Topic: A Resource Based Economy - page 26. (Read 288373 times)

That's probably more a foreshadowing of RBE than anything. If resources are efficiently allocated, and everything one needs to survive is provided, people will still use something as money on the black market to try to get a little bit more.

In theory I suppose. Rubles turn into money on the black market.

It's a bit ironic that although TZM rejects the monetary system and the market economy entirely, almost none of its followers do.




Actually no, the ruble was not a money, per se. Money is basically like any other commodity, traded on the exchange, and having its value established by the same supply vs demand aspects like everything else. Cost of labor (wages) and price of goods all change constantly in relation to money, and depend of the supply of each compared to the demand of each (how much money is in circulation vs how much that money is sought by others, compared to how many apples are in season right now vs how many people want apples, determines how much money will be exchanged for apples, aka their price).

In contrast, rubles were essentially coupons or points that could be exchanged for other things based on a fixed exchange rate. Job wages were not earned based on demand, as they would be with money, but rewarded in ruble "points" based on their perceived importance, and the number of ruble "points" spent on an apple would be set (by central planners) based on their need for subsistence, and somewhat on the complexity of its production. In essense, a ruble was no different than a card you could get for 8 free coffees, where each time you visit, one of the 8 coffee squares gets punched out with a hole punch.

So, yeah, RBE is like communism, where all resources are planned out, and allocated using the point system.

Information is not a limited resource (thus people don't consider intellectual property actual "property"). So there is no need to allocate it. An individual can come and take it, and it won't diminish the supply of the original. So it's not a good comparison to actual physical resources.


You did actually say that capitalism is something done at the expense of others, since your point is that capitalism is exploitative. And regarding your question, that's not an expense, that's a hypothetical. Plus we know those resources could not be better spent elsewhere, because if they could be, I would be offered more than $40 for it by someone else, or you would have spent that $40 on something you needed more than the card. The very fact that I traded the card for $40, and you traded that $40 for the card, means that we as individuals chose this as the best use of our resources in this situation.



Own as in I have control over it, can claim objective ethical right to it (I used my own body and mind to create or obtain them without forcing them out of anyone else), and have the support and agreement of society that these coins belong to me, since those I am involved with agree that I obtained them fairly.

Private property as in things that I can rightfully claim to belong to me. That I own.

Communism uses money like rubles, pesos, and yuan. RBE doesn't.

tl, dr

recource based economy is really just communism

The free market and innovation from the private sector will be more efficient than any public creation. Bitcoin is supposed to be more efficient that the fiat system that is made to give power to the rulers and allow them to lie, cheat and go to war.

Bitcoin will be finished by the time humanity is ready to stablish an RBU. An RBU implies no private property and no monetary system. We are faaaaar from there so BTC is a good transition tool for now.

How is Bitcoin inefficient and not adhering to the principles of the scientific method? The incompatibility lies in that Bitcoin is part of a monetary system and market economy, whereas TZM rejects the monetary system and the market economy entirely. Bitcoin and the blockchain could evolve beyond that though, but only if there's enough people who want that. It all still boils down to the people and what they want. Bitcoin in the end is just a handy tool we can use, but people decide how to use it.

Bitcoin is very efficient and requires very little energy. In fact, Satoshi once powered the entire Bitcoin network by himself. The free market is based on the math of economics. Bitcoin is based on math as well.  Math is universal.

Ive loosely followed TZM & PJ for a couple years now, they basically dont mention bitcoin much if at all its a shame.  Unless im mistaken the main goal of TZM is to increase the numbers of value shifted people.  Is increasing numbers the best main goal right now?

When ive mentioned bitcoin/crypto to some random TZMers ive had quite a bit of negative reaction along the lines of its just another greed money based system.... which maybe that has some truth in it but come on, we have to think at least a little bit practically to transition.  

If they put out more content on crypto i'd have more trust in TZM.  

I too am a part of TZM and followed bitcoin before then. It would be interesting to see the role bitcoin has on TZM

^

ok very nice explanation seriously!, i wish TZM would just go full on bitcoin i've only heard it briefly mentioned before and it seems like it could be the key transitional technology.

You got it. A wise man once told me "If you can't go around, sometimes you have to go through." Bitcoin is an energy based economy. It's a stepping stone to where all resources will one day be represented on the blockchain through smart contracts. Its transparency will enable social forces to negotiate fair trading. Eventually, that fair trading will simply become automated.

Ok fair point, not much to add my end i guess i just wish evolution would speed up. I like the idea of living in a RBE. Bitcoin seems like a step towards this so might aswell just support bitcoin atm.

We already have a volunteer military in the US. In fact the US Constitution proscribes a standing army. Many communities have volunteer sheriffs and fire chiefs. Why would people not want to volunteer to serve their communities?

Ok so how would this distributed decentralized peacekeeping system look like?  &  Whats the incentive for people to "join" it?

The basic necessities of life are not so different than the luxuries. They are all made of mostly fairly common elements. What differentiates them is intellectual property. Storing and distributing information is the key. Well that, and the ability to threaten the existence of attackers. But that is also intellectual property. Perhaps a decentralized and distributed peacekeeping system would address this need.

Ok, I'll answer. I own those bitcoins. Those bitcoins are my property. The raw materials I work to create are my property. Yes, I can own a sequence of bits, or more specifically the secret that lets me control those sequence of bits. I own my thoughts and my ideas, the secret securing my private keys being one of them.