Topic: 22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution - page 12. (Read 18771 times)

Wow.  So much here to comment on.

I too have questioned why God even gave man a choice to choose to disobey in the garden of Eden.  I think our gift of "free will" is a powerful thing though.  I like to think that God wanted to know if we would choose to have a relationship with him by our own choice, not because we are being forced to love him.  If we could force our spouse or children to love us how would we really know if they loved us or not?  

As for God allowing Jesus to die for our sins, the point is that our sins are a serious thing.  It is something that is taken so lightly in our world now though.  But most people are not grateful for what Jesus has done for them.  

As for the priest going to heaven for abusing children, the only way that a priest that abused children could go to heaven is if he truly repented and asked forgiveness for that.  If he was covering up his sins, and even acting like he was "holy" he would be sent to Hell just like anyone else that did not repent.  And many Christian churches have no issue with anyone being married outside of the church.  Those are man's rules, not God's.  Men keep adding their own rules to the Bible and that causes problems.  In fact, the Catholic church requiring priests not to marry is not in the Bible and it might be why there is so many problems with abuse in the Catholic church too.  I have other issues with the Catholic church but those are a couple. This is why it is important to read the Bible for ourselves.

I think that many people today, like you it appears, are what appears to be "good people."  Based on comparing yourself to others you are probably living a pretty moral life.  Because of that you are reaping the rewards of what making good choices brings such as healthy loving relationships and trying to make the world a better place.  This is great but the problem is that it does not change the fact that no matter how good we are there is a standard that is higher.  God's standard is one we can never live up to, and He knows this.  That is why out of mercy He has provided a way for us to have a relationship with Him and eternal life.   In fact, the Bible says that "those who are forgiven of much love much."  In a weird sort of way those that really have a deep appreciation and love of Jesus are those that screwed up more than others and have come to realize that Jesus loves them just like they are.  It is not about earning our way to God.  It is about understanding His deep love for us and then allowing Him to change us because of that.

You can question my relationship with God but I know what my relationship is.  It is one in which He has brought tremendous healing.  I have much gratitude of what He has done for me.  He has helped me make choices that have kept me from many problems in my life and I know that regardless of what difficulties I will have to go through in this hard life I am not alone.  

To me best response to a question, Ok then explain to me how did God came to be? A: He is the one and only, he has always been there from the beginning .. ( or something like that )...

But yes, i don't mind if people are religious, not at all, it just makes the world one funny little "flat" place to live. Even more so that adults are willing to believe in a talking snake, talking burning bush, woman created from a rib, that they love God who is willing to kill because of a revenge, God who commits mass genocide.... but yet they ask their children " aren't you a bit old to believe in monsters ".

Because the time you spend reading the bible over and over, sit in church and praying. You could actually do and learn useful things and live your 1 life like you want it to be. The chance that you're right is actually non-existent.

So god made up a rule that Eve couldn't eat a stupid apple, which she did. (if he created women, he should know how they are )
So than he made up a punishment for us, we would rot in hell for eternity because of that one stupid apple. After a while he made a child, and than killed it and said, you know what, because I killed my own son which was fun enough. You can go all free, but you know, those 10 laws I made up a while ago, you still need to follow those because else I will still punish you till eternity. And you got to worship me and be really thankful to my son, because if I didn't get him killed. I would make your lives even worse.

Yeah, I understand you fear that god, he has some real issues.

And why does your god gives forgiveness for everything unless you don't believe in him, I was baptized and did those 2 ceremonial things when I was a child (no clue how they're called in English). Mostly because it's tradition, my wife and I broke the tradition by not marrying for the church. We are both atheist, and that would condemn us to an eternity in hell, we can't get forgiveness for that. Even though we would never hurt anyone, we don't kill, steal or abuse anyone. Still we go to hell and the priest that abused little children can go chill on a cloud in heaven. Doesn't really makes sense, does it?

And the freaky part is, you live in fear of something that doesn't exist, their is no proof of a god and nothing that points in a direction that there is a god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment, which I mentioned earlier, is an example of a way to experiment with evolution.

Every time a new fossil is described, that adds to the data set. If a fossil is found which does not fit the evolutionary theory, then the theory must be updated to account for it.

RE Edit 2: I am not sure I understand what the heck you are talking about? What do you mean conscious states vs. physical states?

Okay, but at what level of scientific rigor?  We observe constantly, but those observations don't necessarily lend themselves to the development of strong, scientific theories.  This is especially true given that theories (which are ultimately mathematical constructs) often face the problem of "undecidabity," or the inability to determine whether one plausible interpretation of a set of data is more true than some other plausible interpretation.  As far as I'm aware, this just sounds like 'naturalistic observation' which has never been synonymous with 'experiment.'

Edit:  A theory can be complete, incomplete, right, or dead wrong.  I think we can agree that we're both interested in 'good' theories which are testable, replicable, supported by multiple experiments and data sets, etc.  Although I think modern evolutionary theory is supported by a large data set, I'm still having difficulty understanding how it is testable and replicable.

Edit 2: I've posited many times on this forum that, given the available evidence, there are alternative theories that are at least equally plausible (e.g. The evidence supports a theory that evolution in conscious states lead to evolved physical states rather than vice versa).  How would you propose we test the theory of evolution against these other plausible theories?

Rape and murder come from people being fucked up, not demons. I also don't understand why god made people that way then complains when they do stuff he designed them to do.

You keep saying "the Bible says", but never answer me what the bible has to do with god. You're just completely brainwashed by it being "The Truth", but have no reason, logic or explanation why it is so.

And I prayed a lot as a kid. Never heard anything back or felt anything other than silence. I'm kinda glad though, as If I did I probably would've been petrified, or batshit crazy.

If you want to test a theory you have to make a prediction first.
Then you try to find out how accurate this prediction is and adjust your theory.

Yes, testing hypothesis and theories is done by making observations. How else would you test a theory?

You say demons won't rape or murder? Where do you think a person's desire to rape and murder comes from?  

Even if I lived what appeared to be a perfect life it is not enough to earn a way to heaven in doing so.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God is what the Bible says.   Our "righteousness is as filthy rags" is another verse.  It is like a white sheep that looks really white on a lawn of green grass but on a fresh layer of snow this same sheep would look dirty.  That is the way we are before God.   And where is the line?  Where is the "I am good enough to go to heaven" line at?  Humans seem to arbitrarily decide they are good enough just by comparing themselves to other people.  It is almost like they plan on dying and going to heaven and then telling God, "I was better than the guy that murdered someone" or "I never raped anyone" or so on. Then they expect God to say, "Ah yes.  I grade on a curve and  you are in the middle so you are OK."  But that is not in the Bible anywhere.  In fact God tried to make it very clear that we can't measure up to the standard and that is why we need a sacrifice for our sinful nature. Jesus came to be that for us, out of His love for us.  

And as for hearing God,  have you tried?  It requires coming to Him in sincerity and taking time to pray and asking Him to reveal Himself to you.  That is a prayer He always answers when it is prayed with a humble and contrite heart.

You're either nuts or trolling. "How do I know my husband? How do I know my daughter? How do I know my best friends?" But they physically exist. You can't hear or see god. He appears to no one, does nothing and says nothing, so how can anyone be held accountable for being sceptical? And you shouldn't be scared of demons or ghosts because they don't exist, but you should be scared of people. Murderers and rapists are the nutters you need to be worried about. Demons wont rape or murder any one.

You might think that god has made himself real to you, but a lot of Muslims probably say that about Allah and Mohammed (peace be upon him). Has god told you the bible is legit? Why can't you believe (or not believe) in god and just live a good honest life without the bible? Surely that is good enough for god?

That qualifies as testing?

That method of "testing" seems more like observation.

Why do I believe?  Because God has made Himself very real to me.  How do I know my husband?  How do I know my daughter?  How do I know my best friends?  It is very much the same with my relationship with God. One thing God has spoken to my heart on many occasions is the verse "My sheep know my voice."   Also, there are "gifts" God gives and one is called "discernment" which is the ability to discern spirits and right from wrong.  I have been in a room and could literally feel that someone possessed by a demon was there somewhere only to have the person then lock eyes with me in a creepy way a few minutes later, but I felt the dark spirit before I even saw the person.  I am not afraid of the demon because I know "Greater is He that lives in me then He that is in the world."  To know Jesus really opens the door to see the world in a more spiritual way.  And like I keep saying, all religions are NOT the same.  Christianity is about being humble and realizing we cannot earn anything. God is the one that changes us and opens our "eyes" if we let Him to see. We don't do anything on our own strength.  Show me another religion that tells us that? 

The bible says. On what grounds is the bible an authority? Why do you not say the Koran says or this bit of paper says. If the bible is very clear about false teachers, how do you know it or Jesus are not one?  How do you know it's not the work of Satan? I want to know what reasoning or evidence you have for believing the bible. You can't just say "it says". Why do you believe the words in it are those of Jesus and God? Why do you not believe in all the other regions that essentially say the same thing?

Of course the word "salvation" is used but we are not able to save ourselves.  Salvation can only come through repentance, basically saying that we need Jesus.

In the Old Testament there were wars.  There are still wars today.  But one of God's commandments is "Thou shalt not kill."  Killing is not something God wants.  Does He allow for wars?  Sometimes war is necessary.  Let's take Hitler for example.  Wasn't that war necessary?  God does not like war.  God does not wish that anyone would kill.  It is part of the "fallen" world we live in though. 

Nothing I say will convince you that the Bible is the truth.  The Bible itself gives reasons for why Jesus is the only way.  He says, "I am the way the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me."  The Bible is very clear that there will be false teachers and in a way the Bible itself becomes the measuring stick in which to gauge what is truth.  But the problem is that if someone does not believe the Bible is true then this becomes irrelevant to them.  If you are sincerely curious about this the book I recommend is "The Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel.  A journalist decided to end the debate once and for all and show how Jesus was a fraud by doing investigative journalism, like he had done for other stories.  In the process He realized that there was too much evidence to deny that Jesus really was who He said He was. 

Isn't it Christianity that's about earning salvation? Pretty sure they use that word a lot in the bible and prayers. Fundamentalist Islam and hate preachers might encourage killing and jihad, but this is not a view shared by most moderate Muslims. The god of the bible encourages killing people and unbelievers, yet most people ignore these parts. You've also stil failed to answer how you know the bible is the true word of god and not the Koran or any other book.

Or that time travel is possible, let's not jump to conclusions...

If you find a fossil that does not fit into the evolutionary timeline, like if you find a dog fossil in rocks 100 million years old, that might shed doubt on the theory of evolution.

It's testable just like any other thing.

I've never quite understood how evolution is testable so as to be considered a scientific theory.