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Topic: #1 RATINGS and REVIEWS of SPORTS BOOKS thread. Poster input appreciated. - page 25. (Read 89572 times)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 1061
Hi folks,

Happy Friday to us all!

Just a short note from us here at Cloudbet.

The operators should be the ones under scrutiny here. It's useful - and important - that we operators have a place to exchange feedback with our clients and with the betting community. It's important for us to continue to have objective open dialog with the folks who use our service. It's invaluable. It helps us understand the concerns our clients have, needs and demands they have, and is extremely useful in helping us make improvements to our product and service offering. Negative feedback is most helpful -- it teaches us the most. We must continue to strive to improve the quality of our products and services.

I would implore all operators who post here to allow the betting community to post their comments without confrontation. We - at least us here at Cloudbet - have a lot to learn from them, despite our team having been in the industry for nearly 10 years and in some cases much longer.

We're rated a B, or a C, or something. It doesn't matter what criteria the raters use, we can't influence that. What matters is the feedback we receive, that empowers us to improve the quality and breadth of our service. Please - be harsh, be critical, be brutal even, but be honest and objective.

Here's hoping all of your parlays hit this weekend!

Cheers,
Cloudbet
The feedback is good for posters and books alike.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 1061
DirectBet doesn't have any idea of what's been talked about with other books.

Let's get back on track. DirectBet:

1. How many years of gambling experience do you have as a bookmaker?
2. How many years of experience do you have gambling?
3.. How many employees do you have at DirectBet?
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1122
Cloudbet | Best Bitcoin Gambling Site Since 2013
Hi folks,

Happy Friday to us all!

Just a short note from us here at Cloudbet.

The operators should be the ones under scrutiny here. It's useful - and important - that we operators have a place to exchange feedback with our clients and with the betting community. It's important for us to continue to have objective open dialog with the folks who use our service. It's invaluable. It helps us understand the concerns our clients have, needs and demands they have, and is extremely useful in helping us make improvements to our product and service offering. Negative feedback is most helpful -- it teaches us the most. We must continue to strive to improve the quality of our products and services.

I would implore all operators who post here to allow the betting community to post their comments without confrontation. We - at least us here at Cloudbet - have a lot to learn from them, despite our team having been in the industry for nearly 10 years and in some cases much longer.

We're rated a B, or a C, or something. It doesn't matter what criteria the raters use, we can't influence that. What matters is the feedback we receive, that empowers us to improve the quality and breadth of our service. Please - be harsh, be critical, be brutal even, but be honest and objective.

Here's hoping all of your parlays hit this weekend!

Cheers,
Cloudbet
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
@ peeps


p.s.: can you disclose wether anoni does indeed pay you to promote them in this thread or not. I dont think there is any evidence for it but directbet seems convinced and afaik you havent clearly denied it.



Peeps - You've ignored me twice when I point out you never instituted listing whether a book has manual or automatic withdrawals.
 Why?

DirectBet, as you know, says it's because you are paid to promote Anonibet, and since they are manual withdrawals you are avoiding listing the manner of withdrawal for all books.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
DirectBet - "No Gogo, I am specifically talking about books paying Peeps to promote them in forums. I am not talking just about advertising on his website.

Peeps, if you are so certain that your ratings are unbiased then why are you not willing to put a disclosure on the opening post as to which books are paying you ?"




It appears you want to be asked to tell your story re: your knowledge of Peeps being paid to promote.

Do so - we are all ears...

full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
@ peeps

I agree trust is a huge Issue with bitcoin books.
 
The thing about anoni is that they fall behind far and away the books that would be considered the best when it comes to utility and odds.

My point isnt other books should be A rated, they shoulnt but the question is wether anoni should be A rated?

Maybe they should recieve a Bonus point for trust but do you seriously can point out what else makes them A rated?

I think none of the books should be A rated, there just isnt a book out there that deserves that rating yet. If we go by anoni standards any book in buisiness 2 years from now would be A rated.



p.s.: can you disclose wether anoni does indeed pay you to promote them in this thread or not. I dont think there is any evidence for it but directbet seems convinced and afaik you havent clearly denied it.

legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1010

I think the following is more precise and reveals what all including Peeps agree with:

Some books pay for advertising on a website which Peeps is associated with.

No Gogo, I am specifically talking about books paying Peeps to promote them in forums. I am not talking just about advertising on his website.

Peeps, if you are so certain that your ratings are unbiased then why are you not willing to put a disclosure on the opening post as to which books are paying you ?

Readers here are very smart and will be able to decide for themselves whether this has any influence or not.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Gogo, Bismarckbkk, WhatsBitcoin, Legions36 and all :

We take your feedback very seriously, as is evident by our thread here.

We understand your criticism about our odds and will continue to look for ways to improve our service.

If you agree with the ratings here, we certainly respect that.

What we are asking is that Peeps disclose in the opening post which Bitcoin Sportbooks are paying him to promote them in forums.


I think the following is more precise and reveals what all including Peeps agree with:

Some books pay for advertising on a website which Peeps is associated with.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 1061
I would also downgrade anoni , yes theyre the longest in the buisiness but is that the only criteria? If yes then all the books should have the max rating based on their time in buisiness. If there is a  max grade for time in buisiness what is the criteria to determine wether they get the max rating? Anoni certainly doesnt deserve its max rating on any secondary factors I could think of.

Lets assume anoni nitro and cloudbet both had max rating of A. Would anoni come even close to cloudbet and nitro? Even directbet is a whining baby offering terrible odds he has a point with anoni.
What rating would you give Anonibet? "A+" is the highest since there are different degrees of "A"s. Longevity is only a concern for books in business less than two years. With top books Bitbook, Blockbet and Bit365 going under, I feel as though handing out an "A" prior to being to a book being in business 2 years is not in the best interest of the posters that may just check in to see a letter grade. An "A" book going under also tarnishes the rating system.

The write ups and feedback are more important for those that read them. More detailed information is given. Let's wait until the World Cup to make upgrades and downgrades of the top books unless they have a problem. The World Cup is the highest betting event by far and will be a good indication of each individual book.




 

legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1010
Gogo, Bismarckbkk, WhatsBitcoin, Legions36 and all :

We take your feedback very seriously, as is evident by our thread here.

We understand your criticism about our odds and will continue to look for ways to improve our service.

If you agree with the ratings here, we certainly respect that.

What we are asking is that Peeps disclose in the opening post which Bitcoin Sportbooks are paying him to promote them in forums.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
I would also downgrade anoni , yes theyre the longest in the buisiness but is that the only criteria? If yes then all the books should have the max rating based on their time in buisiness. If there is a  max grade for time in buisiness what is the criteria to determine wether they get the max rating? Anoni certainly doesnt deserve its max rating on any secondary factors I could think of.

Lets assume anoni nitro and cloudbet both had max rating of A. Would anoni come even close to cloudbet and nitro? Even directbet is a whining baby offering terrible odds he has a point with anoni.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1010
The ratings were up BEFORE anyone talked with Anoninbet and Nitrogen.

That's exactly my point ! The ratings were reasonable at first, but then you changed the rules here so that technically, only Anonibet can be rated A, on top of all others.

That was AFTER Anonibet paid you. And then of course you rated them A, isolated on top of the list.

There have been several reports here during the past few days on Anonibet retroactively canceling bets, delaying withdrawals, limiting bet sizes and bet selections and various other negative feedback. Players are saying they will never bet there again, but their rating remains a firm A, on top of all other sportbooks.

You keep saying that the ratings here is "By the players for the players", but when it comes to Anonibet, you keep ignoring all the negative feedback on them, and there wasn't a single post here suggesting they are the best.

For these reasons, we are claiming that this ratings guide has turned into a disguised advertising vehicle for Anonibet.

I can vouch that this whole post from direct bet bet is false claims towards PeepPlace. Myself and others had part in the change of rating system. I have zero affiliation with PeepsPlace and u can check my history at other forums for many years and see how much I have been truthful over the years about books.

Don't you think that Peeps should be placing a disclaimer at the opening post, stating that he is getting paid by Anonibet to promote them in forums, to alert users of a possible conflict of interest ?
member
Activity: 103
Merit: 10
Guys - Please chime in even if it's just a letter so that we can move on. What rating would you give DirectBet using your own criteria?
As of today they would be a C+ at the very most and only because of the feature to withdraw each bet. Doesn't mean I would bet 5k here not even close. I feel they are way to new to have a rating higher than this.
member
Activity: 103
Merit: 10
The ratings were up BEFORE anyone talked with Anoninbet and Nitrogen.

That's exactly my point ! The ratings were reasonable at first, but then you changed the rules here so that technically, only Anonibet can be rated A, on top of all others.

That was AFTER Anonibet paid you. And then of course you rated them A, isolated on top of the list.

There have been several reports here during the past few days on Anonibet retroactively canceling bets, delaying withdrawals, limiting bet sizes and bet selections and various other negative feedback. Players are saying they will never bet there again, but their rating remains a firm A, on top of all other sportbooks.

You keep saying that the ratings here is "By the players for the players", but when it comes to Anonibet, you keep ignoring all the negative feedback on them, and there wasn't a single post here suggesting they are the best.

For these reasons, we are claiming that this ratings guide has turned into a disguised advertising vehicle for Anonibet.

I can vouch that this whole post from direct bet bet is false claims towards PeepPlace. Myself and others had part in the change of rating system. I have zero affiliation with PeepsPlace and u can check my history at other forums for many years and see how much I have been truthful over the years about books.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 1061
DirectBet- I said if an established poster complained of being stiffed that I would be all over it. I don't care about a first time poster that refuses to give me what I ask for.

I don't know why you have a hard on for Anonibet. If a guy walks up to me on the street and asks where he should play soccer at with bitcoins, I'll tell him Anoninbet. I don't want him coming back to me in a month and say that I promoted a stiff book.

 I won't mention Anonibet's name unless someone brings it up. I'm not trying to push them.

The next time that you start a business, you should make friends with competitors while you are new. Business 101. When you lie, bullshit and back stab, it comes back to bite you in the ass.


legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1010
The biggest negative feedback is from a guy that made his first post here at Bitcointalk. For all I know he may have been from DirectBet.

I don't know who you are referring to.

For the record, all our posts on Bitcointalk are done from this account.

It's sad to see that you are accusing us of posting negative feedback on other books from shill accounts.

That's a lie. And it is clear now that you do not have the creditability or authority to rate Bitcoin sportbooks.

Peeps - I'd made a suggestion earlier in this thread that you list with a book's rating whether withdrawals are automatic or not, since it indicates a book is operating on lower capital if they haven't purchased or had written autograding software.

You posted that you agreed, liked the idea, and would do so.

Yet you haven't done so yet.

You did not implement Gogo suggestion to add next to each rating a mark whether withdrawals are automatic or not, despite promising him to do so.

Why didn't you do it ? Because it won't look good if Anonibet, your top rated Bitcoin sportsbook, will have a mark next to it indicating that they process withdrawals manually. This will hurt the creditability of your ratings list, as such a mark indicates the book is operating on lower capital or is technically incompetent.

I stand by what I said :

When posters suggest changes that favor Anonibet rating, you implement them.

When posters provide negative feedback on Anonibet or suggest changes that might negatively affect their score, you ignore them.

This ratings guide has turned into a disguised advertising vehicle for Anonibet.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 1061
Guys - Please chime in even if it's just a letter so that we can move on. What rating would you give DirectBet using your own criteria?
C- or C for Directbet in my opinion. Too new, awful odds. Could find better odds at a C rated cash book anyday. Anonibet B- or B (cause you can trust them, otherwise they suck just as much as Directbet). Nitrogen B+. Should not be a single book an A because no book actually is good. All books do not have high limits or do not have good odds. You need both plus a trustworthy past to be a good book. Almost every BTC book has odds that literally would have my bookie customers stabbing me if I tried asking them for as much juice as anonibet, Directbet, Jetwin, and all the other scrub books ask for when betting. Anything below 1.91/1.91 pregame or 1.88/1.88 live should be shunned and not called a sportsbook imo. The 1.80/1.80 and sometimes as low as 1.70/1.70 offered by Directbet deserves a kick in where it hurts most for actually calling themselves a legitimate sportsbook, those odds are just simply an indirect scam.

And please don't say "wait til right before game for best odds" bullshit. Because lets face it, even then you barely offer 1.90/1.90 odds then except for NBA and probably NFL which everyone, even scambooks do.

Honestly, I could almost personally GUARANTEE that pregame odds tomorrow for all major US sports 5 minutes before start will be easily found beat by a different book. I personally guarantee a better line at casinobitco.in, nitrogen or webetcoins for every NHL, NBA, and MLB game, 5 minutes before start. Directbet? Who cares. They will never be the industry standard or leader. They will never be a bitbook or a 5dimes. Just a book filling the niche of degenerate gamblers needing 24/7 live betting while paying the worst juice in the industry.

You offer huge 8 BTC payout maximums? Ohhh thats great! When your house edges are 10%+ I could easily convince some investors to offer that much too. Just leave PeepsPlace alone, even if he is getting paid by Anonibet, they are a better book than Directbet. Unless you truly stop being greedy assholes and payout what the industry standards REALLY are, you will never be worth more than a C rating in my book and many others.
Thanks
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 502
I changed the ratings because Legion and others that supported the idea of grades being given too easily. The POSTERS initiated the changes. Anonibet had nothing to do with it. If that were the case then Anonibet, Cloudbet and Nitrogen would all be "A"s and everyone else below. The rules aren't tailored for books with banners up.

Also, the suggestion was to cap the max rating, not to automatically award the max rating based on how long the book is in business.
You got some feedback just as you requested, instead of complaining why don't you actually try fixing the issues that many many people have made clear, especially your AWFUL odds.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1010
I changed the ratings because Legion and others that supported the idea of grades being given too easily. The POSTERS initiated the changes. Anonibet had nothing to do with it. If that were the case then Anonibet, Cloudbet and Nitrogen would all be "A"s and everyone else below. The rules aren't tailored for books with banners up.

Also, the suggestion was to cap the max rating, not to automatically award the max rating based on how long the book is in business.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 502
Guys - Please chime in even if it's just a letter so that we can move on. What rating would you give DirectBet using your own criteria?
C- or C for Directbet in my opinion. Too new, awful odds. Could find better odds at a C rated cash book anyday. Anonibet B- or B (cause you can trust them, otherwise they suck just as much as Directbet). Nitrogen B+. Should not be a single book an A because no book actually is good. All books do not have high limits or do not have good odds. You need both plus a trustworthy past to be a good book. Almost every BTC book has odds that literally would have my bookie customers stabbing me if I tried asking them for as much juice as anonibet, Directbet, Jetwin, and all the other scrub books ask for when betting. Anything below 1.91/1.91 pregame or 1.88/1.88 live should be shunned and not called a sportsbook imo. The 1.80/1.80 and sometimes as low as 1.70/1.70 offered by Directbet deserves a kick in where it hurts most for actually calling themselves a legitimate sportsbook, those odds are just simply an indirect scam.

And please don't say "wait til right before game for best odds" bullshit. Because lets face it, even then you barely offer 1.90/1.90 odds then except for NBA and probably NFL which everyone, even scambooks do.

Honestly, I could almost personally GUARANTEE that pregame odds tomorrow for all major US sports 5 minutes before start will be easily found beat by a different book. I personally guarantee a better line at casinobitco.in, nitrogen or webetcoins for every NHL, NBA, and MLB game, 5 minutes before start. Directbet? Who cares. They will never be the industry standard or leader. They will never be a bitbook or a 5dimes. Just a book filling the niche of degenerate gamblers needing 24/7 live betting while paying the worst juice in the industry.

You offer huge 8 BTC payout maximums? Ohhh thats great! When your house edges are 10%+ I could easily convince some investors to offer that much too. Just leave PeepsPlace alone, even if he is getting paid by Anonibet, they are a better book than Directbet. Unless you truly stop being greedy assholes and payout what the industry standards REALLY are, you will never be worth more than a C rating in my book and many others.
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