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Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) - page 69. (Read 146909 times)

hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
Freequant should be ignored, I really wish there was a way to block specific users from a particular thread, it really would improve the general tone of these forums.
You see the "ignore" link under my username?
You just need to click on it.
Farewell Wink
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
The company Butterfly Labs is a new brand created for the BitForce platform
The company name "Butterfly Labs Inc." indicates a legal corporation. What are the details of the incorporation, such as the state of incorporation?
donator
Activity: 532
Merit: 501
We have cookies
I thought I've seen a lot of bad code. But Bitcoin ecosystem is completely pushing new frontiers. Or maybe Bitcoin is just attracting a special kind of programmers, who previously only created their ambushes far away from the open roads of FOSS?
Looks like you are using way too wrong version of Windows.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1073
Regarding the 32-bit env, there are plenty of micro preinstalled distributions that you can boot from a USB drive, or run in QEmu from any OS.
You can just pick a 32-bit image, build the miner software on it, and test from this env.
You are so very naive. The "ufasoft miner" is open source and you can download it yourself and try to build it. This ufasoft guy is a international grand master Philosophy Doctor in software obfuscation for the purpose of padding billable consulting hours.

I'm actually amazed and fascinated:

1) dependence on a precise packaging errors made by the Ubuntu maintainers of libcurl
2) dependence on an open source clone of Microsoft MASM (JWASM)
3) dependence on a poorly documented JWASM extensions to MASM
4) dependence on a very specific release of GNU autotools
5) probably other things I didn't bother to research

The only hope to build it without extensive modification is to use the exact release of 32-bit Ubuntu.

I thought I've seen a lot of bad code. But Bitcoin ecosystem is completely pushing new frontiers. Or maybe Bitcoin is just attracting a special kind of programmers, who previously only created their ambushes far away from the open roads of FOSS?
member
Activity: 107
Merit: 10
Freequant should be ignored, I really wish there was a way to block specific users from a particular thread, it really would improve the general tone of these forums.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
Ok, so let me start off by giving you the environment and setup details.
[...]

Thanks Inaba for the precise test report this time (glad to see that you improved on that point),
One point still unclear : can you confirm in which venue you performed the test?
Can we considere this test as the "live demo" we are talking about since weeks?

Regarding the 32-bit env, there are plenty of micro preinstalled distributions that you can boot from a USB drive, or run in QEmu from any OS.
You can just pick a 32-bit image, build the miner software on it, and test from this env.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
Your webpage reads the following claim : Rig Box "50.4 Giga Hash / S @ 2,500w".
That is 50W / GH / s, which sounds very optimistic knowing the power draw and thermal issues of the single unit
What will be the worst case scenario? Why not mention that straight away?
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Haters gonna hate on you BFL. Now all the FPGA designers are screwed by your product, they are fighting back with more BS and bad mouthing your company after they saw they are screwed and that this may be indeed, real after all. If I were you ( FPGA designers ), I would move to Russia because you seem to hate competition. Here in Russia they love monopolies ! Welcome. Free market FTW. I guess after about some time the people who buy BFL products now are screwed too as 28nm products come out in 2012 ?  

Actually, competition is one thing, unfair competition is another. There's a reason bait-and-switch is illegal.

Also, as RandyFolds nicely pointed out, I never "shouted scam" about BFL. If you review my posts made about this, the most direct address I ever made to the "scam" question was in this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.633227

Where I said the following:
Quote
I'm certainly not claiming that I know BFL is a scam, but I do find it very suspicious. To summarize, here are the things that strike me as at least a little bit odd about them:

And then went on to summarize some of the outstanding questions I and others had about BFL. Most of those questions are still outstanding, such as the alleged "other applications" claim. Judging by the test results, it does appear to be FPGA based, but they claimed before that it couldn't do anything other than SHA256. Still waiting for clarification on that. If it truly can only do two-step SHA256, claiming that it has other applications is seriously misleading, and is another way that they are attempting to compete unfairly.

For the most part, I intentionally tried to avoid the discussion because of my obvious conflict-of-interest.


In fact by how BFL handle the whole thing, its enough to see its their intention the whole time. What they're saying is basically "its not a big deal"..... thats enough to see their intention.
sr. member
Activity: 349
Merit: 250
./facepalm

He did not say he had 10yrs of BitForce related experiance.
He said he (he being who he works for/as/with) has about ten years of experiance with hardware building boards
learned circuits in grade 10
10 years later, "10 years of experience"

By this logic, I am quite the expert in masturbation. Anyone interested in a workshop?
Yes, thank you for that image.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
./facepalm

He did not say he had 10yrs of BitForce related experiance.
He said he (he being who he works for/as/with) has about ten years of experiance with hardware building boards
learned circuits in grade 10
10 years later, "10 years of experience"

By this logic, I am quite the expert in masturbation. Anyone interested in a workshop?
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 501
Watt/Mhash is one of the most important figures. With the difficulty adjustments during the following months, the running costs will probably be the bottleneck, just like they are today.
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1431
./facepalm

He did not say he had 10yrs of BitForce related experiance.
He said he (he being who he works for/as/with) has about ten years of experiance with hardware building boards
learned circuits in grade 10
10 years later, "10 years of experience"
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001
Okey Dokey Lokey
Care to give us a breakdown of your product vs BFL Labs ( maybe in your own thread ) so the average Joe can see what the differences are etc. ? How scalable is your solution ( in terms of units / area of space ) etc. ?

Thanks !
Shouldnt something like that be on the BFL webpage?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Care to give us a breakdown of your product vs BFL Labs ( maybe in your own thread ) so the average Joe can see what the differences are etc. ? How scalable is your solution ( in terms of units / area of space ) etc. ?

Thanks !
hero member
Activity: 720
Merit: 525
Haters gonna hate on you BFL. Now all the FPGA designers are screwed by your product, they are fighting back with more BS and bad mouthing your company after they saw they are screwed and that this may be indeed, real after all. If I were you ( FPGA designers ), I would move to Russia because you seem to hate competition. Here in Russia they love monopolies ! Welcome. Free market FTW. I guess after about some time the people who buy BFL products now are screwed too as 28nm products come out in 2012 ?  

Actually, competition is one thing, unfair competition is another. There's a reason bait-and-switch is illegal.

Also, as RandyFolds nicely pointed out, I never "shouted scam" about BFL. If you review my posts made about this, the most direct address I ever made to the "scam" question was in this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.633227

Where I said the following:
Quote
I'm certainly not claiming that I know BFL is a scam, but I do find it very suspicious. To summarize, here are the things that strike me as at least a little bit odd about them:

And then went on to summarize some of the outstanding questions I and others had about BFL. Most of those questions are still outstanding, such as the alleged "other applications" claim. Judging by the test results, it does appear to be FPGA based, but they claimed before that it couldn't do anything other than SHA256. Still waiting for clarification on that. If it truly can only do two-step SHA256, claiming that it has other applications is seriously misleading, and is another way that they are attempting to compete unfairly.

For the most part, I intentionally tried to avoid the discussion because of my obvious conflict-of-interest.
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001
Okey Dokey Lokey
./facepalm

He did not say he had 10yrs of BitForce related experiance.
He said he (he being who he works for/as/with) has about ten years of experiance with hardware building boards
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Furthermore, many probably would have ordered FPGA mining boards from the competition weeks ago if this product hadn't been dangled in front of them like a carrot.

I'm not saying this was all intentional by BFL, but it's what happened whether they meant to or not.

Your motivations have been pretty clear all along.  You're having to deal with competition.  It's important to point out that you have not been wronged and I have no negative feelings towards you.  Our performance targets were posted in good faith and in the end we aren't all that far from those figures now aside from power which isn't the principle figure of importance for most people since it's still a small fraction of GPU power consumption.  Bait and switch would be accurate only if there was mal intent.  You can accuse us of being power optimistic, but that's as far as it goes.  

Previously you were shouting scam.  Now it's bait and switch.  You're just mad because someone is offering a more competitive product.  That's all.

Listen, I'm sorry if your plans were disrupted, but please don't resort to slander.



Haters gonna hate on you BFL. Now all the FPGA designers are screwed by your product, they are fighting back with more BS and bad mouthing your company after they saw they are screwed and that this may be indeed, real after all. If I were you ( FPGA designers ), I would move to Russia because you seem to hate competition. Here in Russia they love monopolies ! Welcome. Free market FTW. I guess after about some time the people who buy BFL products now are screwed too as 28nm products come out in 2012 ?  

Anyway,

warranty ?

what is the tech behind your product ?

tell us more about this "10 year experience" thingy ?

Thanks !
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
BitMinter
I think you have a good product. But you advertised it 3 months too early (with specs you guessed) imo.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Our performance targets were posted in good faith and in the end we aren't all that far from those figures now aside from power which isn't the principle figure of importance for most people since it's still a small fraction of GPU power consumption.

400% isn't all that far? You should work for the government. fizzisist has not been here screaming 'BFL is a scam', he has been contributing (as an expert in FPGA technology) to the thread that you didn't have time for until a few days ago when you failed to deliver on a number of promises. Unfortunately, calling a spade a spade is not slander.

...aside from power which isn't the principle figure of importance for most people.

Interesting...having spent more than ten minutes on these forums, I would beg to differ.
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
Furthermore, many probably would have ordered FPGA mining boards from the competition weeks ago if this product hadn't been dangled in front of them like a carrot.

I'm not saying this was all intentional by BFL, but it's what happened whether they meant to or not.

Your motivations have been pretty clear all along.  You're having to deal with competition.  It's important to point out that you have not been wronged and I have no negative feelings towards you.  Our performance targets were posted in good faith and in the end we aren't all that far from those figures now aside from power which isn't the principle figure of importance for most people since it's still a small fraction of GPU power consumption.  Bait and switch would be accurate only if there was mal intent.  You can accuse us of being power optimistic, but that's as far as it goes.  

Previously you were shouting scam.  Now it's bait and switch.  You're just mad because someone is offering a more competitive product.  That's all.

Listen, I'm sorry if your plans were disrupted, but please don't resort to slander.

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