Pages:
Author

Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 46. (Read 223316 times)

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Great work tonight guys!  I think we are finally on the way towards where we need to be.  While we are waiting to hear back from Ken, could someone with a legal background look at the current AMC offering on Bitfunder to see if there is any possibility and or loophole that would allow an acquisition of VMC by AMC?  Ken has insisted that as it currently stands, there is no way for that to be done, but it would not hurt to run over it to be sure.  This would certainly be the easiest way to move forward on getting everything under one roof, but if Ken can legally not modify the contract, then we will have to go about it a different way.  Currently, the plan that is being drawn up is as following:

Ken will create a VMC offering at some point (when is anyone's guess).
Trading will continue on both offerings, AMC and VMC.
At some point, AMC holders will have the option to trade AMC shares in for an equal number of VMC shares.
We can assume that when the trade options are made available, Ken will officially announce VMC's acquisition of AMC, and will set a closing date.

Ken is still looking for feedback and suggestions from the community, so please keep them coming.  Great job guys!

I think I explained the loophole already. There are two issues, one pertaining to real life money and the other to us as bitcoin investors.

The real life situation is easy to resolve, Kenneth owns both VMC and AMC so to combine them into one entity should be relatively easy.

On the bitcoin end, Kenneth can claim that AMC no longer has any profit because it was bought out, thus he can stop paying dividends. Then, he can offer users a 1-1 swap of AMC shares for VMC shares followed by freezing of the AMC asset. This will make everyone with shares in AMC swap their shares for VMC, finishing the elimination of AMC.

How this would be accomplished fairly for shareholders and at a profit for Ken has been outlined by myself in previous posts, which Kenneth seems to give approval for.

Very good!  FM, I mean this wholeheartedly when I say that I am thrilled you have come on board.  It's apparent that Ken is going to need all the help he can get from posters like you if we are going to see this succeed at the end.  Just one quick question, how would he handle the holdouts.  Surely, there will be a few who decide not to trade in 100% of their AMC for VMC.  Would they eventually become liquidated at a certain time, and the funds would then be sent to the holder's account?

From a shareholder point of view, it would make no sense to be a holdout. But lets say a few unknowing people out there do not exchange their AMC shares to VMC.

1.) They would be stuck with AMC shares but cannot do anything with them because Kenneth has frozen the AMC asset
2.) They would realize their AMC share by itself is worthless because dividends are no longer coming in
3.) They CAN (and should) swap their shares at any time for VMC shares

If they do not swap, then they would be the only ones that are negatively impacted. Neither Kenneth, you, nor I have any incentive in forcing these people to swap for VMC shares. Thus nothing actually needs to be done with people who hold out.

1.) Let me clear this up for AMC shareholders, I will never freeze the shares.  I may twist your arm to trade your shares for VMC, but I will never force anything on you.
2.) Dividends will continue for AMC unless VMC owns 100% of the shares of AMC.
3.) There might be a time limit on swapping shares.

Let me know what you think about the above.  I think the above would be fair to everyone, those that want to be part of VMC and those that want to stay in AMC.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Just one quick question, how would he handle the holdouts.  Surely, there will be a few who decide not to trade in 100% of their AMC for VMC.  Would they eventually become liquidated at a certain time, and the funds would then be sent to the holder's account?

I asked this question about uh, oh, 3 pages ago.

I don't want to force any AMC shareholders into any thing they don't want and I won't.  I may twist there arms a little.  Grin
Vbs
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Back on track please. We were doing so well.

+1 Lips sealed
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Back on track please. We were doing so well.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1000
The general feeling I am getting is that most people including myself are getting past the "AMC might be a scam" point to more of a "The way Kenneth Slaughter has set these 2 companies up is not optimal for the shareholder" viewpoint.

Few (paid) shills and dozen of really dumb investors got the lead but that does not mean scam is scam no more. I'm losing interest in helping a lot
of stupid people not got skinned here. How easily most can be persuaded into beliving anything and switch sides is disturbing. You people still have
no clue even who is Ken but it takes not much more than him posting "I'm not scammer" for you to belive it.

Sweet dreams!

Damn, I was beginning to worry! Where have you been??? Grin Grin Grin

I officially nominate Bitcoin Megastore as the hardest working person in show business.  Move over James Brown.  Look at the posting times.  That guy only needs 5 hours of sleep a day, the rest of the time he is hard at work.



You beat me to it. The ironic thing is, a history like that can only be because of 'paid' interest, surely? Or the alternative 'disturbing' thing is, it has echoes of the rpietila saga. I think he believed he was helping stupid people as well.

Scary what Bitcoin does to people eh?  Lips sealed
Vbs
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Your point? Yet another thing you have no clue about and can't figure out yourself, I guess.  Cheesy

Indeed, I'm just a small kid compared to your highness! Grin
Vbs
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
The general feeling I am getting is that most people including myself are getting past the "AMC might be a scam" point to more of a "The way Kenneth Slaughter has set these 2 companies up is not optimal for the shareholder" viewpoint.

Few (paid) shills and dozen of really dumb investors got the lead but that does not mean scam is scam no more. I'm losing interest in helping a lot
of stupid people not got skinned here. How easily most can be persuaded into beliving anything and switch sides is disturbing. You people still have
no clue even who is Ken but it takes not much more than him posting "I'm not scammer" for you to belive it.

Sweet dreams!

Damn, I was beginning to worry! Where have you been??? Grin Grin Grin

I officially nominate Bitcoin Megastore as the hardest working person in show business.  Move over James Brown.  Look at the posting times.  That guy only needs 5 hours of sleep a day, the rest of the time he is hard at work.


full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
So, my proposal for the VMC shares would be:

  • 9 to 10M for investors at 0.0025
  • 10M for Ken

For a total of 19-20M. If more funds are needed in the future, more shares can be issued as needed, as means to increase the capital of VMC.

Ken did/is doing the hard work on everything, so he should get a nice amount of shares, and it's only thanks to him that there's an ASIC coming (one year of work already on optimizing Xilinx code).

Thoughts? Smiley

These numbers look sensible to me!
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Anyone else been snacking more shares at these prices in speculation of this merger?

EDIT: I pushed the price too high btct.co now I have to wait a while.
Oh hell yes. I just doubled my position on Bitfunder. The merger and the fact that people are going to visit AMC to verify its legitimacy are amazing news. I think once potential investors wake up and see the news it won't take long for it to surge upwards.

These latest developments are fantastic news for current and future share holders. I can see Ken and us share holders getting rich out of this.  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 487
Merit: 500
Are You Shpongled?
Anyone else been snacking more shares at these prices in speculation of this merger?

EDIT: I pushed the price too high btct.co now I have to wait a while.
Oh hell yes. I just doubled my position on Bitfunder. The merger and the fact that people are going to visit AMC to verify its legitimacy are amazing news. I think once potential investors wake up and see the news it won't take long for it to surge upwards.
Vbs
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
So, my proposal for the VMC shares would be:

  • 9 to 10M for investors at 0.0025
  • 10M for Ken

For a total of 19-20M. If more funds are needed in the future, more shares can be issued as needed, as means to increase the capital of VMC.

Ken did/is doing the hard work on everything, so he should get a nice amount of shares, and it's only thanks to him that there's an ASIC coming (one year of work already on optimizing Xilinx code).

Thoughts? Smiley
Vbs
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
I hope that AMC/VMC merging will happen so that gets the biggest issue out of the way. My next suggestion would be for us to work on a capped shares in the new security. We should have the shares capped at a reasonable number to avoid diluting the shares anytime in the future. This way the shares can continue to be valuable. If Ken can flood the market with massive amounts of shares at anytime this will dilute the investors shares and dividends will decrease. I don't know what the numbers of shares would be the best but would like to hear back from the community to discuss this matter.

It's not that linear. Smiley

You are only explicitly diluting existing shareholder value if there are new shares issued with no respective profits from their issuing, i.e., the cake is the same, but now you just hold a smaller slice of it.

If new shares are issued to investors purchasing them, then there are more slices to the cake, but the cake is now bigger too, as those shares were paid for. Smiley
Vbs
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
So, great news today! Grin

Offering a 1-for-1 share swap looks good, provided there is enough time to do it (2-3 months?), as I'm sure there are a lot of people who bought AMC options already.
hero member
Activity: 499
Merit: 500
To the person asking about what happens to the AMC holdouts if VMC buys all the AMC shares:

In other stock exchanges, depending on the place of listing, there is such a thing as compulsory acquisition.  Once someone owns upwards of 90-95% of the stock of a company, they can force the remaining shareholders to sell. 

If VMC were to list on favourable terms, offering a 1-for-1 share swap of AMC shares for VMC shares, then I have no doubt that a majority of AMC shareholders would take the offer.

I'm not sure what could be done about the sell walls of AMC shares on bitfunder and btct.  Maybe he could just sell those shares to VMC, say 1-for-1 for VMC shares.   And then AMC could sell those VMC shares on-market, and because AMC is majority owned by VMC, the proceeds go to VMC.

I don't know, it's all a bit murky because AMC shareholders aren't actually shareholders - we bought a right to a fraction of the profits of the company called AMC.

No doubt the lawyers need to get involved.

sr. member
Activity: 376
Merit: 250
Great work tonight guys!  I think we are finally on the way towards where we need to be.  While we are waiting to hear back from Ken, could someone with a legal background look at the current AMC offering on Bitfunder to see if there is any possibility and or loophole that would allow an acquisition of VMC by AMC?  Ken has insisted that as it currently stands, there is no way for that to be done, but it would not hurt to run over it to be sure.  This would certainly be the easiest way to move forward on getting everything under one roof, but if Ken can legally not modify the contract, then we will have to go about it a different way.  Currently, the plan that is being drawn up is as following:

Ken will create a VMC offering at some point (when is anyone's guess).
Trading will continue on both offerings, AMC and VMC.
At some point, AMC holders will have the option to trade AMC shares in for an equal number of VMC shares.
We can assume that when the trade options are made available, Ken will officially announce VMC's acquisition of AMC, and will set a closing date.

Ken is still looking for feedback and suggestions from the community, so please keep them coming.  Great job guys!

I hope that AMC/VMC merging will happen so that gets the biggest issue out of the way. My next suggestion would be for us to work on a capped shares in the new security. We should have the shares capped at a reasonable number to avoid diluting the shares anytime in the future. This way the shares can continue to be valuable. If Ken can flood the market with massive amounts of shares at anytime this will dilute the investors shares and dividends will decrease. I don't know what the numbers of shares would be the best but would like to hear back from the community to discuss this matter.

Number of shares should be enought to cover capex with no dilution possible without shareholders voting
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Great work tonight guys!  I think we are finally on the way towards where we need to be.  While we are waiting to hear back from Ken, could someone with a legal background look at the current AMC offering on Bitfunder to see if there is any possibility and or loophole that would allow an acquisition of VMC by AMC?  Ken has insisted that as it currently stands, there is no way for that to be done, but it would not hurt to run over it to be sure.  This would certainly be the easiest way to move forward on getting everything under one roof, but if Ken can legally not modify the contract, then we will have to go about it a different way.  Currently, the plan that is being drawn up is as following:

Ken will create a VMC offering at some point (when is anyone's guess).
Trading will continue on both offerings, AMC and VMC.
At some point, AMC holders will have the option to trade AMC shares in for an equal number of VMC shares.
We can assume that when the trade options are made available, Ken will officially announce VMC's acquisition of AMC, and will set a closing date.

Ken is still looking for feedback and suggestions from the community, so please keep them coming.  Great job guys!

I hope that AMC/VMC merging will happen so that gets the biggest issue out of the way. My next suggestion would be for us to work on a capped shares in the new security. We should have the shares capped at a reasonable number to avoid diluting the shares anytime in the future. This way the shares can continue to be valuable. If Ken can flood the market with massive amounts of shares at anytime this will dilute the investors shares and dividends will decrease. I don't know what the numbers of shares would be the best but would like to hear back from the community to discuss this matter.
sr. member
Activity: 376
Merit: 250
Really progress Ken, merge of Amc with Vmc could make your business even bigger... need to save coins for new ipo  Wink
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Science!
I don't know who posted these options on BitFunder, but they may want to take them down while a potential AMC/VMC merger is being discussed:

 Call Option (Option to buy shares later)
Strike Price    Amount    Option Price    Break    End Date   
0.001750 BTC    5,000    0.000160 BTC    Yes    2013-07-30 23:13:54
hero member
Activity: 671
Merit: 500
AMC volume has really picked up in the last hour, what happened?
 Lips sealed
Democracy. Cheesy


"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49."
  -  Thomas Jefferson

What happened on this thread was proof that 50 heads are better than 1.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
AMC volume has really picked up in the last hour, what happened?
 Lips sealed
Democracy. Cheesy
Pages:
Jump to: