I'm repeating some comments from a post of mine from a month ago to the btc books, as there are new bitcoin books reading this thread, and some of the others may have missed it:
A few comments:
1) Sportsbooks - This is 2014, not 2004.
Bettors all over the world are familiar with handicaps, whether they call them pointspreads or Asian handicaps.
For that matter, some of the books like SBOBet and IBC don't even offer moneylines, they only offer Asian hc's.
I come across so many sports at btc books where they'll have up a moneyline but no pointspread/Asian hc.
If it's offered with a handicap at some other books, then why not offer it with a handicap at your book?
2) Motorsports is a horribly underrepresented category.
How about F1, and be sure to include props - Podium Finish, Top 6 Finish, Points Finish, Fastest Lap - at minimum.
And Nascar is barely existent in btc sportsbook land, even though a great deal of the people in this forum appear to be USA based.
A huge market that is being overlooked needlessly.
Offer Nascar beginning early in the week and up till the race, and you will see a lot of business on this (as long as your odds are fair).
Topic: #1 RATINGS and REVIEWS of SPORTS BOOKS thread. Poster input appreciated. - page 23. (Read 89556 times)
May 04, 2014, 09:29:59 PM
May 04, 2014, 07:44:47 PM
If someone knows how to get a line history on 4/19 match between Olympique Lyon - Paris St. German , France Coupe de la Ligue, can you PM it to me. I use Sports Options and it doesn't have it. I'm looking for what the line was during all of 4/15. Thanks
May 04, 2014, 09:36:45 AM
imo NS should be graded as an A book rather than Anoni as although it's older NS already proved trustworthiness and solved all users issues that surfaced promptly.
May 04, 2014, 05:14:57 AM
Okay anoni should be a C book because they are so far behind the state of art that they cant be rated any higher. Im not demanding they be downgraded, just stating my opinion for the record.
May 04, 2014, 05:08:12 AM
DirectBet - I'm not going to change the ratings here based upon my personal opinion. If you do come in here bashing another book, then I will go in your thread with my personal thoughts on your book. This includes credibility among many other things. I think it's only fair since you are using your thread to discredit PeepsPlace.
May 04, 2014, 04:31:13 AM
It sounds from Bismarckbkk's post that Jetwin never changed their T&C, even though Jetwin ("BOOKMAKER") had posted "Some points indeed contain rather one-sided information and will be reconsidered during this week."
- but that Bismarckbkk individually negotiated some less onerous terms.
- but that Bismarckbkk individually negotiated some less onerous terms.
Updated T&Cs will be published in the next few days.
May 04, 2014, 04:23:01 AM
@Peeps it really doesnt make sense to discredit dplay . Anoni confirmed the issue .
I'm not trying to discredit the poster. I also don't want to present a haphazard case to the forum. I'll look at the time that the bet was placed along with the market price. Then it will be presented to the forum along with any other facts that may be relevant.The forum will then make a decision. Ratings are determined by decisions of the posters. Peeps Place is in a no win situation if we side with the player or book. We are either accused of being on the take or extortion. The players can post their opinions.
May 04, 2014, 04:01:55 AM
Info@Anonibet - [Re: statement in T&C that withdrawing without 1x play through will be charged 5%]
"Dear Gogo ppp,
Thank you for your comment. As I have already explained, we do not want to become a safe box. We have never applied this rule so far. I do not understand why this disturbs you..."
Michael - Since you said you don't understand...
I leave a few coins in various books that I feel comfortable with, in case I find a bet I would like to make in the future and can save time this way.
I would feel comfortable doing this with Anonibet, except I don't want to be charged 5% if I decide to withdraw (a few coins). Part of the positives of bitcoins is they can be moved for a few pennies, not 5%.
So it makes me uncomfortable for that reason. Yours is the only book where I see that charge.
If I leave 4 coins valued at ~$500 usd each it will cost me $100 if you change your mind/someone other than you applies the charge, etc.
You say the charge has never been applied.
But then, as I asked, why not remove the language, and give individual warnings that you will apply the 5% charge in the future to people you feel are using Anonibet as a safe box.
So this is why it disturbs me and why I mentioned it for a 2nd time.
OK I see your point now. You might be right, we shall remove it from our T&C.
We have set this rule in order to prevent large amounts of BTC kept in Anonibet. Bitcoin is very attractive for hackers and we do not want to attract "bad guys" thinking we keep large amounts of BTC. This was the only purpose really. We do not even charge withdraw fees, we pay the network fee at each withdraw so that our customers receive the exact amount they have withdrawn from Anonibet.
Regards,
Michael
The above re: the following in Anonibet's T&C:
"2.02
In order to withdraw funds from your account, you are required to place bets as much as the amount deposited. If you make a withdrawal request without placing bets 5% handling fee shall be deducted from the amount you have requested."
Michael - "OK I see your point now. You might be right, we shall remove it from our T&C."
Peeps Place - "Nice work by both gogo and Anonibet working together. It's good to see a book take our opinions seriously."
Yet I notice it is still there 9 days later. Perhaps you forgot to remove it?
Anonibet - What is happening with the above situation?
Did you decide not to remove the 5% charge for withdrawing without rolling over a deposit one time?
Hi Gogo,
We will remove this %5 from our T&C. I have requested from our IT team to remove it. They will certainly do it this week.
May 04, 2014, 03:35:04 AM
Info@Anonibet - [Re: statement in T&C that withdrawing without 1x play through will be charged 5%]
"Dear Gogo ppp,
Thank you for your comment. As I have already explained, we do not want to become a safe box. We have never applied this rule so far. I do not understand why this disturbs you..."
Michael - Since you said you don't understand...
I leave a few coins in various books that I feel comfortable with, in case I find a bet I would like to make in the future and can save time this way.
I would feel comfortable doing this with Anonibet, except I don't want to be charged 5% if I decide to withdraw (a few coins). Part of the positives of bitcoins is they can be moved for a few pennies, not 5%.
So it makes me uncomfortable for that reason. Yours is the only book where I see that charge.
If I leave 4 coins valued at ~$500 usd each it will cost me $100 if you change your mind/someone other than you applies the charge, etc.
You say the charge has never been applied.
But then, as I asked, why not remove the language, and give individual warnings that you will apply the 5% charge in the future to people you feel are using Anonibet as a safe box.
So this is why it disturbs me and why I mentioned it for a 2nd time.
OK I see your point now. You might be right, we shall remove it from our T&C.
We have set this rule in order to prevent large amounts of BTC kept in Anonibet. Bitcoin is very attractive for hackers and we do not want to attract "bad guys" thinking we keep large amounts of BTC. This was the only purpose really. We do not even charge withdraw fees, we pay the network fee at each withdraw so that our customers receive the exact amount they have withdrawn from Anonibet.
Regards,
Michael
The above re: the following in Anonibet's T&C:
"2.02
In order to withdraw funds from your account, you are required to place bets as much as the amount deposited. If you make a withdrawal request without placing bets 5% handling fee shall be deducted from the amount you have requested."
Michael - "OK I see your point now. You might be right, we shall remove it from our T&C."
Peeps Place - "Nice work by both gogo and Anonibet working together. It's good to see a book take our opinions seriously."
Yet I notice it is still there 9 days later. Perhaps you forgot to remove it?
Anonibet - What is happening with the above situation?
Did you decide not to remove the 5% charge for withdrawing without rolling over a deposit one time?
May 04, 2014, 03:23:25 AM
Never heard from Jetwin after the post I quote below:
It sounds from Bismarckbkk's post that Jetwin never changed their T&C, even though Jetwin ("BOOKMAKER") had posted "Some points indeed contain rather one-sided information and will be reconsidered during this week."
- but that Bismarckbkk individually negotiated some less onerous terms.
BOOKMAKER (Jetwin): "Our bonus TC contain standard points which can be found in TC of a number of companies. Here are just a few examples from bookies with SBR rating A- & A+:..."
" bookmaker.eu: All bonuses must comply with a 4-time rollover requirement before any withdrawal is made. BookMaker reserves the right to modify or terminate this promotion at any time without prior notice."
Can you tell me where to find this info on their website?
I see nothing about bonuses - none offered, no info on rollover.
They only appear to offer BetPoints, a loyalty program.
"betonline.ag: Player agrees not to request a withdrawal prior to meeting all stipulations, including rollover requirements. Bonuses are for recreational players. BetOnline reserves the right to deny and/or cancel bonuses and/or winnings from said bonuses if management determines a player to be non-recreational, an arbitrage bettor, a scalper, or part of a syndicate - without further explanation. BetOnline reserves the right to take away any bonus at any time without explanation."
BetOnline does have the above copy mixed into their terms.
It also states under the "Bonus" rules:
"12. Players that accept a bonus and do not wager any portion of the bonus, may request a withdrawal and have the bonus removed from their account."
However, I see no rules for what qualifies for rollover in the "Bonus" section of their rules.
In the "Freeplay" rules, it does give some guidelines:
"Free Plays can only be wagered on:
FOOTBALL (NFL / NCAA / CFL / ARENA)
BASKETBALL (NBA / NCAA / WNBA)
MLB Major League Baseball
NHL
CRICKET
SOCCER
BOXING
UFC (MIXED MARTIAL ARTS)
TENNIS
Free Plays can be used only in the Sportsbook on straight bets, parlays and teasers (no round robins).
No point-buying is allowed.
Free Plays lose when a push or tie results."
__________________________________________________________
"When calculating “rollover”, we use the lower of the risk/reward value as the effective value. For example, if you bet $500 on Team A to win $450, and you bet $400 on Team B to win $350, and you bet $250 on Team C to win $50, the total action applied toward fulfilling the rollover requirement would be $850 ($450 + $350 + $50)."
_______________________________________________________________________________ ___________
Contrast this to your rules - You will only count up to $75 per bet toward rollover; you don't count the lower of risk/reward of a bet but instead only accept bets with certain odds, etc.
Also, if I'm reading this correctly - the customer must bet the entire bonus amount in one single parlay bet, at least once , with additional requirements as to the odds that can be offered and simultaneous start times for the events parlayed.
Congratulations on coming up with the most onerous condition I've ever seen for a rollover!
I've never seen rules anywhere close to as difficult as yours are for completing a rollover.
Can you find another book with similar rules?
Is there any book in the Universe which requires the entire bonus amount to be wagered in one parlay?
But that's not enough for you - you then require only certain odds, and simultaneous start times for at least 2 of the events.
As you are well aware, the player is a favorite to lose the parlay and thus the entire bonus amount in that one bet.
But they are then committed to your book for the rollover, locking them in for a long time with your $75 rollover limit.
Ridiculous.
I'd also like to point out that your handle "BOOKMAKER" rather than "Jetwin" is confusing, since as you know there is a reputable online sportsbook named "Bookmaker".
" bookmaker.eu: All bonuses must comply with a 4-time rollover requirement before any withdrawal is made. BookMaker reserves the right to modify or terminate this promotion at any time without prior notice."
Can you tell me where to find this info on their website?
I see nothing about bonuses - none offered, no info on rollover.
They only appear to offer BetPoints, a loyalty program.
"betonline.ag: Player agrees not to request a withdrawal prior to meeting all stipulations, including rollover requirements. Bonuses are for recreational players. BetOnline reserves the right to deny and/or cancel bonuses and/or winnings from said bonuses if management determines a player to be non-recreational, an arbitrage bettor, a scalper, or part of a syndicate - without further explanation. BetOnline reserves the right to take away any bonus at any time without explanation."
BetOnline does have the above copy mixed into their terms.
It also states under the "Bonus" rules:
"12. Players that accept a bonus and do not wager any portion of the bonus, may request a withdrawal and have the bonus removed from their account."
However, I see no rules for what qualifies for rollover in the "Bonus" section of their rules.
In the "Freeplay" rules, it does give some guidelines:
"Free Plays can only be wagered on:
FOOTBALL (NFL / NCAA / CFL / ARENA)
BASKETBALL (NBA / NCAA / WNBA)
MLB Major League Baseball
NHL
CRICKET
SOCCER
BOXING
UFC (MIXED MARTIAL ARTS)
TENNIS
Free Plays can be used only in the Sportsbook on straight bets, parlays and teasers (no round robins).
No point-buying is allowed.
Free Plays lose when a push or tie results."
__________________________________________________________
"When calculating “rollover”, we use the lower of the risk/reward value as the effective value. For example, if you bet $500 on Team A to win $450, and you bet $400 on Team B to win $350, and you bet $250 on Team C to win $50, the total action applied toward fulfilling the rollover requirement would be $850 ($450 + $350 + $50)."
_______________________________________________________________________________ ___________
Contrast this to your rules - You will only count up to $75 per bet toward rollover; you don't count the lower of risk/reward of a bet but instead only accept bets with certain odds, etc.
Also, if I'm reading this correctly - the customer must bet the entire bonus amount in one single parlay bet, at least once , with additional requirements as to the odds that can be offered and simultaneous start times for the events parlayed.
Congratulations on coming up with the most onerous condition I've ever seen for a rollover!
I've never seen rules anywhere close to as difficult as yours are for completing a rollover.
Can you find another book with similar rules?
Is there any book in the Universe which requires the entire bonus amount to be wagered in one parlay?
But that's not enough for you - you then require only certain odds, and simultaneous start times for at least 2 of the events.
As you are well aware, the player is a favorite to lose the parlay and thus the entire bonus amount in that one bet.
But they are then committed to your book for the rollover, locking them in for a long time with your $75 rollover limit.
Ridiculous.
I'd also like to point out that your handle "BOOKMAKER" rather than "Jetwin" is confusing, since as you know there is a reputable online sportsbook named "Bookmaker".
It sounds from Bismarckbkk's post that Jetwin never changed their T&C, even though Jetwin ("BOOKMAKER") had posted "Some points indeed contain rather one-sided information and will be reconsidered during this week."
- but that Bismarckbkk individually negotiated some less onerous terms.
May 03, 2014, 11:45:28 PM
@Peeps it really doesnt make sense to discredit dplay . Anoni confirmed the issue .
May 03, 2014, 11:41:23 PM
thx guy, ill try jetwin then
Their rules are iffy but after confronting them they offered me much better terms and promised to honor their side of the deal no matter what happens.
Their rules are iffy but after confronting them they offered me much better terms and promised to honor their side of the deal no matter what happens.
May 03, 2014, 11:37:38 PM
Any word on Jetwin? They offered me a good bonus with imrpoved T&C. Their website looks good and functional. Lines seem good for a bitcoinbook.
Had several withdrawals with them last month. 0.5-3 BTC, in 20-30 min. May 03, 2014, 10:18:19 PM
They never responded to my last post, in which I questioned several things in his response to me.
I haven't looked back at the T&C, didn't realize they've improved it after my posts.
I haven't looked back at the T&C, didn't realize they've improved it after my posts.
May 03, 2014, 04:19:54 PM
Any word on Jetwin? They offered me a good bonus with imrpoved T&C. Their website looks good and functional. Lines seem good for a bitcoinbook.
No problems with them as far as payouts. The major complaint was with their rules. May 03, 2014, 01:23:52 PM
Peeps Place, what do you have anything to add to my dispute with Anonibet? What is your final opinion on that? Who is wrong, the sportsbook or the player? Do you lack any additional info?
This is what I have to add. You are a first time poster. You claimed that Anonibet canceled a bet. I told you multiple times to send me the email that you sent to Anonibet and that I would look up a line history on archives.I don't want what Anonibet sent you. I would need their approval but you refuse to give me information. How can a book be downgraded on the word of a first time poster with no proof?
On one side we have a book in existence since 2011 with a history of having not one stiff job or unfair cancellation. On the other side we have a first time poster that refuses to work with me.
Either way, I've offered to have the whole conversation posted, I've received no response from the other side so I'll just post the emails I wrote.
I first sent them a message through their internal messaging system, I do not have the contents of that message.
Quote
The game took place on a neutral venue, therefore there were no home and away teams.
Quote
Once again, as the game was played on neutral ground, the order by which the teams are displayed is meaningless. There is no home advantage.
Also, kindly state if this is your final decision. If that's the case I'll proceed to the forums where you advertise yourselves and make my case there.
Also, kindly state if this is your final decision. If that's the case I'll proceed to the forums where you advertise yourselves and make my case there.
Quote
There was no mistake about my bet, it was very much in line with the other bookmakers at the time I took it. So would you kindly elaborate on the "odds being attributed to the wrong team" part?
Quote
What you've done is just made an adjustment for the market move. Both set of odds are for the same game, one are opening odds the other are closing odds. There is no obvious error.
Quote
Was that your final say on the matter?
Quote
I sincerely believe you are an honest sportsbook, however, what you're pulling here makes absolutely no sense. The bet I got on was valid, in line with the odds the rest of the world had. I've been around sportsbettng for years, and I have never had from a reputable sportsbook. Whenever a book voided my bet due to the line not going their way, they went bust shortly after. On the other hand, I can see you manage your lines well and frankly, I'm quite surprised with what happened here considering your reputation.
The bottom line is, I feel I've been wronged and I'll post our dispute publicly as we're unable to come to an agreement. Surely you understand that's how things work, as I don't think you're in the sporsbook since yesterday.
The bottom line is, I feel I've been wronged and I'll post our dispute publicly as we're unable to come to an agreement. Surely you understand that's how things work, as I don't think you're in the sporsbook since yesterday.
May 03, 2014, 12:59:51 PM
Any word on Jetwin? They offered me a good bonus with imrpoved T&C. Their website looks good and functional. Lines seem good for a bitcoinbook.
May 03, 2014, 12:12:24 PM
If a poster is having problems getting paid from a book, I ask you to do it in this way:
1. Try to work it out with the book.
2. If that doesn't work, then bring it to the forums.
3. Please do not threaten a book to bring it to this thread if you are not paid. This thread is not to be used for forum extortion. Players that are rightfully owed should be paid but there is a correct way to go about it.
DirectBet tried to spin things because he feels unfairly treated. I'm on the players side and the book doesn't matter. This thread is for the players.
1. Try to work it out with the book.
2. If that doesn't work, then bring it to the forums.
3. Please do not threaten a book to bring it to this thread if you are not paid. This thread is not to be used for forum extortion. Players that are rightfully owed should be paid but there is a correct way to go about it.
DirectBet tried to spin things because he feels unfairly treated. I'm on the players side and the book doesn't matter. This thread is for the players.
May 03, 2014, 11:47:40 AM
Peeps Place, what do you have anything to add to my dispute with Anonibet? What is your final opinion on that? Who is wrong, the sportsbook or the player? Do you lack any additional info?
This is what I have to add. You are a first time poster. You claimed that Anonibet canceled a bet. I told you multiple times to send me the email that you sent to Anonibet and that I would look up a line history on archives.I don't want what Anonibet sent you. I would need their approval but you refuse to give me information. How can a book be downgraded on the word of a first time poster with no proof?
On one side we have a book in existence since 2011 with a history of having not one stiff job or unfair cancellation. On the other side we have a first time poster that refuses to work with me.
May 03, 2014, 11:41:29 AM
Peeps Place, what do you have anything to add to my dispute with Anonibet? What is your final opinion on that? Who is wrong, the sportsbook or the player? Do you lack any additional info?
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