#1 RATINGS and REVIEWS of SPORTS BOOKS thread. Poster input appreciated. - page 59.

FUR11

sr. member

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FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: Micon on February 20, 2014, 03:37:59 PM

"we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw.

My assumption of how it works is that you "sell" your bitcoins to them when you deposit and then "buy" bitcoins from them when you withdraw. You basically place bets through them, not with them. I could be mistaken though.

Rating Place

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 1061

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Quote from: Micon on February 20, 2014, 03:37:59 PM

Quote from: djarot on February 07, 2014, 05:26:34 AM

BitBook A
Nitrogensports A
Cloudbet A

agreed with those being my top 3 at this time. I don't bet on sports very much (compared to my poker play) but I like to keep tabs on the industry.

can't quite figure out why the op rated SBObitcoin top dog. after a quick look around, a bunch of things scare me. "we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw. that coupled with the fact they use pinnacle sports somehow makes me quite likely to never deposit even something small to try it out. Sounds like many layers of shenanigans. would love to hear the OP's take on the site. I saw they have pokers too.

Pinnacle is the best site for me since the hold is so low at -105. I also rated it high since the limits at Pinnacle are the highest. I just deposited bitcoins with SBOCoinbet and they put the money in my account although it was in Hong Kong dollars. It is a little confusing since 1 BTC = 6000 in my account. I also like the 24/7 on line chat.

If you and others feel that SBOBitcoin should be downgraded, then the grade with be changed. Your thoughts are valid

Micon

legendary

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FPV Drone Pilot

Quote from: djarot on February 07, 2014, 05:26:34 AM

BitBook A
Nitrogensports A
Cloudbet A

agreed with those being my top 3 at this time. I don't bet on sports very much (compared to my poker play) but I like to keep tabs on the industry.

can't quite figure out why the op rated SBObitcoin top dog. after a quick look around, a bunch of things scare me. "we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw. that coupled with the fact they use pinnacle sports somehow makes me quite likely to never deposit even something small to try it out. Sounds like many layers of shenanigans. would love to hear the OP's take on the site. I saw they have pokers too.

Rating Place

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 1061

Just in case someone missed this.

Quote

A player contacted SBR claiming that 8 BTC ($6,700) in winning wagers went unpaid and his account closed. On December 1, BTC Sports Bet contacted the player indicating that he would be paid his balance minus the winnings from the wagers. The wagers in question are:

606 CS Bakersfield -4.5
614 San Fran -2.5
583 Pepperdine +7.5
602 SMU +6

His account was closed on December 1 for "irregular betting patterns":

BTC Sports Bet: "After review by a manager, your account is being closed due to irregular betting patterns, with the recent wagers cancelled."

BTC Sports Bet then paid 27.53 BTC ($23,000) to the player. BTC Sports Bet has refused to give their reasoning for not paying the four winning bets. SBR has confirmed that the bets were in-line with the market at the time of being placed and that the bets were not past-posted.

SBR has attempted numerous times to discuss the complaint either online or via telephone. BTC Sports Bet first stuck with a generic line of not discussing details with third parties. At this time, SBR instructed the player to again contact BTC Sports Bet and carbon copy the SBR resolution team on the email. BTC Sports Bet still refused to speak with the player. After repeated follow-ups from SBR, BTC Sports Bet replied with the following:

BTC Sports Bet: "We pay the largest wagers of any bitcoin sportsbook, literally thousands of BTC per month, and have since 2011. We will not discuss the matter with you as is stated policy, but your facts are not correct about the user and the wagers. We are confident that we have, and continue to earn the trust of our thousands of users, as noted by the numerous positive reviews, including well-known third parties such as the OSGA."

SBR followed up indicating BTC Sports Bet have also refused to explain to the player himself what specifically about his wagers violated their rules and could possibly be grounds for not being paid.

One of the oldest and most sacred rules sportsbooks must follow is "you book the bet, you pay the bet". The wagers in question were not erroneous lines nor past-posted. No evidence was offered to the player or SBR attempting to justify not paying the $6,700 in winnings.

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/sbr-news/btcsportsbet-bitcoin-sportsbook-steals-6-700-winnings-6082/

Gogo ppp

legendary

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Does anyone have any information or personal experience with BitcoinLiveBets.com?

EDIT - Looked at their forum here.

They are a joke.

Gogo ppp

legendary

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Merit: 1000

Quote from: Rating Place on February 20, 2014, 12:17:23 PM

Gogo- It may be better for you just to start another thread on SBOBitcoin. You are not understanding the definition of an agent and why they want to keep some information private. You also believe that all of the entities involved have only been in the gambling business for three months. This is very naive. If you have a case of a no pay, slow pay or any other personal experiences, then post it. Thanks

"You also believe that all of the entities involved have only been in the gambling business for three months."

As usual you are misstating my comment, due to lack of intelligence or a desire to cloud the issues I raise, or most likely both.

Sbobitcoin.com has been in business for about 3 months. I think it was clear to all that is what was being stated.

Gogo ppp

legendary

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Quote from: Rating Place on February 20, 2014, 12:17:23 PM

Gogo- It may be better for you just to start another thread on SBOBitcoin. You are not understanding the definition of an agent and why they want to keep some information private. If you have a case of a no pay or slow pay then post it. Thanks

I understand 100% what an agent is.

"...why they want to keep some information private."

I am asking for clarification and verification of some information which they have stated publicly on their website.
Information which you have included in your cut and paste "review" of this book.

You have made this an elite 'A" book, and continually try to resist any attempts at clarity and further information.
Highly suspicious.

Let Charlie Robert answer the questions I've asked. They are perfectly reasonable.

Rating Place

legendary

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Gogo-You shouldn't play at any book that makes you uncomfortable.

Gogo ppp

legendary

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Quote from: Rating Place on February 20, 2014, 03:56:38 AM

Since SBOCoinbet [sic] has a nice deal working with two of the biggest books without complaint, common sense says that they want to keep this deal.

"Since SBOCoinbet [sic] has a nice deal working with two of the biggest books without complaint..."

1) They've been in a business about 3 months.

2) You haven't a clue whether there has been a complaint or not.

Gogo ppp

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1000

Charlie Robert - "You are most welcome to visit us anytime. There is no hidden agenda here. Exposing our address can be good also bad thing for our business.
Thanks for all yout quiry"

"There is no hidden agenda here."

Then please answer the questions I've asked you for the 2nd time in Post #171 above, rather than ignore them.

Also, when you enter the thread as a representative of one of the companies involved, it is helpful to state which company you are with and what your position is there.

" Exposing our address can be good also bad thing for our business."

Not sure what this means, but more importantly not sure why you even mention this. Are you taking obfuscation lessons from Peeps Place?

In all of the posting I've done in this thread, I have never asked for the physical address of sbobitcoin.com.

Gogo ppp

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

Can anyone here describe how SBObitcoin actually works? It seems like they actually deposit your funds to a Pinnacle account which you then login to. So the risk in this case would be SBObitcoin taking money from the account and not paying you out, correct? New to this agent thing, and just trying to figure out the mechanics and risk involved.

Correct.

Gogo ppp

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1000

Charlie Robert - I posted several questions to you yesterday. You apparently did not see this, so I am reposting:

Charlie Robert - I would like to play at the 3 books which sbobitcoin is an agent for.
But the history of internet gambling is a history in many cases of people having their deposits stolen.

Transparency is needed, the more the better.

What your post does is show me that someone, probaby the owner/co-owner of sbobitcoin.com, has shown up in this thread, and is making the same claims that his website does.
This is not confirmation.

Charlie Robert - "2) "2. SBOBitcoin.com is subsidiary of Ole Group International which is licensed and regulated by First Cagayan, so that means SBOBitcoin.com is licensed by First Cayagan as well.
(http://www.firstcagayan.com/operators.php)"

At the bottom of the site you link, it states:

"Please be informed that the following:

   http://playtongits.com
   www.pai999.net
   www.cnibccasino.com/eng
www.sbobet8.com
   www.12bet12bet.com
   www.i12bet.com
   www.odaiba777.com
   www.bet-mgm.com
   www.evin18.com
   www.578.tw/dev/v1/game_main.php
   www.test.k813.com/dfh/index.aspx
   http://abet99.com /
   www.ft332.net
   www.gvbet.com
   www.stsbet.com
   www.ibcbet888.com
   www.558bet.com
   www.865865.com

ARE NOT in any way connected with Licensees and/or Operators of First Cagayan Leisure & Resort Corporation."

So there are many websites trying to gain credibility by pretending to be licensed.

Perhaps you can help me by shedding light on the following cloudy issues:

1) What company are you with and what is your position there?

2)

Charlie Robert - "2. SBOBitcoin.com is subsidiary of Ole Group International which is licensed and regulated by First Cagayan, so that means SBOBitcoin.com is licensed by First Cayagan as well.
(http://www.firstcagayan.com/operators.php)

3. Yes definitely, Ole Group International Ltd will stand behind all the subsidiaries like SBOBitcoin.com and cover all the problems would be including financial problem.
Customer trust is no.1 goal for us."

I sought confirmation of this from Ole Group International Ltd .

Why don't they list a phone number on their site?
Why do they only list one email address, and then "restrict" that address so that they are unreachable?

You state that they will stand behind all the subsidiaries.
That does no good if they have made themselves unreachable by phone or even email.

3) "7bet-Agents.com and sbobitcoin.com are another affiliate Division from Ole Group International, in different target market country and currency."

Why does Ole Group International list 7bet-Agents on their website, but not sbobitcoin.com?

Gogo ppp

legendary

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Quote from: waylon james on February 19, 2014, 10:40:54 PM

Quote from: Gogo ppp on February 19, 2014, 04:56:04 PM

I have 3 or 4 other reasons for doubting sbobitcoin.com, or at least questioning whether they are legitimate.
Another way to say this is that I am still uneasy about depositing funds there.

At this time, I am choosing not to mention those reasons.

So you have information on Sbobitcoin that shows they aren't legitimate but aren't going to tell the forum?

Not at all.

If I had information that shows they aren't legitimate I wouldn't be wasting time pulling teeth here trying to get some verification.

I have noticed several things I haven't mentioned which make me a bit uneasy about depositing there.
Nothing conclusive.
There could be explanations, just as there could be explanations for the questions I've raised here re: their associations.
It could be awkward at the minute to raise the other issues, so I'm waiting to see if the associations they claim on their website can be verified first.

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legendary

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Quote from: FUR11 on February 20, 2014, 04:29:39 AM

Quote from: Rating Place on February 20, 2014, 04:23:56 AM

There are agents that will give players $100k worth of credit or $500k worth of credit at Pinny. If you get set up with this agent, you don't ask for their address and how long that they have been in business.

If someone is fronting me 500k, I'm pretty sure we both know a lot about each other.

Good point. I should have used smaller amounts such as $1k or $5k. You aren't asking the agent for his information.

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: Rating Place on February 20, 2014, 04:23:56 AM

There are agents that will give players $100k worth of credit or $500k worth of credit at Pinny. If you get set up with this agent, you don't ask for their address and how long that they have been in business.

If someone is fronting me 500k, I'm pretty sure we both know a lot about each other.

Rating Place

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 1061

There are agents that will give players $100k worth of credit or $500k worth of credit at Pinny. If you get set up with this agent, you don't ask for their address and how long that they have been in business.

Rating Place

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 1061

Gogo- The easiest way to explain it is that when you are an affiliate, you get a cut of the net losses or volume depending on the package. The player deals with the book and not the affiliate. The book pays the affiliate.

With an agent, the player deals with the agent and not the book. For this reason, agent information is almost never available. Pinnacle deals with high volume. SBOBitcoin most likely receives a percentage of the volume that they bring to Pinnacle. The same goes for SBOBET. It doesn't have to be that way but that's my guess.

Since SBOCoinbet has a nice deal working with two of the biggest books without complaint, common sense says that they want to keep this deal. With the bitcoin books, at the first sign of trouble, you should be very cautious. They aren't dealing with close the volume and it may be better off for them to run wth your money.

Agents can be much more trustworthy than books although there are many rogue agents that will stiff you. It is their reputation that counts.

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legendary

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With an agent, you work directly with the agent and all communication is with the agent. If you contact the book directly, they won't give you any information on your account.

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legendary

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Some books may say that there has never been a problem with a payout. It's always been instant. Then I go and read 20 similar complaints here and elsewhere, I just toss out a lot of what the book says in that tye of situation.

Rating Place

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 1061

There is also a chart of bookmaker theoretical hold that will be posted. We all would rather have -105 instead of -110.

Topic: #1 RATINGS and REVIEWS of SPORTS BOOKS thread. Poster input appreciated. - page 59. (Read 89538 times)