Topic: A Poker Odds Calculator is a Perfect Tool for Poker? - page 2. (Read 539 times)

even if you don't know the opponent's hand, you can still assign them a range of possible hands based on their table play, or just a generic range if you have no reads.

so, let's say you're facing a very active/aggressive raiser to your left who 3-bets ~ 2x per orbit, likes to barrel postflop, and has shown down some bluffs. you are dealt KQs and it folds around to you. you raise, he 3-bets. what is a range we can put him on? based on our limited history and assuming a full ring game, he is 3-betting preflop 22.2% of the time. assigning a generic range based on the top 22.2% of starting hands we have:


let's see how our equity holds up. preflop:



now, let's imagine a hypothetical flop. for simplicity's sake, we will avoid flush possibilities:



we're in good shape against villain's range, but he continuation bets on the flop and calls a raise. we see a turn card:



villain fires a 2nd barrel. what's our play?

unfortunately with this type of LAG player, we can't narrow his range all that much. this is why LAG players are tough to beat---they make you gamble with higher variance in order to defend your equity. we know he could have hit a set or a straight, or turned a stronger pair. after all, he did call the raise on the flop. we also he know he could have a weaker pair, he could be semi-bluffing a gutshot straight draw, etc

anyway, this is just to highlight a spot where i think people give the villain too much credit. yes, our equity dropped on the turn, but it's really important to consider villain's entire range rather than automatically assuming he made a better hand by the turn. LAG players are often skilled at reading players, especially OOP, so the likelihood that he called the flop raise based on pot odds and is bluffing the turn---knowing he can likely scare us off the hand---is still pretty decent.

This would be really helpful for the beginner's or the players who are trying to play the game more efficiently because this can help them win a game, But for the experienced players, I think they don't need this kind of tool because there is a possibility this tool can distract them or they could be dependent in this tool. As per the players who desperately want to win a game, Having this should be an advantage to them and can make their winning chance higher if his table mates are at his caliber level.

Of course for beginners out there who want to try this please remember that this is a tool to help them improve their skills and not by just relying in the tool all the time. This tool can be good training for self-improvement in terms of poker.

Well, I am in the realm of poker games and for years playing of this kind of game I did not consider that this calculator will help you while you are in actual sitting in your table or even in online poker. Doing the math will kill your time and perhaps you will interrupt from those tools. However, there are certain calculators if you want to find them I will drop link below.

---

Indeed, for the beginners that is right. If you want to learn poker this will be the best thing for you, but as they said above, --this will not give exact results because of this tool cant guess what an in your opponent has. Perhaps a learning calculator for new players of poker but not in actual play.

---

Links of calculators! [1] ^{https://www.cardschat.com/poker-odds-calculator.php} [2] ^{https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tools/odds-calculator/texas-holdem}

Calculators like this have been around for a long time, they are good for the newbies since they can help you see more clearly the chances you can hit the hand you are looking for but once you have some experience in the game you will know how to do that in seconds, the real challenge of poker strives on being able to guess why your opponent is betting the way he does and if he has something better than what you have, this is very difficult to do when playing online but when playing live you can try to see any change on his behaviour and whether this change is favourable for you or not and then decide what to do with that information.

Indeed. Using this kind of tool will hurt your performance in gambling, and the essence of enjoyment of playing poker will be gone because when you play poker, you will only depend on using the odds calculator. I also think this kind of tool is not perfect for helping you to win because it will only give you chances or the probability if you will win or lose that it will not show you the exact outcome of the cards that will show in the hands of the dealer.

I think this is the same calculator that they are using at poker games streamed on television.
Right?
You can see percentage of winning of one player just as the camera saw his cards.
But it changes. Even a 2 and 3 of diamonds could get a high chance of winning once the flop happened.
Pair of Aces can lose any time once every card is facing up.
That is why I want to finish it at the start when I have that pair. 

I don't think it's a good tool for me, anything could happen.

In my experience, relying on such a calculator can hurt your performance. When using a program like this, I tended to focus too much on odds instead of just playing the game and focus on each player way of playing...
They can be great for beginners, but one should drop them as soon as possible and learn poker theory and strategies.

That is exactly what I meant. The probability calculator gives some numbers, taking into account the fact that he “knows” the opponent’s hand or gives these numbers with respect to all possible combinations. But the game situation is completely different from these calculations.

If you were an old player, chances are you're already playing around your mind the chances of the other side actually exceeding your hand. Even if the chances aren't 100% accurate, it should be somewhere close tbh, as long as you can take into account the cards in the table and your cards, it should be quite plausible. Still, this is the most basic since other skills that ignore the win/loss of the standoff such as bluffing can also be applied. Ofc, if you were to get the strongest hand, there'd be no way for a bluff to work lmao.
Well, the AA pair is a strong pair to start with but it doesn't necessarily guarantee a 100% chance of winning by the time river comes out. Tbf, the hand you have at the start just increases your chance of winning, not making sure you win. This honestly gives you more room to maneuver with imo unlike hands with numerical pairings that aren't near each other, 2 and 9, for example.

OP: I don't know! if to say the precise or perfect tool for the Poker, but if for the one that begins to play.

Many who are dedicated to playing ignore potodds, but at the beginning, those who want to be successful in the long term of poker have to play with potodds, pot odds are the brake, not to play with the heart.

You don't need a calculator, it's really a simple division that relates your bet to the chance of winning what is in the pot, versus the probability of your hand.

First you must learn what is your probability (odds) of winning a hand and with that you can calculate them doods.

In poker pot odds are constantly repeated, but opponents and situations are what change.

In conclusion, you need to learn how to calculate PotOdds in importance, that concept is what is really important, but first learn how to calculate Odds.

You can have AA the guy next to you AK and I'm holding 93 (my two cards are the same suit).

AA goes all in, the flop is QJ7 (the J7 are the same suit as my 93 so I call)

AK goes all in on the turn with a ten (AK now has all four suits)

on the river I get a suited card 5 so out of the three of us I win with a flush beating the unsuited straight and the lonely pair of AA's (my highest card is the Jack).

Waiting to see what cards come out goes a long way to determining whether or not to go all in no matter how attractive the cards might look.

---

---

From my point of view, AK could have just as easily had 98 making a queen high unsuited straight, but I still know that my suited flush beats his unsuited straight.

Good tools and probably will help the gamblers to have higher chances of winning. I just realize about this calculator for poker.
However, can it be said as perfect tool for poker? I don't think that when going to play poker, someone really needs to use certain tools to win.
Imagine that all of the players in fact use the calculator at the same table and we don't know each other. What will happen? They also have the similar chance to win. It means that of course, the strategies and also how the game works will also really determine how the player will win or lose.

it's more complicated than that. in holdem, when it comes to starting hands, hand strength is not static. it changes relative to your opponent's holdings.

statistically, AA is the best possible starting hand. KK is the 2nd best possible starting hand. however, when it comes to AA vs KK, the KK player would be better off holding something like a low-mid suited connector like 65s, which would give him a 4.5% better chance of winning at showdown.





this represents the value of "live cards" where your opponent doesn't have you dominated pair over pair or out-kicked.

I thought about this: let's say you have AA in your arms. You go allin. And according to the odds calculator, your odds are ~ 90% (I didn’t check, I just guess as this information is not important for further discussion). But your real chances are less because if someone answers you, he (presumably) will have a stronger hand than the "average" with respect to which the chances are calculated.
I'm right?

@DoublerHunter, if you just start playing, you may find it useful.

But after playing a few thousand hands, you will know the odds without even think of. And in most cases, you need to know approximates. E.g. AK vs AQ ~75%/25% without bothering for perfection. Those are called basic preflop odds. 

If you really want to progress, check some advanced stuff like GTO Poker Strategy. Here is a brief intro: https://www.pokerstarsschool.com/strategies/an-introduction-to-gto-poker-strategy/1711/

it definitely applies to poker. what that odds calculator is showing is the actual probability of winning at showdown---in other words, it assumes neither player folds and the hand plays through to the river.

when this hand is run thousands and thousands of times, it roughly boils down to a 60/40 flip every single time:



if you are consistently playing 60/40 favorites in a cash game setting, then you will profit over the long run.


yes, we also need to incorporate things like fold equity and pot odds and implied odds to get a better understanding of the complete set of probabilities at play.

but those types of odds are "next level" thinking. the most basic level to master first is showdown odds.


or the probability one of your opponents is bluffing, chasing a weak draw, or has a weaker made hand. this brings us to another "next level" concept---playing against ranges of hands rather than one specific hand.

This is a great tool, but for professional online players this is a tiny fraction of the tools that are required. The most important thing is information about opponents - statistics of their behavior in different situations. Such statistics are collected by third-party programs and access to their database costs money (as far as I know in the form of a paid subscription).

Odds are one thing, but poker is much more. In poker, you don't play against odds, you play against other people, who can be very unpredictable! More than odds you need to respect blinds and how other people play specific hands, with specific cards... and man believe me if you wish to survive in long run you need to go against the odds, and you will have to do that many times!
I wrote about it here, in poker in 90% (more or less) you don't have a showdown! After playing many hands you realize it's not what cards you have, it's about how will you play and what you show with your chips!

This tool, and any tool like such, will only benefit its users long term.

If you know you have the advantage in odds and manage your raises accordingly, long term you're bound to win more. But most online competitive platforms take measures to prevent external assistance for players. And the format for online games is paced in such a way that it's not very easy to input all the data. If you're found too, then you might be banned. So these bots might be good to use if someone uses a bot that can also take in all the data automatically from competitive tables and run it long term. Not sure which platforms would allow it. But otherwise it's just an interesting experiment.

I'm afraid it may not be applicable to poker. As a matter of fact, I don't even think this kind of odds calculator is reflecting your hand's real winning probability.

If this tool would include in its winning probability calculation the cards of your opponents, the number of times your opponent is raising his/her bet, the amount raised, whether or not he/she is going all in, and so on, then it would be more or less sophisticated and kind of reliable. But if what it only does is measure your own hand's strength, I don't think you can rely on it.

After all, back to the OP's image, the probability that one of your opponents is having a royal flush is there; the probability that one of your opponents is having a straight flush is there; the probability that one of your opponents is having a four-of-a-kind is also there. And what you have is only Full house.