A Resource Based Economy - page 25. | Bitcointalksearch.org

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: cbeast on July 27, 2015, 07:04:07 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 23, 2015, 08:22:57 AM

A free market is a fantasy because individuals are self serving assholes that need to be controlled.

When you say "controlled" you mean civilized. Laws are agreements to keep that civilization together. Personal motivations are irrelevant. Humans are social and therefore a collective by definition. You aren't born Hindu in a Muslim family and you aren't born Communist in a Capitalist family. Systems have been created by people to effect civilizations, but there is little significant difference between any of them. People are people wherever you go. They are all capable of good and evil, smart and dumb things. It doesn't matter what system is used as long as it is capable of supporting the most successful civilization. This is where RBE projects like TVP and TZM and many others study civilizations to determine which methods work best in the long run. They use science to back up their data points. You can knock it, but you also then have to refute the science.

If people complied with the law it would be civilized but they don't. That's the reason we need massive amounts of law enforcement officers and military.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: ngupowered on July 27, 2015, 02:51:12 AM

Quote from: Rassah on July 23, 2015, 02:45:34 PM

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

What's so unnatural about people "taking" out competitors, to increase trade/profits - using all sorts of devious & cunning schemes, also termed a free market?
What's so unnatural about me killing you and taking "your property"?

You think being stolen from by your devious competitors, or being murdered and having your property taken, is voluntary? Huh

qiwoman2

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1023

Oikos.cash | Decentralized Finance on Tron

I believe we are not yet civilized enough to use a purely resource--based economy but we could use it on a micro economic scale to some extent..Use cooperatives and barter on a local level and use digital currencies for any products or services that are needed but limiting imports and stuff to a minimum in order to produce more and be more self sustaining. Also using small towns and villages as a base would work better than big cities. We would need to rapidly change our infrastructure to accommodate the idea of a resource based economy as is outlined in the Venus Project.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 23, 2015, 08:22:57 AM

A free market is a fantasy because individuals are self serving assholes that need to be controlled.

When you say "controlled" you mean civilized. Laws are agreements to keep that civilization together. Personal motivations are irrelevant. Humans are social and therefore a collective by definition. You aren't born Hindu in a Muslim family and you aren't born Communist in a Capitalist family. Systems have been created by people to effect civilizations, but there is little significant difference between any of them. People are people wherever you go. They are all capable of good and evil, smart and dumb things. It doesn't matter what system is used as long as it is capable of supporting the most successful civilization. This is where RBE projects like TVP and TZM and many others study civilizations to determine which methods work best in the long run. They use science to back up their data points. You can knock it, but you also then have to refute the science.

ngupowered

member

Activity: 92

Merit: 10

Quote from: Rassah on July 23, 2015, 02:45:34 PM

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

What's so unnatural about people "taking" out competitors, to increase trade/profits - using all sorts of devious & cunning schemes, also termed a free market?
What's so unnatural about me killing you and taking "your property"?

You're asking all the wrong questions, my friend.

LightRider

legendary

Activity: 1500

Merit: 1022

I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.

Quote from: Rassah on July 23, 2015, 02:45:34 PM

Quote from: LightRider on July 22, 2015, 10:58:03 PM

Quote from: Rassah on July 21, 2015, 09:53:14 PM

https://mises.org/library/evolutionary-psychology-and-antimarket-bias

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws.

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

It's not voluntary.

neurotypical

hero member

Activity: 672

Merit: 503

Quote from: Rassah on July 23, 2015, 02:45:34 PM

Quote from: LightRider on July 22, 2015, 10:58:03 PM

Quote from: Rassah on July 21, 2015, 09:53:14 PM

https://mises.org/library/evolutionary-psychology-and-antimarket-bias

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws.

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

I think he may mean that since free will is probably not true, free market is by definition a non sequetur, a fallacy. There's no freedom really. Everyone is limited by genetics and environment.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: LightRider on July 22, 2015, 10:58:03 PM

Quote from: Rassah on July 21, 2015, 09:53:14 PM

https://mises.org/library/evolutionary-psychology-and-antimarket-bias

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws.

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

AtheistAKASaneBrain

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: MadAlpha on July 23, 2015, 04:10:25 AM

Quote from: LightRider on July 22, 2015, 10:58:03 PM

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws. To pretend otherwise, as we have been doing for centuries, has proven disastrous. The kind of "education" advocated is no education at all, merely the instillation of values detrimental to humanity and the environment. The free for all market mentality only benefits the few psychopaths and control freaks who seek dominance over all else. The system is designed to perpetuate the values of the few at the expense of the lives of the many. Attributing anything to "human nature" is a cop out, as there is no significant human nature to speak of. We must all learn the complex social and other behaviors that will allow us to negotiate our environment. But the fact that for a brief time, we had to be subjugated to the whims of governments and capitalists does not justify continuing this destructive system. It is not natural to destroy our planet so that a few people can make some money. To honestly believe this is a mental illness.

You sound very brainwashed into your communist/anarchist mindset.

He is mostly right on his analysis tho, the problem is communism doesn't really work when applied and it all tends to end up where we are at now. Our only hope is that automation delivers goods for most people without needing to work exploitative jobs.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: LightRider on July 22, 2015, 10:58:03 PM

Quote from: Rassah on July 21, 2015, 09:53:14 PM

https://mises.org/library/evolutionary-psychology-and-antimarket-bias

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws. To pretend otherwise, as we have been doing for centuries, has proven disastrous. The kind of "education" advocated is no education at all, merely the instillation of values detrimental to humanity and the environment. The free for all market mentality only benefits the few psychopaths and control freaks who seek dominance over all else. The system is designed to perpetuate the values of the few at the expense of the lives of the many. Attributing anything to "human nature" is a cop out, as there is no significant human nature to speak of. We must all learn the complex social and other behaviors that will allow us to negotiate our environment. But the fact that for a brief time, we had to be subjugated to the whims of governments and capitalists does not justify continuing this destructive system. It is not natural to destroy our planet so that a few people can make some money. To honestly believe this is a mental illness.

You do realize that just sounds like a bunch of free love hippie bullshit, right? I know you're spouting the NLRBE party line but you can't be serious. The longer I live the more I realize that people are mostly just a loose collection of self serving assholes. People are haters and ruthless. The only reason about 90% join any group or movement is to fulfill their own personal needs. I find it highly unlikely that the vast bulk of the human animals out there, in the wild, will ever want to learn the "complex social behaviors" necessary to truly care about the environment or each other. Capitalism is the perfect example of greedy self serving assholes having the power and powerless self serving assholes supporting the system because they think they can rise to power someday. The "free market" is nothing but unrestricted trade without price fixing or government interference. That's never existed at any point in history and cannot exist anywhere in the world. A free market is a fantasy because individuals are self serving assholes that need to be controlled.

herzmeister

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1007

Both sides (anarcho-capitalism and anarcho-communism) have flaws in their line of arguing.

It's true what Marxists argue that private property rights can, at the end of the day, only be ensured by force, i.e. police and military. At the end of the day, the nation state (which libertarians claim to despise) can be seen as the organization that provides these services. Don't like your state? Go somewhere else. We have almost 200 nation states. Plenty of choice. Free market at work! Yay!

Anarcho-communism on the other hand expects all people to adopt a set of certain values like solidarity and equality. The New Man. But there is no guarantee for this to occur. Discourse in left ideologies are often about the revolutionary strategies of how to achieve this goal.

If you think long enough, you come to the conclusion that we already have "anarchy" today, and the interplay of forces would always arrive at the structures of nation states, which have to both cooperate (trade) and compete, with slightly varying sets of societal norms and rules.

MadAlpha

member

Activity: 100

Merit: 10

Quote from: LightRider on July 22, 2015, 10:58:03 PM

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws. To pretend otherwise, as we have been doing for centuries, has proven disastrous. The kind of "education" advocated is no education at all, merely the instillation of values detrimental to humanity and the environment. The free for all market mentality only benefits the few psychopaths and control freaks who seek dominance over all else. The system is designed to perpetuate the values of the few at the expense of the lives of the many. Attributing anything to "human nature" is a cop out, as there is no significant human nature to speak of. We must all learn the complex social and other behaviors that will allow us to negotiate our environment. But the fact that for a brief time, we had to be subjugated to the whims of governments and capitalists does not justify continuing this destructive system. It is not natural to destroy our planet so that a few people can make some money. To honestly believe this is a mental illness.

You sound very brainwashed into your communist/anarchist mindset.

LightRider

legendary

Activity: 1500

Merit: 1022

I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.

Quote from: Rassah on July 21, 2015, 09:53:14 PM

https://mises.org/library/evolutionary-psychology-and-antimarket-bias

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws. To pretend otherwise, as we have been doing for centuries, has proven disastrous. The kind of "education" advocated is no education at all, merely the instillation of values detrimental to humanity and the environment. The free for all market mentality only benefits the few psychopaths and control freaks who seek dominance over all else. The system is designed to perpetuate the values of the few at the expense of the lives of the many. Attributing anything to "human nature" is a cop out, as there is no significant human nature to speak of. We must all learn the complex social and other behaviors that will allow us to negotiate our environment. But the fact that for a brief time, we had to be subjugated to the whims of governments and capitalists does not justify continuing this destructive system. It is not natural to destroy our planet so that a few people can make some money. To honestly believe this is a mental illness.

Erdogan

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Rassah on July 21, 2015, 09:53:14 PM

https://mises.org/library/evolutionary-psychology-and-antimarket-bias

Excellent article. It explains a lot, including why all market supporters at some point were anti market Cry

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

https://mises.org/library/evolutionary-psychology-and-antimarket-bias

LightRider

legendary

Activity: 1500

Merit: 1022

I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUmdKcYwFLk

BitcoinFreak12

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Damn i`m getting really tired about these Keynesianist bandits, then fuck up the whole worlds, and they also profit from it.

I`m really tired of it, we really need a huge change, because the global debt is growing, and the day of wreckoning is coming closer and closer.

This Keynesian Ponzi Scheme wont end well, when all the printed money gets sucked in like a vacuum from the World GDP, and will fuck up all wealth that common people had and they will lose everything.

They are evil bandits and madmans, and really the scum of the planet, we really need to get rid of them once and for all.

I hope John Keynes burns in hell for this (although i`m an atheist) Grin

joe1991

newbie

Activity: 1

Merit: 0

I think,if we tried our best to do what we should do,then it is the resource of based economyFiber optic adapter

BitMos

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 123

"PLEASE SCULPT YOUR SHIT BEFORE THROWING. Thank U"

For a long time, I was thinking that an RBE, precisely water (for it's capacity to integrate all human activates, from energy +/- - to pee pee - poo poo, and necessity in life) was great.

However I don't think that fiat makes people bad, or hunger, thrust or lack of what ever. And this simple realization means, that fundamentally it's not on what you base your economy, but who is part of your economy. which leads back to the old meaning of economy, aka domestic intendance. In short you don't need accounting-laws-regulations with the Children of God, however with the human beings... what ever mean you will develop they will hack... that's the only thing they will ever have.

So yes the problem isn't the "accounting gimmick" but the people, particularly the bad ones, aka those that fist the free will of another human being by what ever means at their disposal for their own benefit. And that's where it gets dirty... the rest is technocratic useless energy waste.

I hope it wasn't too OT for you. But enjoy the road is fun.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Rassah on December 28, 2014, 12:46:22 PM

Quote from: cbeast on December 28, 2014, 03:40:12 AM

Quote from: Rassah on December 28, 2014, 03:17:34 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 08:35:02 PM

Quote from: Muuurrrrica! on December 27, 2014, 07:43:36 PM

tl, dr

recource based economy is really just communism

Communism uses money like rubles, pesos, and yuan. RBE doesn't.

...
In contrast, rubles were essentially coupons or points that could be exchanged for other things based on a fixed exchange rate. Job wages were not earned based on demand, as they would be with money, but rewarded in ruble "points" based on their perceived importance, and the number of ruble "points" spent on an apple would be set (by central planners) based on their need for subsistence, and somewhat on the complexity of its production. In essense, a ruble was no different than a card you could get for 8 free coffees, where each time you visit, one of the 8 coffee squares gets punched out with a hole punch.

So, yeah, RBE is like communism, where all resources are planned out, and allocated using the point system.

In theory I suppose. Rubles turn into money on the black market.

That's probably more a foreshadowing of RBE than anything. If resources are efficiently allocated, and everything one needs to survive is provided, people will still use something as money on the black market to try to get a little bit more.

Yeah that will probably be for things like clean, water and food. Money is already lowering our lifespan.

Topic: A Resource Based Economy - page 25. (Read 288384 times)