Topic: #2 Bitcointalk Poker Series (0.05 BTC & BIG BTC Ticket sponsored by SwC Poker) - page 18. (Read 5682 times)

I suck in full table but now improving. Here is another one, just finished LOL


Again last place in the prize position. I really need to improve my finishing. I had few luck in this tourney though but at the end that AA basically took everything way.

Yeah, practice 😝
But I am having fun.

haha similarly I spent the time bleeding out in the no rake tables.   

Does that count as practice?

While you guys are busy figuring out the best format, I am practicing my poker skills. 😝

 

I could do better but at the end I was too annoyed with the guy who kicked me out. The guy had over 24k chips and the 2nd highest one had 10k or something other one had 5kish and I had 3kish. This chip leader guy always goes ALL IN. Continuously, since he had around 5k ships. Everyone just leave their hands when he bets ALL IN. Sometimes he lose but the other side always have less than 1/4 of this total chips so he always recovers the lose. I got him twice too. But this time it did not help. I go ALL IN with a KJ I guess and he called. He had better card so he won and I am out. But before that I somehow manged to get the 4th place.

By the way, figure out the best for all. I am too noob to give input in your conversations. LOL

Them or efialtis lol.

How about everyone just play out the rest of this series and see if we have any further issues or concerns. We take a week of in between this and the next and see if we want to tweak the structure any further. There are a lot of good suggestions but some of this is just change for the sake of change. We will all have a preferred style of tournament, but so far these aren't broke and I don't see a need to fix it.

I also found it a bit confusing trying to follow the discussions mixed in with everything else. I made this landing page for discussion about changes and/or preferences.

Bitcointalk Poker Series format discussion - Let's keep them all in one place.

My thoughts are aligned with efialtis

I would avoid making too many changes, SwC has been good to us guys and we don't want to end up pissing them off.

There is already a method that is used and as long as most people are happy with it, I do not see a reason for you guys to change it at all. You should probably keep it, but if you want to change it I think this one would be too late to change now, I would say change it on the next one and meanwhile talk about what people want for the next one here, that way you will have people talking about their ideas and what they think would be better, and other people would give feedback on their ideas that way you wouldn't be just hearing out one person but hearing out everyone on everyone's ideas and that would be more democratic.

However I still think that this was done this way already and it was fine, I think people enjoyed and they are registering again, so I do not see a reason to change it again.

To clarify before I start writing this, I do agree to cut down the late registration or even have no late registration at all

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You still needs to be lucky to get to the top spot  

FOMA was there when I ( I am one of the late register player ) was down to 500 chips and all those big stacks keep pressuring me whenever I am paying the blind however lucky hands save my ass  

I am almost out before I even got into top 10 lol, late registration doesnt really save your ass at all if you are not lucky  

I just got lucky to be on the top spot this week and I could probably not going to make to the grand final lol as well. Even if someone "claimed" that they are better than most player , it doesnt means they will qualify for the grand final if they are not lucky

Even some of the top contender in the first series got shot out early on the game

I got shot down for suggesting exactly such a thing.

Its not about lowly players getting something feels like there are self proclaimed semi pros who want marks, looking at some of the discussions.

I can tell you that isn't encouraging noobs to get involved for the banter and fun of it.

Thanks for the link! There are some interesting ideas there. My personal fav is this one:



After adjusting it to our current game, we would have the following Points Structure:

1st: 11 (10 + 1)
2nd: 10 (9 + 1)
3rd: 9 (8 + 1)
4th: 8 (7 + 1)
5th: 7 (6 + 1)
6th: 6 (5 + 1)
7th: 5 (4 + 1)
8th: 4 (3+1)
9th: 3 (2+1)
10th: 2 (1+1)
11th and downward: 1

With this structure people would be still incentivized to finish in the top 10, so we would definitely have more action at the tables than if all places were awarded accordingly, like 25th place with 1 point, 24th place with 2 points and so on. On the other hand, I think people deserve at least one point for their participation, no matter on which place they finish.

+1. i don't see a huge need to change it (and i think cutting down late registration will help) and i strongly prefer a championship type structure vs paying out for points.

clearly everyone has an opinion about different ways the point system could work. there are dozens of ways to do it, and if you want to do a deep dive into all the angles, these guys have covered most of them: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/league-points.6199/

Hey there,

you guys are driving me crazy... :p Well, not really, buuuuuuut... here is my opinion:

Disclaimer in advance: It's hard to fulfill everyone's wishes and we will never get there...

- Personally I didn't really care about late registration because after all - it's not generally an advantage to join even after 50 minutes, is it? ... Provided we are playing some nice poker, it shouldn't be. Still, I will talk with the hosts and see what we can do.

- Regarding points structure: I understand the "pain" but on the other hand, as Hhampuz also stated, for me it is not an option to cancel the championship finale and just pay out based on performances in the qualifiers. Again, I really get what you guys are talking about... but this is supposed to be the highlight of each series and I am actually loving it (even though I didn't qualify ). As tyKiwanuka also stated correctly, it's like regular season and playoffs and as hard (unfair) as it may be in some cases, it's still a great way to run a nice and big community event when playing with fellow forum mates, isn't it? Plus... Men, I suffered so many suckouts so far... It's not like poker is fair anyway when referring to a series of 8 games. Last but not least - players who do well in the qualifiers will also receive some nice prizes on the way to the final so there is always an "incentive" - that final tournament (in my opinion) is supposed to be a big, big bonus for anyone who manages to get there.

If you guys wish I am okay with adapting the points structure even though I don't see the need you guys do - I definitely do not wish to run the series without a final game though and I hope you won't force me doing that.

Is this really a problem? I guess that players who intentionally opt to sit out are not that good players in the first place. Meaning they will never win the tournament and even if they get very lucky and get to the final table they will surly not get in the paid places there. As we have seen recently sitting out and not playing a single hand can give you points but I don't think that will work in similar fashion every time. And if you decide to activate after some time yes you will have more chips than some players but you will also have less chips than better players which is not a favorable position to be in, at least for me. I want to be chip leader and start chip bullying as soon as possible

Points from first to last is literally the best way to encourage sitting out (apart from an upside down last gets most structure). In this case they would be rewarded for sitting out straight from the beginning, in contrast to the fixed 10 place structure where they would have to fight for points when they decide to finally play.

I am 100% in agreement with this. I am usually registered days ahead of time. The game is at the same time every weekend. Players know this weeks in advance. So all the last min late reg and angle shooting is nuts. At least with no late reg players are penalized for sitting out by losing chips. I don't like players sitting out, but I cannot stop them.

Far as your points structure goes, maybe no matter the amount of entrants, last gets 1 point and everyone gains a point with each person knocked out. Only issue is 1 tourney might be worth 27 points to 1st, while 3 others were only worth 15. So, that probably will not work out to good.

To add to the confusion and drive efialtis nuts :

I would get rid of late registration entirely, because there is more than enough time for people to register (and unregister again, if they can't make it). If someone decides to join shortly before a tournament starts and has trouble to get his deposit credited in time, he/she can just ask in here for someone to send 1000 chips and send it back after it was credited by SwC.

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For the internal point structure, I would weigh the number of entrants in. It's harder to beat 25 people than it is to beat 15 people and with the structure as it is now, you get the same points, which makes no sense.

25 entrants
25th place = 1 point
24th place = 2 points
(...)
2nd place = 24 points
1st place = 25 points

15 entrants
15th place = 1 point
14th place = 2 points
(...)
2nd place = 14 points
1st place = 15 points

There were 18 and 19 players last weekend, so no biggy right now, but maybe for the future. Because a) more people could join and b) as far as I am aware most of us live in the northern hemisphere and summer is around. So number of entrants could drop even more and if you have only 10 players, it's not reasonable to award the same amount of points compared to when you have 25 players.

Now there could be some outlier, where you have a tournament with 50 people joining and the winner might qualify for Grand Final just by winning this tournament, but this is very unlikely to happen. And if so, then the player that is able (read: lucky enough) to beat 49 others, probably deserved his spot in the Grand Final.

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With the top heavy structure I don't know. Sure the player that has 80 points will start with the same stack as the player that just got in at 9th place, but he will most likely already have collected some more prize money along the way and is in profit. One tournament win - depending on number of entrants - will already cover the fees for all 8 tournaments more or less. But yeah, it's not easy. In NFL, a team can go 16-0 in regular season and then lay an egg in their first playoff game and be eliminated. Is it fair ? Probably no. Is it just the way it is ? Definitely yes.

My 2 satoshi.. playing for points that eventually leads to a grand finale is much more interesting and to me makes it more fun.  If you would do it any other way (top 3 in points just get the prize) this would disincentive playing if you have one or two bad tournys early on as it might be over. With current structure it's never really over until it's over and once you are in the top 9 it's a new day and a new game where it's all to play for.

Keep as is with 5k starting stack is perfect, IMO.

Now my idea for an implementation would be perhaps one game per week over 2 months as that could theoretically mean less variance and more stability as I know some people can't/don't want to commit both their Saturday and Sunday to play poker, depending on your timezone (I know current timezone makes it harder for any americans to play) it's quite the commitment indeed.

well it can be like half of the prize goes to top3 and the other half goes for the final game or something similar
there is indeed no perfect solution , personally I prefer this one cause it reduces variance a lot since currently the most important thing is to run good in the finale so even if you play perfect poker in 8 games and lead the series you may end up disappointed in the finale due to one single bad beat

at the same time the current structure is more newbie friendly as well since you don't really need to play good , all you need is to qualify then run good in the finale

so both arguments are valid IMO and really not sure what is the best

Well this sounds very interesting! I think we should add some chips for that, or to cut prizes for grand finale!?
This would be a real race for points, not just to get in the final tournament, it would be an extra motivation for every tournament! Like a league and cup in the same time!
I like this proposition, and I would like others to think about this and maybe Efi, Yahoo, tyKiwanuka, Hhampuz, Betwrong, and others can give some extra thoughts on this and maybe they can find a way to implement this in existing structure!

this is what i meant earlier about a more top-heavy structure. if everyone is competing for the win, the problem solves itself. but it may create a new problem---paying only the top 3 might discourage lots of players who don't think they can consistently place. the smoother payouts provide incentives to widen the field.

no easy answer there because strong players will lobby for top-heavy, more casual or marginal players will prefer smooth so it gives them a better shot. maybe the solution is somewhere in between. pay out the top 10, but skew points towards the top.

i liked the original idea---that the championship was the final table of final tables. in a large field, a final table is meaningful and should be rewarded and the smooth structure is good for that. i think it worked okay in the first series even with just 25-30 players a game. at <20 a game, i can see it's not ideal though.

the ideal solution is to get more players.......

Damn, it's all pretty complicated and not easy. I can understand your arguments well. I guess you're right about that. If we have a 5k start stack, it is also something else. Then we don't need to change the time of the late registration. Either way, a small adjustment would be very good. Luckily, I don't have to decide that. I trust that efialtis will make the right decision. Otherwise he can change the change again.