Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 43. (Read 223316 times)

The reasons for BFL struggling are very different than AMC.  For example:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/red_wolf_2/185-timelines-delays-why-shipping-only-now-happening-june.html

Those that come after can learn from those mistakes.

Yes, we are definitely on the right track and making huge progress. Now all Ken has to do is write this up and present it to us to see if revisions need to be made. Then we get a final draft and if majority of the shareholders approve then we move forward. The next big announcement will be the 20k Avalon chips that gets delivered. Then Ken can get to work on building machines to bring more hashing power online. If anyone else feels there are other issues to address i believe this is the time to speak up.

It also looks like the prices of shares is starting to rise due to the progress we are making. Let's bring the value back up and finalize this deal as soon as possible. I am looking forward to purchasing more shares as soon as the deal closes.

Like I said earlier, it's not that linear.


But the pie is also getting bigger, from the profits VMC receives when purchasers pay for those shares (and yourself as a shareholder, who now owns shares of something with more capital/assets).

So you now own a lesser % of the pie, but your piece can also be bigger than it was, because the pie grew.

Makes sense?

I agree, thanks Ken. And hopefully we can keep this thread from being a trollbox. I am confident in Ken and AMC/VMC after talking to him on the phone. He understands the importance of maintaining shareholder support and he plans on soon presenting more information about him and his crew. You've got to understand how difficult this has been for him. He's been busy doing so many things for the company, and even I haven't been able to follow all of the thread the past few days. It has been ridiculous, that's why I vote for more moderation in this thread. Maybe once Ken provides a little more information and people gain more trust they will be more willing to allow moderation.

But yeah, all this scam talk, that's really is the beauty of bitcoin. It's a system that allows financial freedom, a truly democratic economic system. Of course there will always be manipulators and scams, but that's the price of freedom. Would you rather be robbed slowly by banks, governments and the federal reserve? Or would you rather be given a chance to decide which investments are legitimate on your own, which exposes yourself to reasonable risks, but doesn't allow others to mooch off, abuse, and devalue the economic system you give power to for the illusion of security?

And yeah, I think having a bajillion shares is great. Just look at Asicminer, they're running at around 4.5btc a share now. They're hardly affordable to a lot of the btc community. When AMC/VMC or whatever it'll be develops more, the large number of shares should make it a more reasonably priced investment for people to make. Which will be beneficial to every shareholder.

Sure, I think we have all come to terms with this.  We just want to be sure that when VMC is ready for Prime Time, a solid business plan has been laid out for current holders and potential holders (who are the ones that will make this thing huge).

We are going to try and keep that from happening, however shareholders will need to consider that they are getting a whole new business plus keeping AMC's business too when they swap their shares for VMC's shares.

This is true and the percentage of ownership should stay the same without any dilution to that percentage. Therefore we should work towards capping out the amount of shares which would keep the pie at the same size. The percentages of ownership of the company and dividends will stay the same without having it being diluted. This is the main point. Hopefully we can work to make this agreement between you and the shareholders. If you can create new shares as you wish then this will lower the percentages of those who are holding shares. They will take away the pieces of the pie and shareholders will not be happy.

the number of shares in a company do not matter the %'s do,

having a large number of shares opens option for higher liquidity and more people to purchase shares since they are at a very affordable price,

what matters most is Ken and of his operations actual legitimacy, granted it makes it a bit easier to figure out the numbers there are benefits to having the shares the way they are,

this seems like its going on the right path so far, ill probably put a few coins in the future after more things are in place

In my opinion the biggest changes that would be best would be Board member seats and voting rights

its like we are seeing a whole different Ken the response is honestly what the thread needed so thank you for that!!

It is not the number of shares, having a large number of shares does not diluted anything.  The only thing it does is make the pie have a lot more smaller pieces.  So, when our shares started trading at .0005 with 40,000,000 shares issued and you bought 1 BTC worth, then that would be 2,000 shares.  If we had started trading with 4,000,000 shares issued at .005 and you bought 1 BTC you would have got 200 shares, same difference.  The only difference is you have 2,000 pieces or you have 200 pieces, and the same percentage of ownership.

~6,530,741 shares have been sold on bitfunder and 500K on BTC-TC. The rest(20M + unsold public shares), go to reinvestment.

Additionally, with loads and loads of shares, it makes it difficult for investors to re-sell shares in the long-term, because unsold shares are unavailable. I'd also like to see some clarification of what the deal is with unsold shares. Right now, 40 million are issued on bitfunder, some are on btc-co. I know this has been gone over before, but how many of those shares are in public hands? Of those 40 million, if say, 20 million are sold, then it should be those 20 million which receive dividends, even if that dividend is a proportion of the overall profits (minus expenses, overheads etc). So, say 300BTC are mined/raised, 100BTC comes out for operating expenses, 100BTC goes to dividends (divided across *sold* shares, not all issued shares), 100BTC to reinvestment/development. Am I missing something? I'm conscious of not wanting to derail a productive discussion.

Hear hear!  Ken, any thoughts?

+1

I agree. Let's try to keep the amount of shares issued at a lower number. Let's follow in the footsteps of the the market leader. If anything this will put us at #2 in the mining company race hopefully in the next few months.

Yes yes yes, this. I get that with the TAT.AM shares, each share is then 'diluted' into 100 shares and that the huge amount of shares for AMC is basically the same as that (thanks for pointing that out VBS), but I still think that up into the millions of shares makes it difficult to derive any value out of the company. I'm new at this though, and VBS seems to be putting forward some decent suggestions, but ASICminer has already shown a tried-and-tested model, why not emulate it?

VMC will have a 7 member board of directors to run the company, this will be setup just like a normal corporation.  Each share will represent ownership in
the company.

I agree.
There is no shame to copy and already proven successful business model.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it should be:

• Recieve money
• Use some profits towards reinvestment(reduce business expense i believe)
• Distribute VMC's allocated % from the remaining profit (further reduce business expense i believe)
• Pay taxes
• Distribute Shareholder's allocated % from the remaining profit

AM shares jumped up by over 0.5 BTC just because some guy here with 9 posts translated some slides from a presentation in chinese to english, no official word was out yet AFAIK.. who knew if he was a native speaker, if the translation was ok.. nobody. bitcoin shares trading does not behave as the fiat one, deal with it.

Yes, that sounds good. My main point was the 50/50 split to make things fair between the shareholders and management/reinvestment. Management/accounting can use the funds appropriately for operations and reinvestment. This sounds like a plan guys. Let's do it!

BitFountain has 236,038 (59%), shareholders have 163,962 (41%). When they need to hold dividends for reinvesting, everyone gets a cut. Fair game.