

TradeFortress did not issue some kind of different, made up, BTC, he promised to pay people real BTC, sending them IOUs.

I trusted him, using an account with trusted BTC IOUs in it, and people then cashed out the BTC HE (TradeFortress) owed them.

So, TradeFortress owes me 10.15 BTC, nobody owes him any.

He also has many BTC promises ready to be cashed in, 455+ BTC by his own count, which can be cashed in the second anybody puts trusted btc IOUs from a reputable gateway in to any of those accounts.

The ripple system worked perfectly, and had already been demonstrated and used for months.

TradeFortress simply demonstrated it again, but in a very untrustworthy way, not fullfiling any of his promises. Simply, he only demonstrated that he is untrustworthy, and indeed that he doesn't pay back money he owes.

good to see you lost 10.15 BTC by using a faulty/deprecated system and being stupid! its your own fault after all lol

webr3

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: webr3 on May 20, 2013, 01:54:25 PM

Reading this thread (just reading it, not participating in the experiment!) has finally made me understand how Ripple works. There were many threads that tried to explain Ripple, somehow I just did not get it because nobody could really explain to me exactly how the ownership of value (or the promise of such) propagates from A over B to C in Ripple and what it all means and its implications, now after reading this thread I finally understand. This thread is highly educational! Especially the explanation what happened to web3er's ฿10.15/Bitstamp finally made it all clear to me! Thank you!

It's simple really.

TradeFortress promised to pay each user 1 BTC who trusted him 100 BTC.
He sent IOUs for 1 BTC to each person who trusted him.
He had no BTC.
As soon as somebody who had trusted him had BTC backed by a gateway that was trustworthy, some of those promises has a trust chain back to a source which would turn the IOUs in to Blockchain BTC.

TradeFortress did not issue some kind of different, made up, BTC, he promised to pay people real BTC, sending them IOUs.

I trusted him, using an account with trusted BTC IOUs in it, and people then cashed out the BTC HE (TradeFortress) owed them.

So, TradeFortress owes me 10.15 BTC, nobody owes him any.

He also has many BTC promises ready to be cashed in, 455+ BTC by his own count, which can be cashed in the second anybody puts trusted btc IOUs from a reputable gateway in to any of those accounts.

The ripple system worked perfectly, and had already been demonstrated and used for months.

TradeFortress simply demonstrated it again, but in a very untrustworthy way, not fullfiling any of his promises. Simply, he only demonstrated that he is untrustworthy, and indeed that he doesn't pay back money he owes.

ecoop75

newbie

Activity: 6

Merit: 0

Ripple well demonstrated.
Nice job guys.

cedivad

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1001

Kudos to tradefortress

So basically i understood ripple correctly even before this thread... And yes, it's useless.

prof7bit

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 500

https://youengine.io/

Reading this thread (just reading it, not participating in the experiment!) has finally made me understand how Ripple works. There were many threads that tried to explain Ripple, somehow I just did not get it because nobody could really explain to me exactly how the ownership of value (or the promise of such) propagates from A over B to C in Ripple and what it all means and its implications, now after reading this thread I finally understand. This thread is highly educational! Especially the explanation what happened to web3er's ฿10.15/Bitstamp finally made it all clear to me! Thank you!

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: Rampion on May 20, 2013, 01:42:19 PM

Quote from: Rampion on May 20, 2013, 01:42:19 PM

It is all REAL BTC.

No it's not, it's a BTC IOU. If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away.

It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source.

TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away.

More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises.

If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is?

You are the fool for granting trust for 100BTC to an anonymous guy on the interwebz.

If he defaults, what are you gonna do? Nothing.

What TradeFortress has done is a brilliant example of what Ripple is. There will be a lot of scams going on in Ripple, lot of people will get burnt.

What TradeFortress has done is abuse peoples trust, by using his reputation as trusted here to con people out of BTC. It doesn't matter what system is used, it has been abused.

This is nothing to do with ripple, and show's no flaw in it. It simply shows that you should be careful who you trust, always.

TradeFortress has asked for trust, and promised people money. He has incurred debt. He has a 100 BTC overdraft with many members of this forum, and he's cashed out over 10 BTC so far. This is money he owes.

TradeFortress is either trustworthy, or is not. So far, it seems he's one of the shadiest people I've ever met on the internet. He has facilitated nothing but his own demise.

TradeFortress, make good your promises, repay your debts, contact the people who issued trust to you and ask them to revoke it. What you have tried to do here is low and foolish.

TradeFortress has done an excellent job.

You are a fool if you "trust" a guy because of his post count. You trust the blockchain and your Bitcoin private keys. You do not trust fractional reserve. You do not trust IOU's. You trust MONEY, not DEBT.

End of the lesson.

EDIT: you should be actually happy of this. Yours is an excellent example of what will come. You will pass to history to be the very first user to be left holding the bag inside Ripple. And I can guarantee that there will be A LOT of gullible people that will be left holding the bag inside Ripple, including a lot of XRP holders.

webr3

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

It is all REAL BTC.

No it's not, it's a BTC IOU. If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away.

It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source.

TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away.

More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises.

If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is?

You are the fool for granting trust for 100BTC to an anonymous guy on the interwebz.

If he defaults, what are you gonna do? Nothing.

What TradeFortress has done is a brilliant example of what Ripple is. There will be a lot of scams going on in Ripple, lot of people will get burnt.

What TradeFortress has done is abuse peoples trust, by using his reputation as trusted here to con people out of BTC. It doesn't matter what system is used, it has been abused.

This is nothing to do with ripple, and show's no flaw in it. It simply shows that you should be careful who you trust, always.

TradeFortress has asked for trust, and promised people money. He has incurred debt. He has a 100 BTC overdraft with many members of this forum, and he's cashed out over 10 BTC so far. This is money he owes.

TradeFortress is either trustworthy, or is not. So far, it seems he's one of the shadiest people I've ever met on the internet. He has facilitated nothing but his own demise.

TradeFortress, make good your promises, repay your debts, contact the people who issued trust to you and ask them to revoke it. What you have tried to do here is low and foolish.

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: Francesco on May 20, 2013, 01:32:38 PM

It is all REAL BTC.

No it's not, it's a BTC IOU. If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away.

It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source.

TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away.

More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises.

If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is?

You are the fool for granting trust for 100BTC to an anonymous guy on the interwebz.

If he defaults, what are you gonna do? Nothing.

What TradeFortress has done is a brilliant example of what Ripple is. There will be a lot of scams going on in Ripple, lot of people will get burnt.

webr3

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

It is all REAL BTC.

No it's not, it's a BTC IOU. If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away.

It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source.

TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away.

More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises.

If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is?

The idea behind Ripple is that you should only trust people you believe will pay for some good reason. If you trust random people, your problem, this is my position.

So then, is TradeFortress good for the BTC he's promised people and taken from me, or is he not, is he trustworthy, or not?

I do not understand why this is being debated, if anybody else scammed a user out of BTC, potentially 455 users out of 100 BTC each, they would be gone in a second.

Francesco

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

It is all REAL BTC.

No it's not, it's a BTC IOU. If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away.

It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source.

TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away.

More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises.

If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is?

The idea behind Ripple is that you should only trust people you believe will pay for some good reason. If you trust random people, your problem, this is my position.

webr3

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

It is all REAL BTC.

No it's not, it's a BTC IOU. If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away.

It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source.

TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away.

More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises.

If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is?

Injust

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

I'd say you are both kind of right Cheesy

Yes, TradeFortress is issuing IOUs. However, because webr3's Bitstamp-issued IOUs got exchanged in there with other people's TradeFortress IOUs, some people got webr3's Bitstamp IOUs instead and used them.

tysat

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1004

Keep it real