[1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 192.

kano

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Quote from: Geremia on April 18, 2015, 12:55:21 PM

Quote from: MissouriMiner on April 18, 2015, 11:17:52 AM

Great. A Block! I also sent some BTC using sendmany.

Thank you for the 0.39755 mBTC!

Quote from: MissouriMiner on April 18, 2015, 11:17:52 AM

Let's hope for some good luck!

https://blockchain.info/tx/cf1207fdf10be1d86db56f89b8155250f0b1269d8ec321fd1203716739816f67

Although the block only has 2 transactions… I suppose that's better than the previous block, which only had 1 (the coinbase one)…

I just joined P2Pool on 4/5/15 and am pretty pleased.

How do we determine the address corresponding to the person in the P2Pool who actually mined this block so we can thank him/her directly?

No, it had lots of transactions.
If it only had 1 transaction it would be pretty much as bad for bitcoin as the last one.

As for thanking them ... well it is completely random finding a block ... and they get thanked by getting a block finder reward by getting a small % of everyone's expected payout from everyone mining on p2pool

jonnybravo0311

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Mine at Jonny's Pool

Quote from: Geremia on April 18, 2015, 12:55:21 PM

Quote from: MissouriMiner on April 18, 2015, 11:17:52 AM

Great. A Block! I also sent some BTC using sendmany.

Thank you for the 0.39755 mBTC!

Quote from: MissouriMiner on April 18, 2015, 11:17:52 AM

Let's hope for some good luck!

https://blockchain.info/tx/cf1207fdf10be1d86db56f89b8155250f0b1269d8ec321fd1203716739816f67

Although the block only has 2 transactions… I suppose that's better than the previous block, which only had 1 (the coinbase one)…

I just joined P2Pool on 4/5/15 and am pretty pleased.

How do we determine the address corresponding to the person in the P2Pool who actually mined this block so we can thank him/her directly?

In cases like this last block, you cannot because the share that solved the block was either DOA or orphaned - so it didn't make it onto the p2pool share chain, and hence there's no record of the share itself. However, if the share that solves the block does make it onto the share chain, then you can see the payout address of the share (I'm just taking a random share here and not one that solved a block):

Code:

Share data

Timestamp: Sat Apr 18 2015 14:58:23 GMT-0400 (EDT) (1429383503)

Difficulty: 2852459.6919484762

Minimum difficulty: 2852459.6919484762

Payout address: 1Mag5XQcm81yP3rz8qJvXbU1KSWypKmPur

Geremia

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Activity: 507

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Quote from: MissouriMiner on April 18, 2015, 11:17:52 AM

Great. A Block! I also sent some BTC using sendmany.

Thank you for the 0.39755 mBTC!

Quote from: MissouriMiner on April 18, 2015, 11:17:52 AM

Let's hope for some good luck!

https://blockchain.info/tx/cf1207fdf10be1d86db56f89b8155250f0b1269d8ec321fd1203716739816f67

Although the block only has 2 transactions… I suppose that's better than the previous block, which only had 1 (the coinbase one)…

I just joined P2Pool on 4/5/15 and am pretty pleased.

How do we determine the address corresponding to the person in the P2Pool who actually mined this block so we can thank him/her directly?

squidicuz

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Finally! \o/

idonothave

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Quote from: MissouriMiner on April 18, 2015, 11:17:52 AM

Great. A Block! I also sent some BTC using sendmany. Let's hope for some good luck!

https://blockchain.info/tx/cf1207fdf10be1d86db56f89b8155250f0b1269d8ec321fd1203716739816f67

well done

MissouriMiner

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Great. A Block! I also sent some BTC using sendmany. Let's hope for some good luck!

https://blockchain.info/tx/cf1207fdf10be1d86db56f89b8155250f0b1269d8ec321fd1203716739816f67

Geremia

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Does P2Pool support IPv6?

-ck

legendary

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: Geremia on April 18, 2015, 02:43:01 AM

`cgminer` says my difficulty with P2Pool is 715 and 746 for my two identical miners, respectively. Mining with Eligius, my difficulty seems to be in increments of powers of two (either 512 or 1024 for my miners). It thus seems P2Pool allows a much finer resolution on the local miners' difficulties. Why is this?

There's nothing "fine" about it. It's a coding decision to set the share submission rate closer to 60 than 20 (like regular pools use), and p2pool's diff is meaningless apart from providing you with an estimated hashrate.

See: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/suggestion-for-how-to-choose-a-pool-difficulty-for-miners-274023

Geremia

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`cgminer` says my difficulty with P2Pool is 715 and 746 for my two identical miners, respectively. Mining with Eligius, my difficulty seems to be in increments of powers of two (either 512 or 1024 for my miners). It thus seems P2Pool allows a much finer resolution on the local miners' difficulties. Why is this?

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Does that include (as I said above)
The valid stale blocks?
Most of the stale share-chain shares?

The pool by design has a much higher stale rate ... MUCH higher.
That doesn't mean the work wasn't done to find the blocks.
The stale shares are usually ignored on a normal pool since they are usually under 0.5% - even as low as 0.2%
Here on p2pool they are of the order of 10%
So effectively you would be ignoring 20 to 50 times the stale shares as a normal pool - so that would falsely skew luck higher for p2pool.
Then to make things even worse, the blocks found for those stale ignored shares are accounted to p2pool as extra blocks ...

So yeah you need to include both of those to produce anything that's not a false representation of p2pool luck.

Geremia

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Merit: 253

I wish I had more data to work with, but here's what the luck distribution looks like (as of today):

(data courtesy Minefast.CoinCadence.com P2Pool stats)

manfred87

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Quote from: Geremia on April 17, 2015, 03:41:27 PM

Quote from: manfred87 on April 17, 2015, 02:44:27 PM

so what if there is one really ugly block in the sharechain, which leads to a "rejection" of every found block.. would we see this?

What would an "ugly block" be? And how could any type of block lead to the "'rejection' of every found block"? If it's a block, it's ipso facto valid.

i am in the altcoin scene.. there are many possbilies where a block has the right difficulty, but is not acepted in the network.. the coin daemon simply rejects it although you have the right difficulty.. maybe a block which does not include masternoes ( darkcoin aka dash ) or has other "problems". so you see "block rejected" in your log.. maybe you can ignore that for 500 myriadcoin.. but it would be really hard if 25 BTC were lost this way.. every aspect of a block has to be valid.. all transactions, etc...

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: windpath on April 17, 2015, 05:04:37 PM

Quote from: kano on April 17, 2015, 04:30:38 PM

This subject has come up before and there were some p2pool members who made it clear that they don't care about confirming transactions ...
I wonder how many of them ever used any BTC ... ever ...

Blasphemy! Wink

Seriously though, while we have (as a pool) mined a few 0 tx blocks in my time, the vast majority of nodes include transactions, which in my opinion is very important to do.

I'd also further argue that the vast majority of P2Pool miners do it for a love of the decentralized nature of Bitcoin and the fact that zero-trust is required.

No offense to anyone on another pool, but when you consider the mindset of your average miner, P2Pool miners care more about the network then most.

Just look at BTC Guild or GHash when they were getting close to 50%, average miners flocked to them in droves to reap the rewards without concern for the potential impact while P2Pool chugged along completely decentralized.

Yes, indeed.
I guess my comment could have come off as a negative to p2pool - but it wasn't meant to be at all.
That 'some' was only a few ... not lots.

Edit: some of the big pools start blocks changes with empty blocks also.
This is an issue I've reiterated about anyone using the eloipool software ... like Eligius ...
Antpool also does this.
They produce empty blocks on occasion and do it to reduce their rejects at the pool coz their software is slow.
They clearly fall under the heading of pools doing things inherently bad for bitcoin.
We don't ever do this with ckpool - I always use the transactions in the block template if they are there from bitcoind.

windpath

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Quote from: kano on April 17, 2015, 04:30:38 PM

This subject has come up before and there were some p2pool members who made it clear that they don't care about confirming transactions ...
I wonder how many of them ever used any BTC ... ever ...

Blasphemy! Wink

Seriously though, while we have (as a pool) mined a few 0 tx blocks in my time, the vast majority of nodes include transactions, which in my opinion is very important to do.

I'd also further argue that the vast majority of P2Pool miners do it for a love of the decentralized nature of Bitcoin and the fact that zero-trust is required.

No offense to anyone on another pool, but when you consider the mindset of your average miner, P2Pool miners care more about the network then most.

Just look at BTC Guild or GHash when they were getting close to 50%, average miners flocked to them in droves to reap the rewards without concern for the potential impact while P2Pool chugged along completely decentralized.

Geremia

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Quote from: kano on April 17, 2015, 04:30:38 PM

Quote from: Geremia on April 17, 2015, 03:41:27 PM

...

Quote from: manfred87 on April 17, 2015, 02:44:27 PM

proof for this: the last found block of p2pool has ZERO transactions: ( just the one for mining )
https://blockchain.info/block-height/351373

What's wrong with that? It just means more BTC mined.

No, it means less BTC mined.
No transaction fees were in the block - that averages about 0.4% at my pool.

It's also bad for the BTC network.
The job of mining blocks is to confirm transactions.
That block had no transactions, so the payment of 25BTC was got for confirming no transactions.

To look at it in the extreme case - if no one was confirming transactions then no one could use BTC ...

With p2pool it is up to each individual how many and what transactions they put in each block.

The individual p2pool member who mined that block decided that the BTC payout was all they wanted - they don't care about Bitcoin and slowing down/stopping transactions on the BTC network.
Though they are indeed hypocritical if they ever use their BTC they received ... since that will require confirming their transaction in a block ...

This subject has come up before and there were some p2pool members who made it clear that they don't care about confirming transactions ...
I wonder how many of them ever used any BTC ... ever ...

If they intentionally included no transactions in their mined block, then, yes, it is selfish; but, regardless, 25 more BTC were mined and put into circulation.

Actually, who / which address mined block 351373 with 0 transactions (besides the coinbase one)? Did they spend their award?

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: Geremia on April 17, 2015, 03:41:27 PM

...

Quote from: manfred87 on April 17, 2015, 02:44:27 PM

proof for this: the last found block of p2pool has ZERO transactions: ( just the one for mining )
https://blockchain.info/block-height/351373

What's wrong with that? It just means more BTC mined.

No, it means less BTC mined.
No transaction fees were in the block - that averages about 0.4% at my pool.

It's also bad for the BTC network.
The job of mining blocks is to confirm transactions.
That block had no transactions, so the payment of 25BTC was got for confirming no transactions.

To look at it in the extreme case - if no one was confirming transactions then no one could use BTC ...

With p2pool it is up to each individual how many and what transactions they put in each block.
The individual p2pool member who mined that block decided that the BTC payout was all they wanted - they don't care about Bitcoin and slowing down/stopping transactions on the BTC network.
Though they are indeed hypocritical if they ever use their BTC they received ... since that will require confirming their transaction in a block ...

This subject has come up before and there were some p2pool members who made it clear that they don't care about confirming transactions ...
I wonder how many of them ever used any BTC ... ever ...

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: alh on April 17, 2015, 02:04:31 PM

The title of this thread includes "Hop-Proof". While I expect that is really just hyperbole, I wondered what it would mean to be "Hop Proof"? Contracts with the pool members to never use another pool? Kind of like getting married?

It means it's using a payout scheme that you can't really game. PPLNS.

Geremia

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Quote from: manfred87 on April 17, 2015, 02:44:27 PM

so what if there is one really ugly block in the sharechain, which leads to a "rejection" of every found block.. would we see this?

What would an "ugly block" be? And how could any type of block lead to the "'rejection' of every found block"? If it's a block, it's ipso facto valid.

Quote from: manfred87 on April 17, 2015, 02:44:27 PM

proof for this: the last found block of p2pool has ZERO transactions: ( just the one for mining )
https://blockchain.info/block-height/351373

What's wrong with that? It just means more BTC mined.

jonnybravo0311

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Mine at Jonny's Pool

Quote from: alh on April 17, 2015, 02:04:31 PM

The title of this thread includes "Hop-Proof". While I expect that is really just hyperbole, I wondered what it would mean to be "Hop Proof"? Contracts with the pool members to never use another pool? Kind of like getting married?

You're correct. There really is no such thing as a hop-proof pool. As long as you control your hardware, you can point it anywhere you want to mine. PPLNS pools in general discourage hopping, but they certainly don't prevent it.

manfred87

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very bad luck at the moment:
12,96% luck = 8d 8h without a block
( http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php )

so here is my little conspiracy theory:
what it the p2pool system gets broken? will we recognize that? how?
so what if there is one really ugly block in the sharechain, which leads to a "rejection" of every found block.. would we see this?

proof for this: the last found block of p2pool has ZERO transactions: ( just the one for mining )
https://blockchain.info/block-height/351373

i scrolled a little bit and found no other block with zero transations..
so this is really strange...
so maybe something got broken at that point?

@alh
google pool-hopping ( pools with pay-per-share systems have a problem with people who only mine when luck is > 100%. if you pay for every single block, you can caculate really easy how your luck will be.). this is avoided in p2pool, as you do not know your luck in advance - you will know it in some days when you know how many blocks were found - you will get payed for every block - but you have now no idea how many blocks that will be!

Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 192. (Read 2591920 times)