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Topic: 8th Alt coin thread. Or what to do now that asics are all over the place. - page 11. (Read 81547 times)

hero member
Activity: 1151
Merit: 528
(and who, to date, refuses to both apologise and acknowledge failure)
Based on the interactions I've seen with said person, I can't say I'm surprised.

That said, some people seemed to not like how they worked with both AMD/nVidia to develop ProgPOW to be GPU-centric and platform agnostic.. I'm not sure why, cause it sounds like a good idea to me..
hero member
Activity: 1274
Merit: 556
I really hope that ETH devs decide to fork to ProgPOW in the next few months and it will be interesting to see how many ASICs are actually mining ETH.
I've been seeing a lot of questionable things and accusations levied against ProgPOW, PIRL (ETH "clone") recently decided to not fork to ProgPOW for a list of reasons relating to how ProgPOW was made. I don't have a lot of specifics, but I know there's lots of questionable things relating to it.
The most questionable to me is the trustworthiness of the ProgPow wannabe figurehead aka OhGodAGirl.
Made a bunch of promises to the mining community with the Mineority project only to deliver nothing and completely sink it a few months later, leaving people with hosted GPUs and FPGAs in total limbo.

Scapegoat or not, somebody with these credentials (and who, to date, refuses to both apologise and acknowledge failure) does not inspire confidence.
hero member
Activity: 1151
Merit: 528
I really hope that ETH devs decide to fork to ProgPOW in the next few months and it will be interesting to see how many ASICs are actually mining ETH.
I've been seeing a lot of questionable things and accusations levied against ProgPOW, PIRL (ETH "clone") recently decided to not fork to ProgPOW for a list of reasons relating to how ProgPOW was made. I don't have a lot of specifics, but I know there's lots of questionable things relating to it.
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1166
My AR-15 ID's itself as a toaster. Want breakfast?
1/4 the hashrate on XMR now;  those ASICS really squeeze out the little guys for sure.


If asics/FPGA weren't manufactured and used in such a scandalous way, or if the hardware was cheap;  then they wouldn't be such a bad thing.   Similar to the initial BTC hardware days......    But over the last 2-3 years;  the hardware has become increasingly more shady in terms of price and time to public market...    which drove XMR to act the way they are by forking every 6, and now (from what I read) 3 months....

I notice a nice steady nethash now;  as well as lower nonces in the blocks recently....   This is a true telltale sign that the asics were owning the world for a while.  You could tell when the gigantic FPGA farms were turning on and off for a day or two at a time.   Block times and nethash looking like a roller coaster.   Definitely not normal... all of this is pretty much gone from the network now.


Such a catch 22 of a subject no matter what stance you take.

I am enjoying my profitability jumping way back up on my rig full of outdated hardware that acts as my space heater.

I really hope that ETH devs decide to fork to ProgPOW in the next few months and it will be interesting to see how many ASICs are actually mining ETH.

I am guessing that many of these ETH ASICs are private and were never sold to the general public, only the inefficient ones Bitmain sold which was a similiar efficency like a GPU.

I am guessing that 50% of all ETH hashrate is some form of ASIC or FGPA.

In my eyes;  ETH has always been somewhat shady....

Dev control of network...   Programmable nature of ETH....  smart contracts and the fallacies therein that have been exploited countless times now..... etc...   I could just never trust it.



But;  like other coins;  if it gets hyped enough;  it doesn't matter is nobody actually uses it for any of the root purposes;  people buy into the hype.

I too am interested to see how much of a shady foundation ETH has been sitting on nethash-wise.



Now these are just opinions;  and hopefully I made it clear why they are my opinions.  I do not expect anyone to adopt them, but just simply understand the logic behind them as my stance.


I hope XMR holds true.   I actually believe its ability to be an anonymous coin if used in the proper manner.
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1723
1/4 the hashrate on XMR now;  those ASICS really squeeze out the little guys for sure.


If asics/FPGA weren't manufactured and used in such a scandalous way, or if the hardware was cheap;  then they wouldn't be such a bad thing.   Similar to the initial BTC hardware days......    But over the last 2-3 years;  the hardware has become increasingly more shady in terms of price and time to public market...    which drove XMR to act the way they are by forking every 6, and now (from what I read) 3 months....

I notice a nice steady nethash now;  as well as lower nonces in the blocks recently....   This is a true telltale sign that the asics were owning the world for a while.  You could tell when the gigantic FPGA farms were turning on and off for a day or two at a time.   Block times and nethash looking like a roller coaster.   Definitely not normal... all of this is pretty much gone from the network now.


Such a catch 22 of a subject no matter what stance you take.

I am enjoying my profitability jumping way back up on my rig full of outdated hardware that acts as my space heater.

I really hope that ETH devs decide to fork to ProgPOW in the next few months and it will be interesting to see how many ASICs are actually mining ETH.

I am guessing that many of these ETH ASICs are private and were never sold to the general public, only the inefficient ones Bitmain sold which was a similiar efficency like a GPU.

I am guessing that 50% of all ETH hashrate is some form of ASIC or FGPA.
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1166
My AR-15 ID's itself as a toaster. Want breakfast?
1/4 the hashrate on XMR now;  those ASICS really squeeze out the little guys for sure.


If asics/FPGA weren't manufactured and used in such a scandalous way, or if the hardware was cheap;  then they wouldn't be such a bad thing.   Similar to the initial BTC hardware days......    But over the last 2-3 years;  the hardware has become increasingly more shady in terms of price and time to public market...    which drove XMR to act the way they are by forking every 6, and now (from what I read) 3 months....

I notice a nice steady nethash now;  as well as lower nonces in the blocks recently....   This is a true telltale sign that the asics were owning the world for a while.  You could tell when the gigantic FPGA farms were turning on and off for a day or two at a time.   Block times and nethash looking like a roller coaster.   Definitely not normal... all of this is pretty much gone from the network now.


Such a catch 22 of a subject no matter what stance you take.

I am enjoying my profitability jumping way back up on my rig full of outdated hardware that acts as my space heater.

Jared is there any working software for my thread rippers?

Im not sure how optimized it is;  but my build of xmr-stak (removed devfee) should work as far as I can tell.   Not sure how many threads for the cpu though;  id check xmrstak.com through all the benchmarks if they have them for cpu;  they list the .txt file configs and hashrates there.   https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmr-stak-jk-2107-compiled-with-no-devfee-updated-2019-8-18-3264773

*edit* heres a direct link to the benchmarks page: https://www.xmrstak.com/category/xmr-stak-cpu-configurations/amd-cpu-configurations/amd-ryzen/threadripper/

Looks like for threadripper, it wants one process per each even thread:  cpu 2, cpu4, cpu6, etc......  youll see it in the config examples.

XMR-Stak works with CPU, AMD and Nvidia.  All cards supported from GTX6xx-RTX20xx, and AFAIK, all the AMD cards supported in the blockchain drivers are compatible with XMR-stak as well.   Your old Rx560 works fine =)   It's about the only thing it does for now;   I feel its a good idea to keep it in a rig for testing builds and nibbling some coin to save for very long term.    I dont have any plans to spend my xmr anymore for at least 5-10 years.

If you need help with it LMK =)
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
1/4 the hashrate on XMR now;  those ASICS really squeeze out the little guys for sure.


If asics/FPGA weren't manufactured and used in such a scandalous way, or if the hardware was cheap;  then they wouldn't be such a bad thing.   Similar to the initial BTC hardware days......    But over the last 2-3 years;  the hardware has become increasingly more shady in terms of price and time to public market...    which drove XMR to act the way they are by forking every 6, and now (from what I read) 3 months....

I notice a nice steady nethash now;  as well as lower nonces in the blocks recently....   This is a true telltale sign that the asics were owning the world for a while.  You could tell when the gigantic FPGA farms were turning on and off for a day or two at a time.   Block times and nethash looking like a roller coaster.   Definitely not normal... all of this is pretty much gone from the network now.


Such a catch 22 of a subject no matter what stance you take.

I am enjoying my profitability jumping way back up on my rig full of outdated hardware that acts as my space heater.

Jared is there any working software for my thread rippers?
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1166
My AR-15 ID's itself as a toaster. Want breakfast?
1/4 the hashrate on XMR now;  those ASICS really squeeze out the little guys for sure.


If asics/FPGA weren't manufactured and used in such a scandalous way, or if the hardware was cheap;  then they wouldn't be such a bad thing.   Similar to the initial BTC hardware days......    But over the last 2-3 years;  the hardware has become increasingly more shady in terms of price and time to public market...    which drove XMR to act the way they are by forking every 6, and now (from what I read) 3 months....

I notice a nice steady nethash now;  as well as lower nonces in the blocks recently....   This is a true telltale sign that the asics were owning the world for a while.  You could tell when the gigantic FPGA farms were turning on and off for a day or two at a time.   Block times and nethash looking like a roller coaster.   Definitely not normal... all of this is pretty much gone from the network now.


Such a catch 22 of a subject no matter what stance you take.

I am enjoying my profitability jumping way back up on my rig full of outdated hardware that acts as my space heater.
full member
Activity: 1123
Merit: 136
...

This Spotswood kit is really helpful for 4U builds, but the screws and parts are tiny (frustrating at first): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fs-bracket-to-mount-7-gpus-at-front-of-rosewill-l4xxx-server-chassis-updated-1731197

Your first "Spotswood" build will leave you cursing, the second will be much easier.  If you are of my age, you will need those reader glasses to handle the tiny screws.  But his designs are elegant in some ways.

...


I had one client that assembled over 100 of those brackets.  Shocked  Much respect to that man. Grin


That poor bastard  Cry
sr. member
Activity: 512
Merit: 250
...

This Spotswood kit is really helpful for 4U builds, but the screws and parts are tiny (frustrating at first): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fs-bracket-to-mount-7-gpus-at-front-of-rosewill-l4xxx-server-chassis-updated-1731197

Your first "Spotswood" build will leave you cursing, the second will be much easier.  If you are of my age, you will need those reader glasses to handle the tiny screws.  But his designs are elegant in some ways.

...


I had one client that assembled over 100 of those brackets.  Shocked  Much respect to that man. Grin
hero member
Activity: 729
Merit: 513
Currently, what's the best miner for  XMR:

XMR-Stak?
XMR rig?
Other?

At least for Vega's the best is teamredminer 0.4.2.
jr. member
Activity: 85
Merit: 6
Currently, what's the best miner for  XMR:

XMR-Stak?
XMR rig?
Other?
sr. member
Activity: 487
Merit: 266
XMR has made my Vegas profitable to run again!

...at least for the next few days.
...not yet at the ugly $0.16/KWh I'm dishing out for power, but if it keeps going in the right direction, it might just fairly soon!
There's no secret though. Prices need to go up for profits to rise as well. Wonder how long it'll take for Asics (and FPGAs) to kick into gear and up the diff on CN/r.

Oh btw have any other coins forked to CN/r yet, or only XMR thus far?

Is it still true to say that Cryptonight algo (including the forks) is still lowest in power consumption compared to all the other algos?

Yes it's the lowest power usage mining algo out there. I am actually trying to build a enclosed rig which is more living room friendly when the guests or family arrive. Seems with adequate cooling you can easily do 5-6 GPUs in a server chassis without the temps going up or without the fans going max speed.

XMR however is not as easy as ETH to set up properly. The bios needs to be difficult and if you take the time to tune each GPU individually you can get decent power efficiency.

So it's a good thing that it's hard to tune because most lazy miners might just stay on ETH using Claymore. Should keep the difficulty low temporarily.... until the FGPA arrive again that is.


I would say XMR mining is consuming less power only by a small margin now...
Here is some numbers from my test rig with 2 x Sapphire Pulse RX 574 cards.
Here goes
system idle  43 Watts
XMR mining: 240 Watts, Hashrate: 1870H/s    1150/1975
ETH mining:  255 Watts, hashrate: 61 MH/s    1100/2000
The XMR power usage is average figure since it fluctuates between 230 and 260 Watts.  I probably need to tune the GPUs more with XMR..
Even rebooting the rig with the same GPU config will yield a different hashrate/power figure.  With ETH mining it is really easy...
My other rigs are all mining just ETH, just for the of configuring..


You know, the "this or that algo is consuming less power than xyz" is a bit of a fallacy.
It all depends how much you want to achieve.
Whilst I agree that ETH doesn't gain much from upping core clocks and voltage, XMR scales better. Nobody says you should run your Vegas at 1408/1100 to mine XMR. You could achieve quite a lot more hashrate for 10-20% more power to the core.

On the other side of the spectrum, ProgPow sucks everything out of your cards, but you don't have to run them at these speeds. You can underclock/-volt them and they'll certainly draw less power.

Lyra2z was a prime example. Remember in early 2018... The GPU miners we had available achieved crap hashrates... but everyone was claiming "oh but it's so power efficient". A year and a few "optimisations" later and that efficiency is completely gone. You've got a lot more hash out of your GPUs, but they now draw at least as much as any other algo.

I haven't mined anything Ethash in a long while, stuck to cryptonight based coins for over a year now. Not that they are more profitable, but my GPUs and rigs are generaly more stable. I don't know about you guys, but while tweaking GPUs to get one more megahash out of ETH was fun in the beginning, I would really hate having to go through this again nowadays. Testing, flashing, debugging, I just don't have time for it anymore.

When I was mining ETH I recall I always had a GPU bugging out on me at some point which made it a nightmare to debug sometimes.

I must say that with cryptonight coins, I seldom have a GPU that crashes and it does use a bit less power. I'm not sure I could run an 8 card rig (470/570) on a single 1200W PSU on ETHash today. So yeah, XMR definitely scales better.
jr. member
Activity: 85
Merit: 6
XMR has made my Vegas profitable to run again!

...at least for the next few days.
...not yet at the ugly $0.16/KWh I'm dishing out for power, but if it keeps going in the right direction, it might just fairly soon!
There's no secret though. Prices need to go up for profits to rise as well. Wonder how long it'll take for Asics (and FPGAs) to kick into gear and up the diff on CN/r.

Oh btw have any other coins forked to CN/r yet, or only XMR thus far?

Is it still true to say that Cryptonight algo (including the forks) is still lowest in power consumption compared to all the other algos?

Yes it's the lowest power usage mining algo out there. I am actually trying to build a enclosed rig which is more living room friendly when the guests or family arrive. Seems with adequate cooling you can easily do 5-6 GPUs in a server chassis without the temps going up or without the fans going max speed.

XMR however is not as easy as ETH to set up properly. The bios needs to be difficult and if you take the time to tune each GPU individually you can get decent power efficiency.

So it's a good thing that it's hard to tune because most lazy miners might just stay on ETH using Claymore. Should keep the difficulty low temporarily.... until the FGPA arrive again that is.

I've set up one of these using a Thermaltake Core X5 case. I'm running 7 x 470 MSI Twin Frozen 470 GPUs. It:'s quiet and most of the GPUs stay below 60 C.
I'm Canadian too. If you're near Toronto, you're welcome to drop by and take a look.
hero member
Activity: 1274
Merit: 556
XMR has made my Vegas profitable to run again!

...at least for the next few days.
...not yet at the ugly $0.16/KWh I'm dishing out for power, but if it keeps going in the right direction, it might just fairly soon!
There's no secret though. Prices need to go up for profits to rise as well. Wonder how long it'll take for Asics (and FPGAs) to kick into gear and up the diff on CN/r.

Oh btw have any other coins forked to CN/r yet, or only XMR thus far?

Is it still true to say that Cryptonight algo (including the forks) is still lowest in power consumption compared to all the other algos?

Yes it's the lowest power usage mining algo out there. I am actually trying to build a enclosed rig which is more living room friendly when the guests or family arrive. Seems with adequate cooling you can easily do 5-6 GPUs in a server chassis without the temps going up or without the fans going max speed.

XMR however is not as easy as ETH to set up properly. The bios needs to be difficult and if you take the time to tune each GPU individually you can get decent power efficiency.

So it's a good thing that it's hard to tune because most lazy miners might just stay on ETH using Claymore. Should keep the difficulty low temporarily.... until the FGPA arrive again that is.


I would say XMR mining is consuming less power only by a small margin now...
Here is some numbers from my test rig with 2 x Sapphire Pulse RX 574 cards.
Here goes
system idle  43 Watts
XMR mining: 240 Watts, Hashrate: 1870H/s    1150/1975
ETH mining:  255 Watts, hashrate: 61 MH/s    1100/2000
The XMR power usage is average figure since it fluctuates between 230 and 260 Watts.  I probably need to tune the GPUs more with XMR..
Even rebooting the rig with the same GPU config will yield a different hashrate/power figure.  With ETH mining it is really easy...
My other rigs are all mining just ETH, just for the of configuring..


You know, the "this or that algo is consuming less power than xyz" is a bit of a fallacy.
It all depends how much you want to achieve.
Whilst I agree that ETH doesn't gain much from upping core clocks and voltage, XMR scales better. Nobody says you should run your Vegas at 1408/1100 to mine XMR. You could achieve quite a lot more hashrate for 10-20% more power to the core.

On the other side of the spectrum, ProgPow sucks everything out of your cards, but you don't have to run them at these speeds. You can underclock/-volt them and they'll certainly draw less power.

Lyra2z was a prime example. Remember in early 2018... The GPU miners we had available achieved crap hashrates... but everyone was claiming "oh but it's so power efficient". A year and a few "optimisations" later and that efficiency is completely gone. You've got a lot more hash out of your GPUs, but they now draw at least as much as any other algo.
full member
Activity: 279
Merit: 104
XMR has made my Vegas profitable to run again!

...at least for the next few days.
...not yet at the ugly $0.16/KWh I'm dishing out for power, but if it keeps going in the right direction, it might just fairly soon!
There's no secret though. Prices need to go up for profits to rise as well. Wonder how long it'll take for Asics (and FPGAs) to kick into gear and up the diff on CN/r.

Oh btw have any other coins forked to CN/r yet, or only XMR thus far?

Is it still true to say that Cryptonight algo (including the forks) is still lowest in power consumption compared to all the other algos?

Yes it's the lowest power usage mining algo out there. I am actually trying to build a enclosed rig which is more living room friendly when the guests or family arrive. Seems with adequate cooling you can easily do 5-6 GPUs in a server chassis without the temps going up or without the fans going max speed.

XMR however is not as easy as ETH to set up properly. The bios needs to be difficult and if you take the time to tune each GPU individually you can get decent power efficiency.

So it's a good thing that it's hard to tune because most lazy miners might just stay on ETH using Claymore. Should keep the difficulty low temporarily.... until the FGPA arrive again that is.


I would say XMR mining is consuming less power only by a small margin now...
Here is some numbers from my test rig with 2 x Sapphire Pulse RX 574 cards.
Here goes
system idle  43 Watts
XMR mining: 240 Watts, Hashrate: 1870H/s    1150/1975
ETH mining:  255 Watts, hashrate: 61 MH/s    1100/2000
The XMR power usage is average figure since it fluctuates between 230 and 260 Watts.  I probably need to tune the GPUs more with XMR..
Even rebooting the rig with the same GPU config will yield a different hashrate/power figure.  With ETH mining it is really easy...
My other rigs are all mining just ETH, just for the of configuring..

hero member
Activity: 1151
Merit: 528
Well that profitability was short lived..
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 184

Is it still true to say that Cryptonight algo (including the forks) is still lowest in power consumption compared to all the other algos?

The latest CN fork - r, v4, whatever it's called - uses a little more power than the previous fork for my mix of RX 570 and RX 560 cards, but overall it is still using less than Ethash. And I am not even undervolting or power limiting the cards anymore (got tired of chasing stability problems - figured it was better to use 10% more power and not wake up to a rig that crashed right after I went to sleep [because that's when they always crash, amirite?]).

jr. member
Activity: 145
Merit: 1
What miner do you use ?

because i have tested all configs on my rx580 farm and i'm not profitable on any of them.

I got 915h/s for 106W per card on Monero it is not profitable with my electricity cost :

https://whattomine.com/coins/101-xmr-cryptonightr?utf8=%E2%9C%93&hr=915.0&p=106.0&fee=0.0&cost=0.15&hcost=0.0&commit=Calculate
sr. member
Activity: 784
Merit: 282
XMR has made my Vegas profitable to run again!

...at least for the next few days.

I've been out of the altcoin mining scene for quite some time now and the Monero charts really do look enticing.
( i'm basing from https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/monero-difficulty-chart )

if the developers really docommit to forking every 90 days then this is a sure reason to turn on my Vega rig again, esp. if you're like philipma who has solar panels.
too bad i already sold some of my Vega56s!
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