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Topic: A German comedian could be sent to jail for insulting the Turkish president - page 6. (Read 7562 times)

legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
Answer is very simple, they're not Erdoğan.
Europe should cut ties with that country instead of bowing for every demand they make.
That's impossible because Erdoğan blackmails them. He has a quite useful blackmailing tool, few millions of domesticated migrants, who are ready to be injected into the EU.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
Answer is very simple, they're not Erdoğan.
Europe should cut ties with that country instead of bowing for every demand they make.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
Speaking about turkish preservative... Cough-cough, sorry, I mean the president, there are some news from Netherlands:

https://www.rt.com/news/340598-netherlands-turkey-insulting-erdogan/

I'd say that turkish preservative, cough-cough, I mean the president, has lost his limits in reference to place and time.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Just a few days ago, a rainbow ruling coalition was formed in the state of Sahcsen-Anhalt by all the mainstream parties, to keep the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party out of power (the AfD is having 25 out of 87 seats). At least in the former Eastern Germnay, the political situation is changing. It is AfD vs Mainstream (pro-Merkel) parties.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
Basically, the point about civil law is that a government set up that way is virtually a dictator over the people of the nation. There isn't really any democracy. Government rules by giving itself best benefit by allowing the people democratic-like freedom.
Legal systems have almost nothing to do whatsoever with whether any given country is a democracy or not.
In simple analysis, this is correct. However, in a democracy, if the elected governing officials don't make the legal system match what the majority wants, they lose their job. Sometimes before their term is up. So, the legal system depends on the democracy.


It is definitely true that without rule of law, democracy is impossible, but that's an underlying legal principle, not a legal system.
Civil law as a legal system has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not a government "sets up" a civil code which will define whether or not the jurisdiction, executive and legislative can be considered compatible with a democracy.
The American legal system is common law, making the laws unimportant, although the ignorance of the people makes the people think the laws are important. Jury nullification can change any and all laws in America any time.

In a democracy - which we don't have in America - if the people vote in a guy who promises jury nullification regarding the laws, and then sets it up as he promised, the laws change faster than ever. Why? Because they don't mean anything with jury nullification around. The jury is the law.


Please, before stating such nonsense as you did, rtfm, i.e. go to a library, get the books in the "law 101" section and read!

Please, before you start getting all legalistic and picky about words and phrases, look at the theme.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon






[...]
Mrs Merkel’s main coalition partner, the Social Democrats (SPD), have broken with convention and made it clear they oppose her decision to allow the prosecution.

Two of the party’s most senior ministers, Mr Maas and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the foreign minister, held their own press conference to disown the decision within hours of its announcement.

“The special crime of insulting a foreign head of state is out-of-date,” Mr Maas said at the time. “The idea of lese-majeste no longer has a place in our criminal law.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/merkel-faces-rebellion-over-prosecution-of-comedian-accused-of-i/


legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon
Basically, the point about civil law is that a government set up that way is virtually a dictator over the people of the nation. There isn't really any democracy. Government rules by giving itself best benefit by allowing the people democratic-like freedom.
Legal systems have almost nothing to do whatsoever with whether any given country is a democracy or not.
It is definitely true that without rule of law, democracy is impossible, but that's an underlying legal principle, not a legal system.
Civil law as a legal system has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not a government "sets up" a civil code which will define whether or not the jurisdiction, executive and legislative can be considered compatible with a democracy.

Please, before stating such nonsense as you did, rtfm, i.e. go to a library, get the books in the "law 101" section and read!




qwk
donator
Activity: 3542
Merit: 3413
Shitcoin Minimalist
The answer is very simple. Germany has become the vassal state of Turkey
A million Turkish live in Germany, and the Turkish dictator keeps a large part of them under his control. They have to serve the Turkish army for example.
First of all, more than a million Turkish live in Germany, somewhere on the order of 1.5 Million.
Second, not all of them have to serve the Turkish army, even though I'm unsure how many would be legally required to do so.
Third, somewhere on the order of another 1.5 Million Germans live in Germany which have Turkish ancestors.

Fourth, just to put that into perspective, somewhere on the order of 1.5 Million people with Polish ancestry live in Germany, as well as half a million Italians*, half a million Romanians*, some couple hundred thousand Russians*, Croatians*, Greek*, Bulgarians*, Serbs*, Syrians*, French*, Spanish* etc., etc.. You name it, we have it.
Even our Secretary of the Interior has obvious French ancestry.

Germany is a multi-ethnic country, just like most in Europe and there's nothing special about some of the inhabitants being legally required by their respective "home countries" to do their civil duties in exchange for e.g. voting rights there.


* always + offspring
qwk
donator
Activity: 3542
Merit: 3413
Shitcoin Minimalist
Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.
Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
Nothing makes Erdogan any different, because there is no law which specifically makes him special.
It's the joke which is different, because it crossed (and deliberately so) a certain line that's been defined by jurisdiction long before.
That line is defined by the specific word "Schmähkritik", which is not so much a law but the definition of the applicability of a specific law which has been used in the German Federal Constitutional Court (being the highest court in Germany) for a while (dating at least as far back as the 1980s).

Bottom line, and I have to repeat myself here: the comedian in question deliberately crossed the line to provoke the exact reaction that we're seeing now. He will have to live with the consequences, which will not be severe, but in fact will make him a lot of money.

The humor is probably lost on everyone who is not comfortable with the specific laws in question, which most likely even includes the major part of the German population.
qwk
donator
Activity: 3542
Merit: 3413
Shitcoin Minimalist
Basically, the point about civil law is that a government set up that way is virtually a dictator over the people of the nation. There isn't really any democracy. Government rules by giving itself best benefit by allowing the people democratic-like freedom.
Legal systems have almost nothing to do whatsoever with whether any given country is a democracy or not.
It is definitely true that without rule of law, democracy is impossible, but that's an underlying legal principle, not a legal system.
Civil law as a legal system has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not a government "sets up" a civil code which will define whether or not the jurisdiction, executive and legislative can be considered compatible with a democracy.

Please, before stating such nonsense as you did, rtfm, i.e. go to a library, get the books in the "law 101" section and read!
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
Answer is very simple, they're not Erdoğan.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?

Limit is at ...........

Reached the limit.       Grin
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
I have seen this in local news and the comedian deserve it, a joke has a limit and comedians should not make jokes about presidents like this comedian did, Erdogan does not tolerate even in his country so lets see what will happen with this comedian in germany.

There is something called as humor.Take it as a joke.The amount of jokes American president has to take and matter of fact he can't do anything about it shows what actual Democracy is.Freedom of SPEECH!

Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon
The answer is very simple. Germany has become the vassal state of Turkey
A million Turkish live in Germany, and the Turkish dictator keeps a large part of them under his control. They have to serve the Turkish army for example.


A Turkish army has been infiltrated in Germany? Ready for their marching order?

Yeah... The comedian has to go to jail then.

Thank you Merkel. German humor for the win!

 Cheesy

legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
The answer is very simple. Germany has become the vassal state of Turkey
A million Turkish live in Germany, and the Turkish dictator keeps a large part of them under his control. They have to serve the Turkish army for example.

You are under-estimating the number of Turks in Germany. According to the official stats, the real number is close to 4 million, out of which 1,506,113 holds the Turkish citizenship. In 1998, 2.11 million German residents had Turkish citizenship, but the numbers have fallen as many have opted for the German citizenship. And obviously, if you are a Turkish citizen, then you have to serve in the Turkish army.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
The answer is very simple. Germany has become the vassal state of Turkey
A million Turkish live in Germany, and the Turkish dictator keeps a large part of them under his control. They have to serve the Turkish army for example.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
I have seen this in local news and the comedian deserve it, a joke has a limit and comedians should not make jokes about presidents like this comedian did, Erdogan does not tolerate even in his country so lets see what will happen with this comedian in germany.

That was supposed to be the difference between Turkey and Germany. Germany claims to be a democracy with the freedom of speech granted to all the residents. On the other hand, Turkey is an Islamic dictatorship where the freedom of speech does not exist. If the German authorities behaves the same way as those in Turkey, then how can they claim to be any different from the Turks?

On the Wikipedia common law page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law, there is a map of the world legal systems. This is an excellent map. It shows that Germany is not exactly the democracy that people think... neither is the United States.

Germany is a civil law country. A great and short description of civil law, along with a comparison to common law (United States), can be found at Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_%28legal_system%29 where it says:
Quote
Civil law, civilian law or Roman law is a legal system originating in Europe, intellectualized within the framework of late Roman law, and whose most prevalent feature is that its core principles are codified into a referable system which serves as the primary source of law. This can be contrasted with common law systems whose intellectual framework comes from judge-made decisional law which gives precedential authority to prior court decisions on the principle that it is unfair to treat similar facts differently on different occasions (doctrine of judicial precedent, or stare decisis).

Basically, the point about civil law is that a government set up that way is virtually a dictator over the people of the nation. There isn't really any democracy. Government rules by giving itself best benefit by allowing the people democratic-like freedom. Without freedom, people don't benefit the ruling class.

Since the idea of democracy is majority rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy), the United States isn't really a democracy, either. Why not? Because supreme law is vested in the court system in the States. No matter what law is democratically set up in the States, a jury can judge the law to be of no effect in a case. Such is called jury nullification, and the jurors are the judges in the common law court system of the United States. Such a thing is not available to the people of Germany.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
I have seen this in local news and the comedian deserve it, a joke has a limit and comedians should not make jokes about presidents like this comedian did, Erdogan does not tolerate even in his country so lets see what will happen with this comedian in germany.

That was supposed to be the difference between Turkey and Germany. Germany claims to be a democracy with the freedom of speech granted to all the residents. On the other hand, Turkey is an Islamic dictatorship where the freedom of speech does not exist. If the German authorities behaves the same way as those in Turkey, then how can they claim to be any different from the Turks?
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