Topic: A Public Plea for Civility - page 2. (Read 4907 times)

Someone once told me if you cry about it, it will all go away. There is lots of crying on this board but nothing goes away.... so stock crying about everything.

I agree. There are some variables that complicate this (internet, anonymity, etc), but ironically it's not a problem unless you're trying to promote anonymity (which I disagree with, just look at the sockpuppetry here)

If someone comes up to you in the street and makes you an offer that sounds to good to be true, you might not even politely decline (although it would be the mature thing to do) you certainly don't scream "SCAMMM, PONNNZIIIIIII" at the top of your lungs, and even bother to come back to him and insult him, like it happens on the forums.

I. Introduction

Over the past few months, I've observed a general trend on this forum that I think is rather disturbing. We have always disagreed and debated on a vast variety of subjects, but more and more often of late those debates seem to turn into or in some cases start as nothing but 'flame wars', to use the colloquial term. This forum, once a reasonable facsimile of a haven for intellectual and civil discussion, has mutated into a wasteland of mud-slinging, baseless accusations, fear-mongering, utterly nonsensical FUD, mob mentalities, and worst of all, xenophobia. This is most pronounced in the Marketplace and associated sub-forums, but seems to be permeating throughout the extent of these boards.

II. Why The Marketplace Matters

Some of you probably avoid the Marketplace altogether, and wonder if it really matters. Regardless of where you prefer to spend your time, the fact remains that Bitcoin is a currency. Trade is necessary for both a healthy economy and, perhaps more importantly, recruitment of new users.

III. Mud-slinging

We all disagree with each other. If we didn't, we'd have nothing to talk about. But disagreement does not have to translate into insults.
Ad hominem reasoning not only fails to provide any result of worth for either involved party; it poisons the general topic of discussion and makes the thread useless for any future or current readers. One simple insult can create multiple threads of incoherent flaming.

IV. Baseless Accusations

These threads tend to sound like tabloid articles. Inciting headlines, extravagant claims, and no logical evidence whatsoever to back them up. If you have a serious accusation and want results, please make a factual claim and back it up (Example). Factual and civil trade disagreement threads have a much higher rate of resolution. Remember, whether the counterparty is a scammer or not, they are a human being, and a successful dispute resolution is much more likely if you treat them like one.

V. Fear-mongering

This sometimes goes hand-in-hand with the above, but sometimes not insomuch an accusation as chaos-inciting content, often simply links to other threads with an eye-catching title attached. First of all, we do not need multiple different threads to discuss the same thing. Second, if you're going to make extravagant claims, at least take the time to make them yourself.

VI. Utterly Nonsensical FUD

Also known as spam. I receive quite enough of this in my email inbox. If you don't have anything useful or intelligent to post, don't post. It's as simple as that.

VII. Mob Mentalities

Also known as the 'exponential thread growth problem'. Don't take what other people say at face value, and don't simply repeat other's sentiments. All of you have something unique to contribute to discussions. Contribute it!

VIII. Xenophobia

This one concerns me the most, as I think it could have far-reaching implications. Most people who read about Bitcoin and come here have read almost ubiquitously negative press discussing drugs, Ponzi schemes, and ever-imminent collapse. They decided to take a chance and investigate for themselves. What do they find? A community which refuses to do business with anyone relatively new. A community filled with animosity. Half the forums polluted with allegations of Ponzi schemes. In other words, they find exactly what the media told them to expect. Their conclusion? The media is right. Do we really want to embody what the media portrays us as?

IX. Addendum: BS&T

First of all, I will admit that I am most certainly not an unbiased observer. I did my research and invested into BS&T. I have no factual conclusion as to whether it is a Ponzi or not, nor do I think I have enough expertise to surmise a claim. But, regardless of whether BS&T is a ponzi, an innocent company investing in third-world medical care, or an elaborate hoax conceived by Bernie Madoff's hitherto unknown twin, endlessly fretting and arguing about it will accomplish nothing whatsoever.

Those of you with convinced BS&T is a Ponzi scheme, I'm glad you're being cautious with investment. Please refrain from starting hundreds of separate threads stating nothing new whatsoever. Perhaps it is a scam, perhaps not. I know some of you have far superior wisdom which you are ever eager to share, but us mere mortals are still capable of intelligent analysis and decision-making. If BS&T truly is a Ponzi, somehow I suspect we will notice.

X. Conclusion

I'm just some nameless forum member writing another rant, albeit perhaps not on one of the usual subjects. All I ask is that you read and think upon it. Perhaps this won't make any difference. But it certainly wouldn't have if I didn't write it.

Best regards,
BinaryMage

Thank you for making this post, I've considered making one like this myself, but I knew I could not describe is sufficiently eloquent.

What bothers me most is the fact that people really do act like the stereotypical idiot on the internet, when it's really easy not to. Just look at the people not doing it, in fact just act like you're IRL, it's not that hard. If someone comes up to you in the street and makes you an offer that sounds to good to be true, you might not even politely decline (although it would be the mature thing to do) you certainly don't scream "SCAMMM, PONNNZIIIIIII" at the top of your lungs, and even bother to come back to him and insult him, like it happens on the forums.

What I would basically suggest is that people should act more like a real world adult ... that shouldn't be too much to ask.

While I totally agree BinaryMage, I firmly believe that for things to change, the mods need to start working harder, and actually moderating this place.   A stricter stance on everything you listed in the OP would greatly help keep this place more civil.   That, along with actually merging multiple threads rather than having 12 on the same subject would go a long way to making this a usable forum again.

Right now it's a pretty horrible place to be, which is NOT a good thing when we're talking the primary site for all things bitcoin.  This is where new people to Bitcoin will arrive after 1 google search, and right now I very much doubt they'd stick around.

Asking for civility on the open Internet is like asking a dog not to drag its ass on the carpet; it is an exercise in futility.

If you think its bad now you should have seen it before the newbie section was introduced and the SA troll invasion happened.

I have to agree about the BS&T thing, and it happens on other topics too. There will be multiple threads about the same topic. People, please just reply in the relevant topic, starting a new one just clutters up the forum and makes it harder to find relevant information.

You can plea all you want, but I don't think it'll change things.  This is about as free and unrestricted of a forum as you'll find, which is why it is what it is - a cesspool.  A while back, I attempted to start up a competitor forum that would actually ban people if they weren't sufficiently respectful, among other rules, but was unable to draw a sustainable crowd.

So, I await the next true rival to the forum, that I may move on to someplace less... awful than this.