2013-06-13 Latest from FinCEN - page 6.

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4214

Merit: 4458

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 13, 2013, 04:12:43 PM

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

+10

Quote from: RodeoX on June 13, 2013, 04:14:24 PM

Did you guys even read it? This is a positive sign.

+10

i say this because they only care about the virtual FIAT exchanges. this does not mean mining pools have to start taking identification. this does not mean bitcoin-QT needs to have a registered usernames linked to birth certificates and such. its still all about the digital (on computer database balances of FIAT) such as mtgox/btc-e/bitstampt/vircurex/etc

remember the last fincen report

Quote

Convertible virtual currencies either have an
equivalent value in real currency or act as a substitute for real currency.

this means a digital database balance of 10.00 which represents a withdrawal equivalence of a $10 bank note. it has nothing to do with 0.09 bitcoins, 145 bunny rabbit credits, 10000 world of warcraft gold. etc.

runam0k

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1001

Touchdown

Quote

Again, keep in mind the combined actions by the Department of Justice and FinCEN took down a $6 billion money laundering operation, the biggest in U.S. history.

Love the way they whoop whoop about this victory, when Standard Chartered ($250B) and HSBC ($680B) were basically too big to prosecute. Undecided

herzmeister

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1007

soooo is that the downplaying "ignore you" phase or the covert-cynical "laugh at you" phase or the passive aggressive "fight you" phase? Huh

RoadToHell

sr. member

Activity: 260

Merit: 250

Quote from: hazek on June 13, 2013, 05:31:43 PM

In my eyes very negative as it still throws around "virtual currency administrators" without clarifying who they mean. Do they mean miners? Just the pools? None? Bitcoin-Qt devs? Any devs working on any Bitcoin software? Any user selling bitcoins for fiat??

Until they clearly say they'll leave everyone except exchanges alone I see this very negative for the short term.

Bankers and economists would need a mini-course to understand the word "decentralized".

But try to make them grasp the idea of money with no administrators, well the blood's on your hands...

[EDIT]
Removed embedded graphic image, replaced with link you can view if you want...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3018/3050354749_8d2ce85f29_o.gif
[/EDIT]

interlagos

hero member

Activity: 496

Merit: 500

From the beginning of the second page:

Quote

FinCEN ... reports to the Office of Terrorism ...

I know I'm hyperventilating, but I could never imagine they had the Office of Terrorism!!! Ouch! I mean should it read Anti-Terrorism?

Well, on the other hand, if you check out one of the recent threads
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ex-navy-seal-story-who-is-really-behind-terrorists-info-on-black-projects-231091
things will start to add up.

hazek

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

In my eyes very negative as it still throws around "virtual currency administrators" without clarifying who they mean. Do they mean miners? Just the pools? None? Bitcoin-Qt devs? Any devs working on any Bitcoin software? Any user selling bitcoins for fiat??

Until they clearly say they'll leave everyone except exchanges alone I see this very negative for the short term.

gnarl

member

Activity: 105

Merit: 10

Quote from: Severian on June 13, 2013, 04:15:35 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 13, 2013, 04:12:43 PM

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

I read it a little differently. It sounds like they're claiming a wide territory:

Quote

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

Sounds like the bitcoin community needs to crowd-fund and hire someone to Lobby for a Miner Exception!

Very quickly too, before they start making laws that ensure only businesses registered as MSBs can mine.

QuantPlus

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: epetroel on June 13, 2013, 04:44:16 PM

Quote from: QuantPlus on June 13, 2013, 04:21:06 PM

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

To be fair, it seems the event at which the speech was made was sponsored by the International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children (see second sentence of the speech) so of course she was tying this in to that theme.

You act like this was a coincidence... the entire speech was carefully staged.

As long as BTC is centered in Silicon Valley, USA...
With people like Gavin running the show...
Bitcoin is well on it's way to being neutered beyond recognition...
No wonder Satoshi quit and disappeared.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: epetroel on June 13, 2013, 04:44:16 PM

Quote from: QuantPlus on June 13, 2013, 04:21:06 PM

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

To be fair, it seems the event at which the speech was made was sponsored by the International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children (see second sentence of the speech) so of course she was tying this in to that theme.

that's true.

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1009

Quote from: _mr_e on June 13, 2013, 04:09:53 PM

does this apply to miners? If so they are most definitely trying to kill bitcoin as the network security would be destroyed by such a regulation on miners.

Bitcoin will survive just fine even without any miners operating in the USA.

epetroel

sr. member

Activity: 431

Merit: 251

Quote from: QuantPlus on June 13, 2013, 04:21:06 PM

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

To be fair, it seems the event at which the speech was made was sponsored by the International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children (see second sentence of the speech) so of course she was tying this in to that theme.

QuantPlus

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 13, 2013, 04:24:45 PM

Quote from: QuantPlus on June 13, 2013, 04:21:06 PM

Quote from: malevolent on June 13, 2013, 04:07:07 PM

Disgusting as usual.
These apparatchiks are using the well-being of children as an argument to legitimize the immoral use force against innocent businesses and people who cannot afford millions to engage in legal Bitcoin businesses.

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

she mentioned the word "children" three times.

not one of the times did she try to tie exploitation of children to Bitcoin or virtual currencies in general.

In the 20th century people like you were called "useful idiots".

CurbsideProphet

hero member

Activity: 672

Merit: 500

Quote from: Severian on June 13, 2013, 04:15:35 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 13, 2013, 04:12:43 PM

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

I read it a little differently. It sounds like they're claiming a wide territory:

Quote

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

Right, an intermediary, or a third party is a money transmitter. A miner moving Bitcoin to an exchange has no middleman. A miner purchasing goods directly from a store uses no third party. It's the intermediary that has to register, not the miner.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: QuantPlus on June 13, 2013, 04:21:06 PM

Quote from: malevolent on June 13, 2013, 04:07:07 PM

Disgusting as usual.
These apparatchiks are using the well-being of children as an argument to legitimize the immoral use force against innocent businesses and people who cannot afford millions to engage in legal Bitcoin businesses.

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

she mentioned the word "children" three times.

not one of the times did she try to tie exploitation of children to Bitcoin or virtual currencies in general.

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 13, 2013, 04:19:15 PM

and what else can you reasonably expect them to do about the exchanges?

I don't think reason has much to do with it. Fastcash4bitcoins was shut down for merely buying coins, not for exchanging them.

I don't think the Feds have much of a clue what to do so they're doing the only thing they know how to do: exert authority willy-nilly until the problem is subdued.

RoadToHell

sr. member

Activity: 260

Merit: 250

Quote from: RodeoX on June 13, 2013, 04:14:24 PM

Did you guys even read it? This is a positive sign.

Yes, I read it. I thought it ended abruptly. The take away is that virtual currencies are here and becoming more prevalent. Virtual currencies are under our domain of control. Bitcoin is on par with Liberty Reserve. Now let's adjourn for our closed-door meeting where the agenda is What to do with bitcoin.

QuantPlus

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: malevolent on June 13, 2013, 04:07:07 PM

Disgusting as usual.
These apparatchiks are using the well-being of children as an argument to legitimize the immoral use force against innocent businesses and people who cannot afford millions to engage in legal Bitcoin businesses.

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Severian on June 13, 2013, 04:15:35 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 13, 2013, 04:12:43 PM

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

I read it a little differently. It sounds like they're claiming a wide territory:

Quote

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

yes, but she says flat out that users can buy goods or services w/o any restrictions. that, at least, allows the economy to keep growing.

and what else can you reasonably expect them to do about the exchanges? whether or not they'll be able to enforce this overseas is another matter.

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: RodeoX on June 13, 2013, 04:14:24 PM

Did you guys even read it? This is a positive sign.

It's never positive when the government puts its eye on your business.

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 13, 2013, 04:12:43 PM

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

I read it a little differently. It sounds like they're claiming a wide territory:

Quote

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

Topic: 2013-06-13 Latest from FinCEN - page 6. (Read 6963 times)