[2014-02-06] Now official: using Bitcoins is completely illegal in Russia - page 4.

Arvicco

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Please bear with me

Quote from: bitbouillion on February 06, 2014, 10:08:04 PM

As I understand this, trade with or use of bitcoins is illegal now, but not holding bitcoins. Otherwise it would be illegal to hold physical USD or EUR on Russian territory too.

And what law prevents a Russian to buy bitcoins on a foreign exchange and keep them in a wallet abroad?

At least, so far there was no statement from Russian authorities on the legality of Bitcoin ownership per se. In practical terms, any attempt to police Bitcoin ownership by individual users will not work. Also, there is no law prohibiting such ownership that I'm aware of.

However, Russian police is not very concerned about following the letter of the law. They routinely miraculously find "just enough crack to put in jail" while searching any person those in power don't like. If they find bitcoins while searching the house of an opposition figure, for example, they may throw a "money laundering using cryptocurrencies" charge on top of all the others, and pliant Russian court will just rubber-stamp the charges as it always does.

ShawnLeary

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Quote from: TooCasual on February 06, 2014, 06:07:13 PM

Poor Russians... Their government is saying "WE ARE STAYING IN THE DARK AGES"

They didn't go back to communism when I wasn't looking did they?

Weird.

TC.

They never left it

oakpacific

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Being Russians, how can these bureaucrats be so ignorant about math?

You can't outlaw the creation and circulation of Bitcoin, unless you outlaw computation with SHA-256 hash functions and possibly, outlaw any logic operation as it's entirely doable to rewrite the hash function to achieve the same output, only taking more steps and longer time.

bitbouillion

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Quote from: Arvicco on February 06, 2014, 02:22:27 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on February 06, 2014, 02:13:32 PM

If I understand correctly it is also illegal to conduct trade in Russia between a Russian individual and / or legal entity and another Russian individual and / or legal entity in USD, EUR etc., so in effect this places Bitcoin in a similar position to that of USD, EUR etc.

Correct, it is illegal to trade, transact or deal in foreign currencies in Russia - unless one party to such deal is a properly licensed financial entity. There are multiple bank exchange offices everywhere in Russia, so exchange between foreign currency and rubles is not a problem.

Situation is completely different for cryptocurrencies. Since Bank of Russia specifically prohibited financial entities from touching cryptocurrencies, any kind of Bitcoin use is now considered illegal for anyone. There was no statement on the legality of their ownership just yet.

As I understand this, trade with or use of bitcoins is illegal now, but not holding bitcoins. Otherwise it would be illegal to hold physical USD or EUR on Russian territory too.

And what law prevents a Russian to buy bitcoins on a foreign exchange and keep them in a wallet abroad?

roslinpl

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Quote from: HeliKopterBen on February 06, 2014, 08:08:04 PM

Great! Everything is going according to plan Grin

according to what plan?

do you know something that we should know to?

(or you think you do?)

MEpatriot

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Russia will be forced to adopt it. The USPS situation proves the real world money masters are setting it up to be the global "reset" once the paper defaults.

notthematrix

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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Quote from: keithers on February 06, 2014, 06:18:25 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on February 06, 2014, 02:13:32 PM

If I understand correctly it is also illegal to conduct trade in Russia between a Russian individual and / or legal entity and another Russian individual and / or legal entity in USD, EUR etc., so in effect this places Bitcoin in a similar position to that of USD, EUR etc.

Yes, based on that information provided, it is in the same boat as any other currency in comparison to the local currency of Russia. I don't quite get how they will monitor if citizens are using it to purchase goods outside of Russia, or does it not even apply then if the transaction isn't taking place in Russia.

the law forbidding $ and euros is there since the USSR 1917 , nothing has changed and we al know what happend to the USSR.
and we all know that the $ was more used then the rubble so it will be with the bitcoin.

HeliKopterBen

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Great! Everything is going according to plan Grin

keithers

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This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf

Quote from: ArticMine on February 06, 2014, 02:13:32 PM

If I understand correctly it is also illegal to conduct trade in Russia between a Russian individual and / or legal entity and another Russian individual and / or legal entity in USD, EUR etc., so in effect this places Bitcoin in a similar position to that of USD, EUR etc.

Yes, based on that information provided, it is in the same boat as any other currency in comparison to the local currency of Russia. I don't quite get how they will monitor if citizens are using it to purchase goods outside of Russia, or does it not even apply then if the transaction isn't taking place in Russia.

Bobsurplus

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Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

Who cares... Bitcoin will rule the world with or without stupid Russian laws banning it.

roslinpl

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Quote from: TooCasual on February 06, 2014, 06:07:13 PM

Poor Russians... Their government is saying "WE ARE STAYING IN THE DARK AGES"

They didn't go back to communism when I wasn't looking did they?

Weird.

TC.

Maybe guys from anonymous should help russia bitcoin users.

Bitcoin is good for all of us!

TooCasual

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You can't be Serious?!?

Poor Russians... Their government is saying "WE ARE STAYING IN THE DARK AGES"

They didn't go back to communism when I wasn't looking did they?

Weird.

TC.

DuckDodgers

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Activity: 20

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Rule of law is still something of a foreign concept in Russia, so any enforcement of such prohibition would be selective at best. The Russia authorities often use routine income taxation investigations as a legal pretext to strike against "inconvenient" individuals or organizations. There could be a couple of showcase actions to scare the populace, but nothing more serious. With the rampant corruption running in all the powerful institutions and departments, the cryptocurrency could actually become a viable mean of covert payments in those cases.

giantdragon

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Russian people tend to ignore prohibitions and will use Bitcoin even more actively for savings and spending abroad! Wink

The only bad thing is that Russian companies (especially physical who cannot operate from the offshore) aren't allowed to accept Bitcoin so this can constrain adoption.

Arvicco

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Please bear with me

Quote from: kjlimo on February 06, 2014, 04:35:40 PM

So is this the same as when China announced a "BAN" on bitcoin???

No, it's very different. China blocked financials transfers to Bitcoin exchanges but otherwise considers Bitcoins legal. Russian authorities are very clear - any operations with Bitcoin in Russia are illegal. Any company accepting Bitcoin payments will be prosecuted. Exchange is illegal as well, even between individuals.

The big question is now, of course, enforcement. It will be very interesting to see how the first known case of cryptocurrency criminalization by a state actor turns out.

kjlimo

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So is this the same as when China announced a "BAN" on bitcoin???

AKA - not a ban?

roslinpl

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Quote from: Arvicco on February 06, 2014, 03:11:59 PM

Quote from: roslinpl on February 06, 2014, 03:06:03 PM

But. Do you think Russians will not use bitcoin cause it is illegal?

I dont think so.

Of course, existing Russian bitcoiners will continue to use it. But, it is still a tiny portion of a whole population. The effect of a legal ban is a serious barrier to a wider penetration of Bitcoin into populace. People are always wary of illegal stuff.

This ban also sets a dangerous precedent that some other countries with authocracy in power will be sure to follow. Kazakhstan was making noises about banning cryptocurrencies just recently: http://www.coindesk.com/kazakhstans-central-bank-ban-bitcoin-protect-bankers/

I guess it would be good for btc if Russia legalize it. But I guess nothing very bad happend to those who are outside Russia and price of btc will not drop.

And I guess, one day Russia gov will see profits from cryptos and will legalize it. If not now I guess in few years. For those time all russian bitcoin users must be aware

and trade btc on interweb

Arvicco

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Please bear with me

Quote from: roslinpl on February 06, 2014, 03:06:03 PM

But. Do you think Russians will not use bitcoin cause it is illegal?

I dont think so.

Of course, existing Russian bitcoiners will continue to use it. But, it is still a tiny portion of a whole population. The effect of a legal ban is a serious barrier to a wider penetration of Bitcoin into populace. People are always wary of illegal stuff.

This ban also sets a dangerous precedent that some other countries with authocracy in power will be sure to follow. Kazakhstan was making noises about banning cryptocurrencies just recently: http://www.coindesk.com/kazakhstans-central-bank-ban-bitcoin-protect-bankers/

roslinpl

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Quote from: thms on February 06, 2014, 02:51:24 PM

Free publicity for bitcoin in Russia

also I wonder what will be the news in the near future?

"Housewife arrested for saving 5 BTC in electronic wallet?"

Woow really?

well, Russia is Russia.

But. Do you think Russians will not use bitcoin cause it is illegal?

I dont think so.
But, unfortunatly it will be not as easy as for most of us.

seriouscoin

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LOL suck jokes..... idiotic Russian goverment...

So what stop Russians from using bitcoin to buy stuff online from retailers all over the world? Nothing....

Topic: [2014-02-06] Now official: using Bitcoins is completely illegal in Russia - page 4. (Read 10886 times)