Am I a bad person if I manage to avoid taxes? (Hypothetical question) - page 2.

mv1986

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Quote from: mirakal on August 15, 2023, 10:40:22 AM

Quote from: AicecreaME on August 10, 2023, 06:37:55 AM

I don't how you're going to avoid all of your taxes, but you'll get exposed soon and you won't like what's waiting for you.

Avoiding your taxes isn't the solution to battle inflation, you might save some money but you're still going to spend it on buying the things you need and wants and that's still consider as paying taxes. But to answer the your question, yes, you're a bad person if you're avoiding some of your taxes, whether it's every month or every year.

It's actually not that bad if you can evade it legally, I know it's not something that is frequently talked in the society today because it is our responsibility as a citizen to pay taxes but in line with the topic, you'll be surprised that most billionaires and other rich individuals are even getting away with it without having any problems because as I said, they have done it in a legal way. Well, not evading wholly because they are still paying a big sum annually (food, clothes, wants and other needs that are also taxed beforehand are not included) but not as big if they are not having some techniques to evade some of their taxes legally.

Yes but you need resources to access valuable resources. What you brought up as an example here is typical for that. A billionaire can consult the best tax lawyers and strategists to save tons of money on top of the tons of money he is earning anyway. The average person doesn't have the money to pay for those who would be best to save them any money. This is also a reason why the rich get richer. To set up corporate structures and apply other tricks to legally save money, actually costs a lot of money, but for rich people the spending is relatively low in relation to their income. That is where average people get stuck as they can't spend the needed relative share of their income to then save part of their income from being taxed.

The question whether it makes you a bad person is up to you, but imagine everyone would avoid taxes to a degree that the infrastructure you also use suffers so hard from shortcomings in tax spending that you can't use the streets anymore or don't get an appointment with a doctor because there are no doctors anymore.

Yogee

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Quote from: xSkylarx on August 21, 2023, 01:00:13 AM

Quote from: edy_58 on August 20, 2023, 10:41:37 PM

Quote from: marcous on August 20, 2023, 02:37:14 PM

In my personal opinion, avoiding taxes is not an illegal act and most people consider this method legal in the eyes of the law. Because in essence we are taking advantage of the loopholes in the rules that exist in the law, but if we practice this method it will have an impact on the income of a country, of course. Although on the other hand, we as tax payers face difficulties in terms of size.

This happens in almost all countries, the large amount of tax deductions greatly affects the income of individuals and business groups, such as companies. But whatever it is, as long as it doesn't violate I think it's legal to use.

Yes, you are right, if we take advantage of loopholes in the law to avoid taxes, it will certainly affect state revenues. As you said, on the other hand, paying taxes also burdens us to meet our needs. In my opinion, if we can't afford to pay taxes, it would be better for us to take advantage of loopholes in the law by not paying them so that we don't burden ourselves and don't violate applicable laws.

But how? I noticed that rich people can take advantage of it, and I don't see any action from the government, mostly because they are just blind to it, unless they see hard proof that they are earning some huge amount, like in sports, when ever someone wins a fight or game, the tax department will then say in your face to pay off the taxes based on your winnings but not based on your net worth. We poor and middle-class people don't have a choice but to pay it off, or else we will have a huge problem later on if we don't.

Notice how marcous use the word "avoid" and associated it with "legal". This is what's commonly known as tax avoidance which is different from of tax evasion. The former is legal while the latter is not. One thing I don't agree with what he said is the taking advantage of the "loopholes". That is not necessarily the case since Governments intentionally allows these tax incentives to encourage growth in the business sector. More businesses means higher employment and that also means more income taxes that can be collected from the middle class.

It's not about being blind.

Farma

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Quote from: Finestream on August 15, 2023, 05:58:14 PM

In our own eyes, not really. But in the eyes of the law, you are certainly a bad person because you enjoy all your country’s provisions and yet you refuse to pay your taxes in return. It could be very unfair for those who pay their taxes well. However, I can’t blame those who want to evade paying tax because we have different financial situations on hand. But as much as possible, if you don’t want to be the government eyeing on you, then it’s better to just do our duties and responsibilities as a bonafide citizen.

Well, if we talk about the laws of a country, then evading taxes is a bad thing, but for some personal, it might not be a bad thing.
We feel how to manage the money we have, or the business transactions and profits we have. Some people sometimes still need the money to run their business in order to stay on a fairly profitable track. at a time like that, he is required to pay taxes, and the choice is whether he loses or not. So, a lot of people are trying to avoid taxes for a while until things normalize. that is reasonable in my opinion. However, according to the law, that is something wrong. It all depends on how one reacts to it.

xSkylarx

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Quote from: edy_58 on August 20, 2023, 10:41:37 PM

Quote from: marcous on August 20, 2023, 02:37:14 PM

In my personal opinion, avoiding taxes is not an illegal act and most people consider this method legal in the eyes of the law. Because in essence we are taking advantage of the loopholes in the rules that exist in the law, but if we practice this method it will have an impact on the income of a country, of course. Although on the other hand, we as tax payers face difficulties in terms of size.

This happens in almost all countries, the large amount of tax deductions greatly affects the income of individuals and business groups, such as companies. But whatever it is, as long as it doesn't violate I think it's legal to use.

Yes, you are right, if we take advantage of loopholes in the law to avoid taxes, it will certainly affect state revenues. As you said, on the other hand, paying taxes also burdens us to meet our needs. In my opinion, if we can't afford to pay taxes, it would be better for us to take advantage of loopholes in the law by not paying them so that we don't burden ourselves and don't violate applicable laws.

But how? I noticed that rich people can take advantage of it, and I don't see any action from the government, mostly because they are just blind to it, unless they see hard proof that they are earning some huge amount, like in sports, when ever someone wins a fight or game, the tax department will then say in your face to pay off the taxes based on your winnings but not based on your net worth. We poor and middle-class people don't have a choice but to pay it off, or else we will have a huge problem later on if we don't.

edy_58

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Quote from: marcous on August 20, 2023, 02:37:14 PM

In my personal opinion, avoiding taxes is not an illegal act and most people consider this method legal in the eyes of the law. Because in essence we are taking advantage of the loopholes in the rules that exist in the law, but if we practice this method it will have an impact on the income of a country, of course. Although on the other hand, we as tax payers face difficulties in terms of size.

This happens in almost all countries, the large amount of tax deductions greatly affects the income of individuals and business groups, such as companies. But whatever it is, as long as it doesn't violate I think it's legal to use.

Yes, you are right, if we take advantage of loopholes in the law to avoid taxes, it will certainly affect state revenues. As you said, on the other hand, paying taxes also burdens us to meet our needs. In my opinion, if we can't afford to pay taxes, it would be better for us to take advantage of loopholes in the law by not paying them so that we don't burden ourselves and don't violate applicable laws.

lousie9

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Quote from: slapper on August 16, 2023, 09:37:07 AM

Quote from: Sebas.tian on August 16, 2023, 01:52:54 AM

Yes, the person is a bad person according to our law which it can lead that person to spend some months in the prison, because that is the sources of the government income in every countries in the world. I don't think, is all government that used the taxes income to finance their family or their personal business, because there is a law that governed that aspect and if any administration found guilty of corruption in that area they will be punish for such attitude, because the taxes income belong to the people in that land which we called government. If you fail to pay your taxes as a citizen, I think it will be difficult for you to enjoy the benefits of your country because you will not have full right to enter some places in the country.

Are you that foolish to think laws and governments work perfectly? You stated textbook and idealized concepts, but reality can and often is very different. Laws are cultural structures produced by authority, and power can manipulate them.

You cite corrupt administration penalty, but how often has justice been served? Bureaucracy and red tape protect powerful people. Thus, although a common man pays taxes and fears the consequences of evasion, those with power and influence may bend the rules to their whim.

And that not paying taxes deprives the government of a benefit? Please note that benefits are typically taken before they reach the public. In a dog-eat-dog world, your idealistic beliefs are wonderful but tragically foolish.

Don't be like that, I think we all also can't blame Sebas.tian for having such a perception and expressing an opinion like that because what he said was actually what should have happened, right?.
But ironically, I more agree with what you said, because what you said is the reality that occurs in almost all over the world, it is true that the system of law and government is not always perfect and not always really run according to the rules they make. Anywhere, the system of laws and regulations may be subject to and can be manipulated by a group of people in power.

marcous

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In my personal opinion, avoiding taxes is not an illegal act and most people consider this method legal in the eyes of the law. Because in essence we are taking advantage of the loopholes in the rules that exist in the law, but if we practice this method it will have an impact on the income of a country, of course. Although on the other hand, we as tax payers face difficulties in terms of size.

This happens in almost all countries, the large amount of tax deductions greatly affects the income of individuals and business groups, such as companies. But whatever it is, as long as it doesn't violate I think it's legal to use.

Gun Boat

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Quote from: bittraffic on June 29, 2023, 01:21:12 PM

It must be a dilemma for all since we have been taxed over and over. I feel the same way too but because I'm an employee and my employer already is deducting those taxes from my pay, there is nothing else to do.

Quote from: Synchronice on June 29, 2023, 01:05:03 PM

So, my legitimate question is, after all the robbery, a person, who doesn't pay taxes, is a bad person for the society or not? More likely I want to get answer from those whose countries have a model similar of European healthcare and employment insurance.

In the eyes of the government, everybody has to contribute. Kind of unfair sometimes with the redundant taxes but that's our duty to our government as we do benefit thru the health cards and infrastructures they built for us to use.

Avoiding taxes can tag one as a bad person for the reason that it is illegal to do that and can have serious consequences.

In as much as the economy is not stable and depending on one's salaries to pay taxes it's important to fulfill our civic duties and contribute to the economic growth of the society.

inthelongrun

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Quote from: Haunebu on August 16, 2023, 03:32:00 AM

Avoiding taxes doesn't make you a bad person op and everyone feels that way, but very few have the balls to openly speak about it. This tax crap primarily affects the middle class when compared to other classes.

First world countries at the very least provide proper returns for your taxes while third world countries provide negligible returns for your taxes making their governments a whole lot worse.

As they say, nothing can be certain except for death and taxes.

This is really true. I came from a developing country but our system is very corrupt from the top to the bottom. No wonder other countries are bypassing us already in terms of development and progress.

I have already forgotten most of the taxation lessons during my college days but it is very clear that the middle class or the working class are the ones paying high taxes. Companies and corporations have many strategies and benefits for tax avoidance. Rich people in my country can even register dummy businesses here and then put all the expenses to make the regular report without a net income which means no tax to pay.

slapper

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Quote from: Sebas.tian on August 16, 2023, 01:52:54 AM

Yes, the person is a bad person according to our law which it can lead that person to spend some months in the prison, because that is the sources of the government income in every countries in the world. I don't think, is all government that used the taxes income to finance their family or their personal business, because there is a law that governed that aspect and if any administration found guilty of corruption in that area they will be punish for such attitude, because the taxes income belong to the people in that land which we called government. If you fail to pay your taxes as a citizen, I think it will be difficult for you to enjoy the benefits of your country because you will not have full right to enter some places in the country.

Are you that foolish to think laws and governments work perfectly? You stated textbook and idealized concepts, but reality can and often is very different. Laws are cultural structures produced by authority, and power can manipulate them.

You cite corrupt administration penalty, but how often has justice been served? Bureaucracy and red tape protect powerful people. Thus, although a common man pays taxes and fears the consequences of evasion, those with power and influence may bend the rules to their whim.

And that not paying taxes deprives the government of a benefit? Please note that benefits are typically taken before they reach the public. In a dog-eat-dog world, your idealistic beliefs are wonderful but tragically foolish.

Haunebu

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Avoiding taxes doesn't make you a bad person op and everyone feels that way, but very few have the balls to openly speak about it. This tax crap primarily affects the middle class when compared to other classes.

First world countries at the very least provide proper returns for your taxes while third world countries provide negligible returns for your taxes making their governments a whole lot worse.

As they say, nothing can be certain except for death and taxes.

Sebas.tian

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Yes, the person is a bad person according to our law which it can lead that person to spend some months in the prison, because that is the sources of the government income in every countries in the world. I don't think, is all government that used the taxes income to finance their family or their personal business, because there is a law that governed that aspect and if any administration found guilty of corruption in that area they will be punish for such attitude, because the taxes income belong to the people in that land which we called government. If you fail to pay your taxes as a citizen, I think it will be difficult for you to enjoy the benefits of your country because you will not have full right to enter some places in the country.

xSkylarx

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Quote from: awik p on August 16, 2023, 01:11:04 AM

Quote from: mirakal on August 15, 2023, 10:40:22 AM

Quote from: AicecreaME on August 10, 2023, 06:37:55 AM

I don't how you're going to avoid all of your taxes, but you'll get exposed soon and you won't like what's waiting for you.

Avoiding your taxes isn't the solution to battle inflation, you might save some money but you're still going to spend it on buying the things you need and wants and that's still consider as paying taxes. But to answer the your question, yes, you're a bad person if you're avoiding some of your taxes, whether it's every month or every year.

It's actually not that bad if you can evade it legally, I know it's not something that is frequently talked in the society today because it is our responsibility as a citizen to pay taxes but in line with the topic, you'll be surprised that most billionaires and other rich individuals are even getting away with it without having any problems because as I said, they have done it in a legal way. Well, not evading wholly because they are still paying a big sum annually (food, clothes, wants and other needs that are also taxed beforehand are not included) but not as big if they are not having some techniques to evade some of their taxes legally.

Avoiding taxes will only be a time bomb, as if we are hiding what we have, and what we are fighting against is the state, where the government can do anything to us, including blocking assets. but if we can avoid it legally maybe this will be a different story, considering that taxes also aim to build a country, even though many people are disappointed with the person, but the country's large income comes from taxes, and of course we as good citizens must obey against government regulations

No matter how mad you are at the government, you will still end up having to pay it in the future. I did have a coworker before that got laid off and found an online job, and he didn't update his tax info and didn't pay his taxes. Later on, when he found a job in an office, it required them to have a record in the tax department, and he was shocked as it was very huge, and he had no choice but to pay it off until now because if not, he couldn't start on his work. No matter how you evade it, it will still keep coming back to you, and you'll end up paying it.

awik p

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Quote from: mirakal on August 15, 2023, 10:40:22 AM

Quote from: AicecreaME on August 10, 2023, 06:37:55 AM

I don't how you're going to avoid all of your taxes, but you'll get exposed soon and you won't like what's waiting for you.

Avoiding your taxes isn't the solution to battle inflation, you might save some money but you're still going to spend it on buying the things you need and wants and that's still consider as paying taxes. But to answer the your question, yes, you're a bad person if you're avoiding some of your taxes, whether it's every month or every year.

It's actually not that bad if you can evade it legally, I know it's not something that is frequently talked in the society today because it is our responsibility as a citizen to pay taxes but in line with the topic, you'll be surprised that most billionaires and other rich individuals are even getting away with it without having any problems because as I said, they have done it in a legal way. Well, not evading wholly because they are still paying a big sum annually (food, clothes, wants and other needs that are also taxed beforehand are not included) but not as big if they are not having some techniques to evade some of their taxes legally.

Avoiding taxes will only be a time bomb, as if we are hiding what we have, and what we are fighting against is the state, where the government can do anything to us, including blocking assets. but if we can avoid it legally maybe this will be a different story, considering that taxes also aim to build a country, even though many people are disappointed with the person, but the country's large income comes from taxes, and of course we as good citizens must obey against government regulations

Finestream

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In our own eyes, not really. But in the eyes of the law, you are certainly a bad person because you enjoy all your country’s provisions and yet you refuse to pay your taxes in return. It could be very unfair for those who pay their taxes well. However, I can’t blame those who want to evade paying tax because we have different financial situations on hand. But as much as possible, if you don’t want to be the government eyeing on you, then it’s better to just do our duties and responsibilities as a bonafide citizen.

mirakal

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Quote from: AicecreaME on August 10, 2023, 06:37:55 AM

I don't how you're going to avoid all of your taxes, but you'll get exposed soon and you won't like what's waiting for you.

Avoiding your taxes isn't the solution to battle inflation, you might save some money but you're still going to spend it on buying the things you need and wants and that's still consider as paying taxes. But to answer the your question, yes, you're a bad person if you're avoiding some of your taxes, whether it's every month or every year.

It's actually not that bad if you can evade it legally, I know it's not something that is frequently talked in the society today because it is our responsibility as a citizen to pay taxes but in line with the topic, you'll be surprised that most billionaires and other rich individuals are even getting away with it without having any problems because as I said, they have done it in a legal way. Well, not evading wholly because they are still paying a big sum annually (food, clothes, wants and other needs that are also taxed beforehand are not included) but not as big if they are not having some techniques to evade some of their taxes legally.

Broly46

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Why do you open this thread to ask the opinions? Are you feeling bad about it too? If you feel bad about it, then do you expect us to think otherwise and give you the priviledge of doubts? Btw I know deep inside you, you are feeling uneasy, it is also the reason you feel compelled to open a thread like this. This is satrical reply.

Pierre 2

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I guess there are two ways to avoid taxes. One is finding totally legal loopholes - which must be hard and only someone professional can do it. I don't think this is unethical honestly. If you follow legit ways its acceptable. But other is definitely illegal. I personally don't find it ethical. I always think about people that avoid taxes and feel like "why do I pay meanwhile they don't". But if everyone think similarly noone would pay taxes. We should not commit crimes so.

Mpamaegbu

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Quote from: Synchronice on June 29, 2023, 01:05:03 PM

It's just a hypothetical question and says nothing about me.

Even if it does have something to do with you, no one will arrest or victimize you for saying your mind 😆.

Quote from: Oshosondy on June 29, 2023, 01:23:57 PM

If no one is paying tax, that could affect the economy. Tax is important. You do not have to evade tax, pay your tax.

Everyone pays taxes whether they like it or not through indirect taxation on goods and services. If government depends solely on income tax, it will lose big time because not everyone can be taxed that way.

dothebeats

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Quote from: Viscore on August 13, 2023, 04:59:42 PM

Certainly you are. Why would a good person do that? Once you become a legal resident of a country, you should know when to respect and follow rules and laws. And by simply avoiding paying your tax, just because you feel that you are being taken advantage and you are robbed off from your own hard-earned money, I believe the state will automatically see you as the worst character because instead of helping for the welfare of the country and its citizens, you chose to break it and make your own law instead.

Well, it honestly depends on what your definition of good is. Perhaps what he did is unlawful but is it necessarily bad if he was able to avoid it because the government was not being secured enough or smart enough with their system to detect who pays taxes and who doesn't? Is being selfish necessarily bad? If he chooses to keep his/her money rather than contribute it to the welfare of the country? See, OP used the term good which does not have a precise definition. Is his/her actions bad or it is the outcome of his/her action that makes OP bad? Well, of course, that is all philosophical and ethical talk. I guess the more proper term to state is unlawful. It is unlawful and selfish if OP avoids paying taxes.

Topic: Am I a bad person if I manage to avoid taxes? (Hypothetical question) - page 2. (Read 1205 times)