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Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] - page 134. (Read 771280 times)

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
FYI: New Difficulty! 26% jump! 1,789,546,951

next estimated diffiulty is: 2281294530.34770063

if we don't get hashing soon, like soon, like THIS MONTH… (insert F.U.D.)

Let it settle - the estimate is always less accurate just after an adjustment because of the low sample size of blocks being measured.

In a few days the estimated next difficulty will be more accurate (and hopefully not as disastrously high as the prediction above)
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
decentralize EVERYTHING...
FYI: New Difficulty! 26% jump! 1,789,546,951

next estimated diffiulty is: 2281294530.34770063

if we don't get hashing soon, like soon, like THIS MONTH… (insert F.U.D.)
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
If it takes 4 months to get miners, with current funds we could pull 1% network hashrate day 1.... 4 months is enough to start from scratch.... I still rate the possibility of having miners within 4 months at about 50% but the return on investment potential makes the risk worth it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop speculating about everything you insecure bloody teenagers.

Can you explain how you want to make profit when VMC has miners in 4 months only? Even with the best miner VMC is selling now and you start mining on february the first... you will not even double your investment in 6 months. Starting to mine in march the first means no profit at all. And you speak about 4 months from now? I wonder what profit margin you see on the price on VMC-Miners. I think you are too optimistic. http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

And please stop naming sceptics. I lost way more bitcoins on mining companies than i would like to admit. Being sensitive to problems is nothing bad. Bad is only when people are so fearful that they crush the small hope to make something a success still by doing something stupid.

It doesn't matter when VMC/ActM has miners - as one of only two miner/spade shops VMC/ActM will be able to grow and produce profit indefinitely. If we start mining in Feb we'll have 10% network hash-rate pretty rapidly. We've got enough cash to produce 2.8PH of mining hardware...

The only way network hash rate and difficulty can increase to the 160 billion difficulty required to make VMC hardware unprofitable to run, is if the price of BTC goes up, and if it does then VMC hardware remains profitable. The current BTC price supports up to around 9EH/s of hardware mining profitably - that would require about $10billion of investment... Either its not going to happen, or VMC is going to profit from it happening. Or the perfect storm, ActM mines, VMC sells hardware, BTC Price goes up....

Don't get me wrong, I wish Ken would hurry up and hash already, but if bitcoin goes well, and bitcoin mining goes well (hell, even if it doesn't) then ActM will go well.

Oh man...how about a little more thinking? Avalon team had enough cash on hands to build a whole shit of hashrate, ASICMiner had a tone shit of money to raise a lot of hashrate(10k$ for 1TH?). Don't fool yourself with dreams. Virtually there were a lot more ventures that were in that position before ActM with an actual chip. This venture has nothing up to this date. Wake up!

Edit: 160 billion difficulty before VMC hardware unprofitable to run? That's a funny one! What power consumption  are you using?

+1 finally a post with some fucking realism

Also - on the 160bn difficulty - does this include data centre space renting costs, maintenance, support etc? I doubt it
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
If it takes 4 months to get miners, with current funds we could pull 1% network hashrate day 1.... 4 months is enough to start from scratch.... I still rate the possibility of having miners within 4 months at about 50% but the return on investment potential makes the risk worth it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop speculating about everything you insecure bloody teenagers.

Can you explain how you want to make profit when VMC has miners in 4 months only? Even with the best miner VMC is selling now and you start mining on february the first... you will not even double your investment in 6 months. Starting to mine in march the first means no profit at all. And you speak about 4 months from now? I wonder what profit margin you see on the price on VMC-Miners. I think you are too optimistic. http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

And please stop naming sceptics. I lost way more bitcoins on mining companies than i would like to admit. Being sensitive to problems is nothing bad. Bad is only when people are so fearful that they crush the small hope to make something a success still by doing something stupid.

It doesn't matter when VMC/ActM has miners - as one of only two miner/spade shops VMC/ActM will be able to grow and produce profit indefinitely. If we start mining in Feb we'll have 10% network hash-rate pretty rapidly. We've got enough cash to produce 2.8PH of mining hardware...

The only way network hash rate and difficulty can increase to the 160 billion difficulty required to make VMC hardware unprofitable to run, is if the price of BTC goes up, and if it does then VMC hardware remains profitable. The current BTC price supports up to around 9EH/s of hardware mining profitably - that would require about $10billion of investment... Either its not going to happen, or VMC is going to profit from it happening. Or the perfect storm, ActM mines, VMC sells hardware, BTC Price goes up....

Don't get me wrong, I wish Ken would hurry up and hash already, but if bitcoin goes well, and bitcoin mining goes well (hell, even if it doesn't) then ActM will go well.

Oh man...how about a little more thinking? Avalon team had enough cash on hands to build a whole shit of hashrate, ASICMiner had a tone shit of money to raise a lot of hashrate(10k$ for 1TH?). Don't fool yourself with dreams. Virtually there were a lot more ventures that were in that position before ActM with an actual chip. This venture has nothing up to this date. Wake up!

Edit: 160 billion difficulty before VMC hardware unprofitable to run? That's a funny one! What power consumption  are you using?
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1004
If it takes 4 months to get miners, with current funds we could pull 1% network hashrate day 1.... 4 months is enough to start from scratch.... I still rate the possibility of having miners within 4 months at about 50% but the return on investment potential makes the risk worth it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop speculating about everything you insecure bloody teenagers.

Can you explain how you want to make profit when VMC has miners in 4 months only? Even with the best miner VMC is selling now and you start mining on february the first... you will not even double your investment in 6 months. Starting to mine in march the first means no profit at all. And you speak about 4 months from now? I wonder what profit margin you see on the price on VMC-Miners. I think you are too optimistic. http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

And please stop naming sceptics. I lost way more bitcoins on mining companies than i would like to admit. Being sensitive to problems is nothing bad. Bad is only when people are so fearful that they crush the small hope to make something a success still by doing something stupid.

It doesn't matter when VMC/ActM has miners - as one of only two miner/spade shops VMC/ActM will be able to grow and produce profit indefinitely. If we start mining in Feb we'll have 10% network hash-rate pretty rapidly. We've got enough cash to produce 2.8PH of mining hardware...

The only way network hash rate and difficulty can increase to the 160 billion difficulty required to make VMC hardware unprofitable to run, is if the price of BTC goes up, and if it does then VMC hardware remains profitable. The current BTC price supports up to around 9EH/s of hardware mining profitably - that would require about $10billion of investment... Either its not going to happen, or VMC is going to profit from it happening. Or the perfect storm, ActM mines, VMC sells hardware, BTC Price goes up....

Don't get me wrong, I wish Ken would hurry up and hash already, but if bitcoin goes well, and bitcoin mining goes well (hell, even if it doesn't) then ActM will go well.

Of course it matters when ActM's miners become available. The later they're ready, the smaller the share of the network they'll capture and the less BTC they'll mine. It also means less sales and reduced profit on each sale due to being weak compared to the competition. It means that most share holders will not recover the cost they paid for their shares.

Also, just because ActM can make their own chips, that doesn't mean they can make as many as they want. They have to book time at the fab, then it takes a certain amount of time to actually produce the batch of wafers, turn those wafers into chips, put the chips on a card and put the cards in a system. It also costs money. What you see is that companies produce a batch of miners then have to wait a while before they get more chips to produce more miners. Each batch of wafers has to do them till the next batch arrives. That means that companies are restricted to bringing online x amount of hashing power, where x depends of the hashing speed and number of working chips in the batch.

ActM will not be able to bring enough hashing power online to maintain their network share and because of that, it will not be able to pay out 0.0025 BTC to 10 million shares. People will be lucky to get 0.001 BTC per share.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Hodl!
Oh I strawmanned a strawman that you are now attempting to strawman to look intelligent, how silly of me.

I gain nothing by destroying you, you have no credibility here, no respect, I'll look like a skinhead beating up a hobo.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Hodl!
No, d00d, I do.  Don't bullshit people if you don't like being called on it.  Or, at least, get better at bullshitting.
Oh if you insist...

#1 indication of cluelessness: Doesn't realise there's a difference between the process size of the chip and the positioning of chips on the boards. "Derp, joo can't place duh 28nm chips like der 130nm chips because dose are obsolescent"

#2 indication of cluelessness: Doesn't realise there's a difference between the thermal problems of a ~200W chip and a ~400W chip "Derp, KNC can use a air cooled heatsink on a ~200W Chip so doing it with der 400W must be real easy too"

#3 indication of cluelessness: Doesn't realise that heat will have to be distributed and spread 3 dimensionally out of a 2 dimensional area, and the difference between 1 square inch and 4 half inch squares is that they basically lose half their conduction path each when butted together. "Derp, that should oughta be okay, I mount my CPU sinks with der CPU right in one corner because dey work just as well like dat"

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Something like $6mil in capital left after fulfilling customers orders... $2/gh... something like that. $2/gh is fairly conservative for a manufacturer.
Could you explain the math behind 2.8PH?

Which manufacturer released the $2/gh costs?  I thought stuff like that was kept under wraps?  A link would really help.  Thanks in advance.

2 manufacturers are currently retailing at $3/gh - I forget who did the maths on $/gh but its less than $1/gh in finished machines.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
decentralize EVERYTHING...
PSA:

"members" with no or low activity counts are NOOBS and do not have a clue what they're talking about.

Treat them like rats and don't engage with scumbag, lowlife, know-nothing noobs on this thread.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Boards like Avalon clones are already at the edge of obsolescence.
KnC has no trouble with conventional, "cheap, simple, reliable and well characterized thermal solutions," lol.
While water cooling might have been bleeding edge in the 90s, it's consumer-level commonplace today.
Ken never built any miners, including Avalon clones.  The fact that he was *going* to build them gives him exactly zero experience with any design, obsolescent or otherwise.
It pays to know the basics about your subject before bringing up "watts per meter" and brandishing absurdities like "100W out of four half inch squares."


Dude, you just have no clue.

No, d00d, I do.  Don't bullshit people if you don't like being called on it.  Or, at least, get better at bullshitting.
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
Something like $6mil in capital left after fulfilling customers orders... $2/gh... something like that. $2/gh is fairly conservative for a manufacturer.
Could you explain the math behind 2.8PH?

Which manufacturer released the $2/gh costs?  I thought stuff like that was kept under wraps?  A link would really help.  Thanks in advance.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Hodl!
Boards like Avalon clones are already at the edge of obsolescence.
KnC has no trouble with conventional, "cheap, simple, reliable and well characterized thermal solutions," lol.
While water cooling might have been bleeding edge in the 90s, it's consumer-level commonplace today.
Ken never built any miners, including Avalon clones.  The fact that he was *going* to build them gives him exactly zero experience with any design, obsolescent or otherwise.
It pays to know the basics about your subject before bringing up "watts per meter" and brandishing absurdities like "100W out of four half inch squares."


Dude, you just have no clue.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
You guys have to stop saying "we" when referring to actm / vmc mining anything. They will be mining if they ever make anything, and you will not. Maybe they will punt a few bitcents to the imaginary shareholders to keep the lawsuits at bay, but it will never be a proportional share of any profits. This is one of the most obvious outcomes. They won't even let you have imaginary shares to trade, why would they give you valid ones?
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Just remember, every time he deletes a post he's doing it to hide the truth.  This pertains to any mention of the lies, deceit, or incompetency.  He doesn't want this to rub off on all shareholders.  He wants us to remain confident so that he can drag out this scam as long as possible.  That is exactly what Labcoin did.  The more time that passes, the more likely he is to get away with it.  Sure he's giving out refunds to customers, but I would love to hold onto $6 million dollars as well -- it would be like a loan with unlimited benefits.  Not to mention a beautiful salary for my entire family from shareholders funds.  Why the FUCK would I support anything he says/does when he has already benefited from this venture while we haven't seen a dime since the eASIC news?   Hopefully as the supporters gradually shift ofter to share my position, we will have more support against this terrible crime.  Only then can we work as a group rather than bicker amongst ourselves.  The only barrier is time.

Remember that every time he deletes something you can always go here and repost it: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/kslaughter-and-zumzero-from-actm-and-vmc-are-deleting-legitimate-posts-253282


If you are gonna say that, what is your proof it isn't a scam. There is NOTHING leaning towards the not a scam side so far. No miners, no shipped product, lost shares, total bs about shares, lies about shipping.


C'mon son.

Listen up, I'm not out for a witch hunt.  Don't assume my side because I am not a cheerleader.  Literally everything you said was subjective, I was looking more for actual facts and verifiable lies.  You can't say someone is a liar without proving their intention.  I could spurt out just as much opinion and speculation in support of ACTM, it just seems like VE is so certain of criminality that I was curious as to what his last straw was.

Go read labcoin thread. It's a lot bigger than this one, but there were people just like you.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Something like $6mil in capital left after fulfilling customers orders... $2/gh... something like that. $2/gh is fairly conservative for a manufacturer.
Could you explain the math behind 2.8PH?
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
We won't be mining in february, so get that out of your head.
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
If it takes 4 months to get miners, with current funds we could pull 1% network hashrate day 1.... 4 months is enough to start from scratch.... I still rate the possibility of having miners within 4 months at about 50% but the return on investment potential makes the risk worth it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop speculating about everything you insecure bloody teenagers.

Can you explain how you want to make profit when VMC has miners in 4 months only? Even with the best miner VMC is selling now and you start mining on february the first... you will not even double your investment in 6 months. Starting to mine in march the first means no profit at all. And you speak about 4 months from now? I wonder what profit margin you see on the price on VMC-Miners. I think you are too optimistic. http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

And please stop naming sceptics. I lost way more bitcoins on mining companies than i would like to admit. Being sensitive to problems is nothing bad. Bad is only when people are so fearful that they crush the small hope to make something a success still by doing something stupid.

It doesn't matter when VMC/ActM has miners - as one of only two miner/spade shops VMC/ActM will be able to grow and produce profit indefinitely. If we start mining in Feb we'll have 10% network hash-rate pretty rapidly. We've got enough cash to produce 2.8PH of mining hardware...

Could you explain the math behind 2.8PH?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
If it takes 4 months to get miners, with current funds we could pull 1% network hashrate day 1.... 4 months is enough to start from scratch.... I still rate the possibility of having miners within 4 months at about 50% but the return on investment potential makes the risk worth it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop speculating about everything you insecure bloody teenagers.

Can you explain how you want to make profit when VMC has miners in 4 months only? Even with the best miner VMC is selling now and you start mining on february the first... you will not even double your investment in 6 months. Starting to mine in march the first means no profit at all. And you speak about 4 months from now? I wonder what profit margin you see on the price on VMC-Miners. I think you are too optimistic. http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

And please stop naming sceptics. I lost way more bitcoins on mining companies than i would like to admit. Being sensitive to problems is nothing bad. Bad is only when people are so fearful that they crush the small hope to make something a success still by doing something stupid.

It doesn't matter when VMC/ActM has miners - as one of only two miner/spade shops VMC/ActM will be able to grow and produce profit indefinitely. If we start mining in Feb we'll have 10% network hash-rate pretty rapidly. We've got enough cash to produce 2.8PH of mining hardware...

The only way network hash rate and difficulty can increase to the 160 billion difficulty required to make VMC hardware unprofitable to run, is if the price of BTC goes up, and if it does then VMC hardware remains profitable. The current BTC price supports up to around 9EH/s of hardware mining profitably - that would require about $10billion of investment... Either its not going to happen, or VMC is going to profit from it happening. Or the perfect storm, ActM mines, VMC sells hardware, BTC Price goes up....

Don't get me wrong, I wish Ken would hurry up and hash already, but if bitcoin goes well, and bitcoin mining goes well (hell, even if it doesn't) then ActM will go well.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
If it takes 4 months to get miners, with current funds we could pull 1% network hashrate day 1.... 4 months is enough to start from scratch.... I still rate the possibility of having miners within 4 months at about 50% but the return on investment potential makes the risk worth it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop speculating about everything you insecure bloody teenagers.

Can you explain how you want to make profit when VMC has miners in 4 months only? Even with the best miner VMC is selling now and you start mining on february the first... you will not even double your investment in 6 months. Starting to mine in march the first means no profit at all. And you speak about 4 months from now? I wonder what profit margin you see on the price on VMC-Miners. I think you are too optimistic. http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

And please stop naming sceptics. I lost way more bitcoins on mining companies than i would like to admit. Being sensitive to problems is nothing bad. Bad is only when people are so fearful that they crush the small hope to make something a success still by doing something stupid.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Their chip is simply too slow compared to the competition which will cause them to run in to problems during deployment, problems such as physical space, power constraints, cooling issues, etc.

That might actually be opposite the truth. Going for too large a die concentrates your power supply and heat removal problems. Thus we could see boards built like Avalon modules with multiple ASICs on that require only air cooling. Given that Ken WAS going to build avalon clones before the avalon chips fell through, he has experience with this type of design. The watts per meter square may be low enough such that cheap, simple, reliable and well characterized thermal solutions are possible rather than expensive, exotic, failure prone bleeding edge ones. Expecting to remove 400W from a contiguous square inch of silicon is bordering on the insane, expecting to pull 100W out of four half inch squares is much more reasonable.

Boards like Avalon clones are already at the edge of obsolescence.
KnC has no trouble with conventional, "cheap, simple, reliable and well characterized thermal solutions," lol.
While water cooling might have been bleeding edge in the 90s, it's consumer-level commonplace today.
Ken never built any miners, including Avalon clones.  The fact that he was *going* to build them gives him exactly zero experience with any design, obsolescent or otherwise.
It pays to know the basics about your subject before bringing up "watts per meter" and brandishing absurdities like "100W out of four half inch squares."
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