Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 473. (Read 2591928 times)

Yes, I really think this should be implemented. P2pool share should not be found by a miner more frequent than every 30 minutes. If it happens, p2pool node should automatically adjust real share difficulty to higher number, so share time is still estimated to be 30 minutes.
Right now having about 400 GH/s will give you p2pool share every 30 minutes. But we have miners here with 1000GH/s and more, they are finding share in less than 10 minutes. If they could increse their share time, small miners will have chance again to mine with p2pool.

Maybe this should be set automatically by p2pool like the difficulty to keep the share difficulty lower and keep smaller miners on the pool?

Someone has a small bit of hash pointed at ZVS's server nogleg.com with the name "Mindlesss.worker1".  If I understand p2pool right, you'll never get paid for your work as your worker name has to be your payout address.

M

new work for worker: p2pool sends new work to worker every time a p2pool network share is found, around every 30 seconds versus 10 minutes for the bitcoin block chain (although new work is generated more frequently than 10 mins as it adds transactions to it)

Errors with new work: some hardware manufacturers ignore standard miner commands and throw away all the work when there is a block change. This adds negligible wasted work when blocks are 10 minutes, but lots of wasted work when blocks aer 30 seconds. Many manufacturers released updated firmware that fixed their mistake, but not all have.

Difficulty: You can set your diff higher by using the user name "username+{difficulty}" so if you want difficulty 16 shares returned to your node, just use "-u username+16" command line argument.

Node collection: This can be done and bigger miners are encouraged to do this to help out the smaller ones. You can do this by using the username "username/{difficulty}". So if I want to return one HUGE share that is worth 10x a small share, I log in with "-u username/1400000" I find a share 10x less frequently, but when I do it pays out a lot. people who find 50+ shares a day can do this and see a negligible change in variance and payout while encouraging smaller miners to keep mining by reducing small miner variance.

Node fee: Yes you can set a node fee by starting p2pool with the "--fee" argument. Run p2pool with "--help" to get info on how to set it up. What it does is randomly assign that percentage of shares to your default address so when a share is found, you get credit for it - not the person that logged in and found it.

Yes.

First, it's at least necessary for shares found after a new block is found to be orphaned, in order to not reward people for doing useless work. A preference for shares pointing to newer blocks that overrides the "first share received is the one to build on" rule was added to the P2Pool protocol.

There is no way for the P2Pool protocol rules to know whether a share came before or after the block - they can only see that there is a share pointing to a newer block at the same height of the (to be orphaned) share.

So, all the nodes could potentially only orphan shares that come after the block change, but there's nothing that prevents someone from orphaning all the shares they can, which would give them a slight advantage. So, I decided that nodes should be "maximally aggressive" and orphan others' shares whenever they can. This is at least fair, but it has the disadvantage of increasing the pool's orphaned share rate.

Future changes that make the P2Pool protocol rules more aware of how the Bitcoin blockchain works could potentially improve this, but for now, this is the way it has to be.

Hy,

thanks for the replays on my post.

Now i have mine for 5 days... no share. So i give up yesterday. "expected time to share was 11 - 14 hours)"

I see too many push "new work for the worker" and my miner become so many HW errors from this.
On a central pool the new work comes after minutes and not after seconds... less HW errors.

And when my miner diff is auto set to diff 3 or 2... so i cannot create a share over the pool diff... thats impossible or??...

Why not the node collect the miner shares and create a  big node share, and all on the node, thats make shares to it, become btc from ne node btc adress, when its higher then 0.01 btc on a week, or when its higher than 0.10 on a day? or the node owner can set this?

Can i set a node fee? so when a miner create a share from my node i become 0.05% fee? 

is there some logical reason that (any) share found directly before a new block is orphaned?

i have my node set to ignore the 'punish', since otherwise it'd be penalized for being fast.

all i can think of is to prevent these nodes that have the huge getblocktemplate + network latency from spitting out invalid shares based on the old block?  what other reason would there be to punish a share that is made before the new block  (and thus valid) ?

You haven't found a p2pool share yet. The 32k shares you see are simply shares reporting back to the node for statistics. The current p2pool difficulty is 138k. So you are expected to find one p2pool share after ~138k difficulty 1 shares.

The entire network finds a share every 30 seconds, not just you.

When you find a p2pool share, it pays out a lot more than a difficulty 1 PPS share, but you find them less frequently. Larger and less frequent payouts means higher variance.

It's possible that you will get 0 payouts for each share you find if the whole pool doesn't find one in ~2 days after you found yours, but it's also possible that it finds 6 (and pays you 6 times). On average, you get paid more than a PPS scheme. But variance is larger, especially for smaller miners.

It's up to you to choose how much variance is worth to you.

You need to find a pool share. Think of it as a p2pool block maybe. When you find one your payout should be higher than an equivalent PPS payout to make up for the time you didn't find a pool share. That's how variance work - and you will have a lot of variance at that hashrate. What's your expected time to share?

Thats confuse me. I have mine for 2 Days (Friday and Saturday) with 14 GH on mine p2pool node smileandgo.de:9332
The Node makes no pool shares. My miner have make over 32k accepted shares to the node.
And i become no payouts to my address or to the node address

Considering that my efficiency is over 100% and I generally pay up to a 3% pool fee elsewhere, I've left the Jupiter on p2pool - it's averaging out to 450GH/s so I shouldn't be too far off...if my understanding of efficiency is correct 

The CGminer hashrate actually behaves opposite on other pools.  It always reports lower than p2pool reports, but reports higher than other pools.  On BTCGuild and Ozcoin CGminer shows 530GH/s and the pools 480-510.

IIRC the graph number minus DOA, but you get some of the DOA back because everyone else has them too. Should check with forrestv, also note you are 110% efficiency in that p2pool output, meaning you're outperforming the pool on average latency wise and are expect to get 110% of what you would expect based on your hashrate.

Is the CGminer claimed hashrate lower with p2pool then elsewhere?  If so, something about the hardware design / firmware / or miner driver is brain damaged.

Sure it can be and very likely is, but indeed, it's higher variance for tiny miners. I don't begrudge you your variance preferences, but please don't confuse your emotional response to high variance for sudden expertise in the system.

You actually can't. You need to use a proxy.  Otherwise the broken blade firmware will flood the pool with invalid getwork responses because it ignores the target difficulty. Some pools will ban you for this, perhaps most won't but it's still flooding them with bogus work.

The asicminer firmware is broken in a lot of ways.  It's workable, but not good. ... and you can still use it with P2Pool, you just need to tell p2pool that this POS is going to return difficulty 1 no matter what.

really good explanation

share diff is determined such that:
1) a p2pool share is found every 30 seconds
2) no single miner is expected to generate >5% of the shares (difficulty is adjusted up to keep the total number of shares lower, just for them)

One more thing, the share chain isn't always 8640 long. It's 3x the expected work needed to find a block, or 8640, whichever is less. So right now it's ~45 hours, so a little under two days. (I believe that's what the code says, please correct me if I'm wrong)


All the math aside, what matters is that the expected payout using p2pool is greater than that of any other pool -- even for small miners. The variance, however, is bigger.

I don't think that's right, but I'm a bit sketchy on it myself.  Someone jump in here and fix any errors.

From my understanding, it's very similar to PPLNS (pay per last N shares) at any pool, except you are mining p2pool shares (at a 30 second target), instead of bitcoin blocks (at a 10 min target).  The share chain "N" is 8640 shares long.  When a new share is found the last share 8640 away from it is dropped.  When a bitcoin block is found, you are paid based on the number and difficulty of shares you have found that are still in the last 8640 shares of the share chain.  At a 30 second average per share and 8640 shares, that's 72 hours.  So if you find a share it stays valid, or in the share chain for a payment, for 3 days.  Or another way, when a block is found, payment is distributed for the last 8640 shares - which should span the last 3 days.  IDK how the diff of the share works though.

explain it.

e.g with a graphic.


I have understand:
every can make a node from the p2pool.
When you mine on your own node and you are faster than the "Expected time to block" you become shares on p2pool network.
When not, you loose all your mine shares. -> trash.

Only when your node can make a share, you and your miners become btc?

u clearly dont understand how p2pool works, so dont make any suggestions...

Hy,

the actually Payout System is not good.

You must change it to PPS.
And dynamic share diff for the miner.
So when a miner have 14GH diff -> to 4

So low Miner becomes coins for there work.

With the actually system, low miners must use the big pool with fee.

The p2pool system works only for high workers or nodes with many workers to get a high status.
So this will fallback to only one big node. = central node.

Or, many little nodes with "no shares" and no coin generate, the miners goes to the big pools.


A redesign of your network can help. And makes fun for the little miners.