Analysis and list of top big blocks shills (XT #REKT ignorers) - page 2.

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1013

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on February 09, 2016, 03:22:02 PM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 09, 2016, 03:12:53 PM

Quote from: btcusury on February 09, 2016, 12:07:00 PM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 09, 2016, 09:33:05 AM

The problem according to anarchists (and other collectivists) seems to be that people they disagree with get to vote as well.

Anarchists and other collectivists?? WOW. (See link in sig, if you want to learn anything...)

I'm sorry to tell you that there's nothing there. He's saying stuff every 14 year old have thought about, but in a way you only will hear in a cult or a sect.

If you really want to know something about the world you're living in, and about freedom, then here's a list to get you started:

Plato: The Statesman
Hobbes: Leviathan
Descartes: Meditations
Kant: Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals; Critique of Pure Reason; Critique of Practical Reason; Critique of Judgement; Metaphysics of Morals; Perpetual Peace.
John Locke: On Liberty

The Republic is a horrible authoritarian dystopian fantasy. Plato’s politics always makes me queasy.

Which makes The Statesman all the more interesting. You can see the power of the critical mind. He dissects politics in a way that clears the path for a modern democracy, even if he can't see it himself.

BlindMayorBitcorn

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1116

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 09, 2016, 03:12:53 PM

Quote from: btcusury on February 09, 2016, 12:07:00 PM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 09, 2016, 09:33:05 AM

The problem according to anarchists (and other collectivists) seems to be that people they disagree with get to vote as well.

Anarchists and other collectivists?? WOW. (See link in sig, if you want to learn anything...)

I'm sorry to tell you that there's nothing there. He's saying stuff every 14 year old have thought about, but in a way you only will hear in a cult or a sect.

If you really want to know something about the world you're living in, and about freedom, then here's a list to get you started:

Plato: The Statesman
Hobbes: Leviathan
Descartes: Meditations
Kant: Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals; Critique of Pure Reason; Critique of Practical Reason; Critique of Judgement; Metaphysics of Morals; Perpetual Peace.
John Locke: On Liberty

The Republic is a horrible authoritarian fantasy. Plato’s politics always makes me queasy.

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1013

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: btcusury on February 09, 2016, 12:07:00 PM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 09, 2016, 09:33:05 AM

The problem according to anarchists (and other collectivists) seems to be that people they disagree with get to vote as well.

Anarchists and other collectivists?? WOW. (See link in sig, if you want to learn anything...)

I'm sorry to tell you that there's nothing there. He's saying stuff every 14 year old have thought about, but in a way you only will hear in a cult or a sect.

If you really want to know something about the world you're living in, and about freedom, then here's a list to get you started:

Plato: The Statesman
Hobbes: Leviathan
Descartes: Meditations
Kant: Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals; Critique of Pure Reason; Critique of Practical Reason; Critique of Judgement; Metaphysics of Morals; Perpetual Peace.
John Locke: On Liberty

bargainbin

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: btcusury on February 09, 2016, 12:07:00 PM

I've got some great links that you may wish to use to expand your sources of information and upgrade your understandings. It's completely up to you what you want to believe, however.

Quote from: bargainbin on February 09, 2016, 09:15:08 AM

Quote from: btcusury on February 09, 2016, 09:00:48 AM

... How is the "democratic principle" working out on our planet? ...

On the planet? Slavery nearly abolished, literacy. standard of living, and nearly every other metric: up!
Myself, I'm farting through silk

But you, your life didn't work out too well, I take it? And you blame ...democracy? Because can't possibly be your own fault?

Slavery merely changed labels. Watch: The Story of Your Enslavement

Life for me is now always getting better than it has been before (since being born that is), and it's only through gnosis that such is achievable.

So life's getting better for you, and you can't even post a link to your batshit UToob without fucking it up? Cheesy

Quote

see link in sig

Hahahahahaha Cheesy

"Ah'm 'a gonna drop some gnosis on y'all.
Where did the money go? The answer is obvious my friends. It is the Jews! Covetous Jews, who have taken all our money and hoarded it for themselves. And hidden all the cash in some secret Jew Cave that they built, probably back in the early 60’s…"

btcusury

sr. member

Activity: 433

Merit: 260

I've got some great links that you may wish to use to expand your sources of information and upgrade your understandings. It's completely up to you what you want to believe, however.

Quote from: bargainbin on February 09, 2016, 09:15:08 AM

Quote from: btcusury on February 09, 2016, 09:00:48 AM

... How is the "democratic principle" working out on our planet? ...

On the planet? Slavery nearly abolished, literacy. standard of living, and nearly every other metric: up!
Myself, I'm farting through silk

But you, your life didn't work out too well, I take it? And you blame ...democracy? Because can't possibly be your own fault?

Slavery merely changed labels. Watch: The Story of Your Enslavement

Life for me is now always getting better than it has been before (since being born that is), and it's only through gnosis that such is achievable.

Quote from: Fatman3001 on February 09, 2016, 09:33:05 AM

The problem according to anarchists (and other collectivists) seems to be that people they disagree with get to vote as well.

Anarchists and other collectivists?? WOW. (See link in sig, if you want to learn anything...)

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1013

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: bargainbin on February 09, 2016, 09:15:08 AM

Quote from: btcusury on February 09, 2016, 09:00:48 AM

... How is the "democratic principle" working out on our planet? ...

On the planet? Slavery nearly abolished, literacy. standard of living, and nearly every other metric: up!
Myself, I'm farting through silk

But you, your life didn't work out too well, I take it? And you blame ...democracy? Because can't possibly be your own fault?

The problem according to anarchists (and other collectivists) seems to be that people they disagree with get to vote as well.

bargainbin

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: btcusury on February 09, 2016, 09:00:48 AM

... How is the "democratic principle" working out on our planet? ...

On the planet? Slavery nearly abolished, literacy. standard of living, and nearly every other metric: up!
Myself, I'm farting through silk

But you, your life didn't work out too well, I take it? And you blame ...democracy? Because can't possibly be your own fault?

btcusury

sr. member

Activity: 433

Merit: 260

Quote from: VeritasSapere on February 04, 2016, 11:27:16 AM

I think that you are spot on jonald.

Quote

We either have freedom under Bitcoin or we do not.

Freedom "under" something? Nice thinking.

Quote

It really is quite simple, either we respect the democratic principle or we do not.

Just stop and think about what you are actually advocating, just for a moment... How is the "democratic principle" working out on our planet? Do you really, really, really still want to hold onto the idea that Bitcoin development should be steered by "the economic majority" who are easily manipulated by long-perfected populist tactics (mass-consciousness-influencing propaganda), just like mainstream politics, instead of being steered by technical decisions relating to long-term resilience against attacks by said tactics? Honestly, from my perspective, you really seem to have lost your ability to have an open mind, to absorb new information, to upgrade your understanding... which is why it's so hard to imagine that you're not following an agenda. Are you here to learn and expand, or to promote static ideas that you picked up and embraced because they felt good when you first came across them?

Quote

The only people working against our freedom are the ones telling us that we are not free to fork.

You ARE free to fork (as you already know). What would convince you that hardforking is NOT a good idea?

VeritasSapere

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 03, 2016, 07:50:44 PM

Quote from: Lauda on February 03, 2016, 04:38:19 PM

So you're willing to accept a network split and harm both chains just to get your own way? Quite irrational and egoistical behavior.

LOL.

It's got nothing to do with whether Jonald Fyookball is willing to accept it or not.

A network split is simply the inevitable consequence
of a failure to reach consensus. Either everyone runs
the same code (consensus) or not.

Pretty simple.

Not sure what you're trying to argue actually.

I think that you are spot on jonald. We either have freedom under Bitcoin or we do not. It really is quite simple, either we respect the democratic principle or we do not. The only people working against our freedom are the ones telling us that we are not free to fork.

Lauda

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 2965

Terminated.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on February 04, 2016, 10:49:54 AM

I will stand by those statements, made in a different time. Things are different now, I support classic and unlimited for a two megabyte blocksize.

Five months ago is indeed a 'different time'. I'll leave this here as well.

Quote from: Lauda on February 04, 2016, 07:36:56 AM

Quote

I believe that If non-Core hard fork wins, major holders will sell BTC, driving price into the ground
22741.64188936 Ƀ (81.99%) Believe

Quote

I believe that In the event of a fork, I will sell RBF BlockStream Core Coins and buy Classic Bitcoins
18279.94701557 Ƀ (61.83%) Doubt

Veritas where is the majority that you keep talking about?

VeritasSapere

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: valiz on February 04, 2016, 09:30:32 AM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on October 02, 2015, 01:09:46 PM

I do not think that BIP101 threatens network security, and the treat of a political civil war should not sufficient reason to not support a contentious fork.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on October 23, 2015, 11:06:58 PM

It is not wrong to support a contentious hard fork.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on October 24, 2015, 12:01:37 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on October 23, 2015, 06:55:35 PM

i said that a contentious hard fork threatens to break consensus and could result in multiple blockchains. that is why a contentious hard fork should be avoided.

I do not think that this is a good reason to avoid contentious hard forks.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 17, 2015, 05:58:56 PM

Considering that the problem of tyranny of the majority has been solved in Bitcoin, 75% consensus does seem reasonable to me in order to initiate a contentious hard fork.

I will stand by those statements, made in a different time. Things are different now, I support classic and unlimited for a two megabyte blocksize.

valiz

sr. member

Activity: 471

Merit: 250

BTC trader

Quote from: VeritasSapere on October 02, 2015, 01:09:46 PM

I do not think that BIP101 threatens network security, and the treat of a political civil war should not sufficient reason to not support a contentious fork.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on October 23, 2015, 11:06:58 PM

It is not wrong to support a contentious hard fork.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on October 24, 2015, 12:01:37 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on October 23, 2015, 06:55:35 PM

i said that a contentious hard fork threatens to break consensus and could result in multiple blockchains. that is why a contentious hard fork should be avoided.

I do not think that this is a good reason to avoid contentious hard forks.

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 17, 2015, 05:58:56 PM

Considering that the problem of tyranny of the majority has been solved in Bitcoin, 75% consensus does seem reasonable to me in order to initiate a contentious hard fork.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: Lauda on February 03, 2016, 04:38:19 PM

So you're willing to accept a network split and harm both chains just to get your own way? Quite irrational and egoistical behavior.

LOL.

It's got nothing to do with whether Jonald Fyookball is willing to accept it or not.

A network split is simply the inevitable consequence
of a failure to reach consensus. Either everyone runs
the same code (consensus) or not.

Pretty simple.

Not sure what you're trying to argue actually.

Lauda

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 2965

Terminated.

Quote from: alani123 on February 03, 2016, 06:02:36 PM

If something isn't getting implemented in Bitcoin Core due to lack of consensus, it'd be safe to assume that this something is not good for bitcoin.

Apparently this is not the case for them. If something isn't getting implemented it is because Blockstream is involved. You could argue with them about this, however you would be wasting your free time unlike them.

Quote from: alani123 on February 03, 2016, 06:02:36 PM

I'd argue that there's no other actively developed alternative that could satisfy the demands of the community is the way Core does. The development process is open, proposals are welcome and you can submit improvements. Is there any other cryptocurrency client with more developers?

There isn't.

sAt0sHiFanClub

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on February 03, 2016, 05:44:47 PM

*yawn*

Promises, promises. It's been over a year since Gavin started the Bitcoin civil war, but nothing has come of it besides some good lulz.

*snore*

You are such a ball bag, but you *are* adorable. Wink

alani123

legendary

Activity: 2422

Merit: 1451

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 03, 2016, 04:24:06 PM

Core is tyranny.
Undecided

I'd argue that there's no other actively developed alternative that could satisfy the demands of the community is the way Core does. The development process is open, proposals are welcome and you can submit improvements. Is there any other cryptocurrency client with more developers? Probably not. Bitcoin's development process isn't something that should be divided. If you don't like the currently implemented solutions then you could come up with your own. Gavin's proposals aren't just blocked by the developers characterized as tyrants, but rather by most of the userbase and miners too.

If something isn't getting implemented in Bitcoin Core due to lack of consensus, it'd be safe to assume that this something is not good for bitcoin.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: sAt0sHiFanClub on February 03, 2016, 05:16:43 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on February 03, 2016, 04:35:10 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 03, 2016, 04:24:06 PM

You're conveniently ignoring VertiasSapere's crucial point Angry

Core is tyranny Cry

VertiasSapere's crucial point ("True consensus in the original sense of the word is impossible among larger groups of people") has two fatal errors.

1. It uses the No True Scotsman fallacy.

2. Nakamoto Consensus gives us a way for true consensus to be possible among arbitrarily large groups of people.

The fact neither of you two noticed those problems demonstrates you have no business telling us how to run, much less scale, Bitcoin.

The Nakamoto Consensus:

Quote

The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity. Nodes
work all at once with little coordination. They do not need to be identified, since messages are
not routed to any particular place and only need to be delivered on a best effort basis. Nodes can
leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the proof-of-work chain as proof of what
happened while they were gone. They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of
valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on
them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism

No 90%. No 75% No veto. Just users voting with their feet - or in this case, their CPU. This is the unbearable truth that you need to deal with. If you let the network decide, it *will* decide. It may not be in your favour, or it may. But you dont get to choose. The network does.

*yawn*

Promises, promises. It's been over a year since Gavin started the Bitcoin civil war, but nothing has come of it besides some good lulz.

*snore*

Wake me up when some brave miner makes a block >1MB.

sAt0sHiFanClub

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on February 03, 2016, 04:35:10 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 03, 2016, 04:24:06 PM

You're conveniently ignoring VertiasSapere's crucial point Angry

Core is tyranny Cry

VertiasSapere's crucial point ("True consensus in the original sense of the word is impossible among larger groups of people") has two fatal errors.

1. It uses the No True Scotsman fallacy.

2. Nakamoto Consensus gives us a way for true consensus to be possible among arbitrarily large groups of people.

The fact neither of you two noticed those problems demonstrates you have no business telling us how to run, much less scale, Bitcoin.

The Nakamoto Consensus:

Quote

The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity. Nodes
work all at once with little coordination. They do not need to be identified, since messages are
not routed to any particular place and only need to be delivered on a best effort basis. Nodes can
leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the proof-of-work chain as proof of what
happened while they were gone. They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of
valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on
them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism

No 90%. No 75% No veto. Just users voting with their feet - or in this case, their CPU. This is the unbearable truth that you need to deal with. If you let the network decide, it *will* decide. It may not be in your favour, or it may. But you dont get to choose. The network does.

Carlton Banks

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 3080

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 03, 2016, 04:30:22 PM

Call it tyranny if you want, but I say its the freedom of choice.
People can run whatever code they want to, and no one,
not Gavin, not Satoshi, not Greg Maxwell, not Santa Claus
can force anyone to do anything.

Yeah, jonald, the freedom to do something incredibly self-destructive to your money. You've been all about that with respect ot Bitcoin, for, what is it, 4 failed hard fork attempts? Will you ever giver it a rest?

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4410

Merit: 4766

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 03, 2016, 04:30:22 PM

Quote from: Lauda on February 03, 2016, 04:25:51 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 03, 2016, 04:24:06 PM

You're conveniently ignoring VertiasSapere's crucial point (bolded) above.
By ignoring that fact, and combined with the fact that Core is the currently
used implementation, you've convinced yourself that any change away from
Core is tyranny.
Undecided

This is wrong and a misunderstanding of my views. If Classic had set up a 90 or 95% consensus threshold I would have a lot less arguments against it. Even if we disregard a lot of things in the current situation, I just can't accept a network split. I would never show my support to anyone who wants to do something harmful to the network.

51%, 75%, 90%, 95%,...those are just different shades of consensus.

looking at the charts of the pools, lets take the 75% of peer consensus into an example or two:
there are 14 notable wedges..
it you go clockwise and count 11(over75%) thats over 90% of the hashrate.. great
but
if you count anticlockwise its only 33% of the hashrate.. not so great.

so any consensus by itself is a never ending debate where the goal posts will be moved again
EG miner peer consensus & community peer consensus
EG miner peer consensus & miner hashpower consensus
EG miner hashpower consensus & community peer consensus.

in short, many people that dont want radical change or those that have a one track mind and think they already own the world. will never be happy until they win.
(goes for both camps.. bankers and pricewaterhouse)

Topic: Analysis and list of top big blocks shills (XT #REKT ignorers) - page 2. (Read 46564 times)