Topic: [ANN] [banned mixer] - Bitcoin Mixer | BTC Tumbler | Anonymous | NO LOGS | NO JS (Read 786 times)

The Clearnet version loads quite well, the .Onion is a little slower at first. The site definitely shows a lot of improvement now, great work.

Hello, Sorry for the inconvenience. It was due to restrictive rules. Now you can access.

Clearnet: https://www.[banned mixer]
Tor Mirror: http://[banned mixer]

I am being blocked to access the clearnet on pretty much every IP address I try, even the ones I am very sure have nothing to do with abusing your site. Wow, good job, Cloudflare!


Also, both Tor mirrors, Old and new can not be found

New Tor mirror: http://[banned mixer]

I base my statements on their own information. In case you missed it:

I'll note this only once, but you did this many times before. Throwing around wild assumptions (including, but not limited to) users' motives, makes you look very unprofessional. Let's stick to hard facts.

I like to warn other users about services that may cause them issues (frozen coins, ...) and / or harm Bitcoin.

Thanks for being open-minded and at least considering changes / a separate system!

There are many very legitimate reasons for mixing; mostly centered around privacy. For instance, mixing allows you to get sender privacy. If you send someone BTC without mixing, they can see from whom you got those funds and how you spend the rest of your funds.

there are various reasons why people want to mix their Bitcoin, but the average I know, they mix their Bitcoin just to hide their wealth. maybe the country is very strict toward the people for their wealth so that situation they won't government know what they have.

There is a risk in every action, nothing is perfect. Maybe this imperfection is material for evaluation next, as I know it's not easy to make it clear in what customers want.

Hello and good luck with your service.

But what does this really mean? I understand I giving you coins and you giving me another coins back with a fee of 4%.
But why would somebody want to mix their bitcoins? What if the coins I get is in bad standing? How can you see that you only accepting "clean" coins and not "bad" coins?
The only coins I own is coins I bought myself from an P2P exchange. Should I mix them? And if yes, why? It only giving me less BTC. Why is your BTC better then mine?
I paid for my coins with money I earned myself. How did you get your coins?

I understand that people that have stole BTC don't want to show that this BTC was going to a wallet they can be traced to, but for what other reasons? and how can I be sure I got "clean" BTC?
I am sure its a lot of other reasons, I don't try to be negative, but I don't really understand this service. My feeling is that you buying an imagine that your coins now is clean and fresh and not a real service.
But I'm sure I'm wrong, and that's why I'm asking so I can understand.

Don't misunderstand me, I am all for privacy. I am just asking what do I actually get here and how can I be so sure I get what I pay for and not just an imagine and less BTC?

Is there a real benefit for mixers?
There is not I guess because it's already known that you had this balance before and unless you proof it's gone you would still pay taxes for it.

I think that mixers is only good for other reasons but not the so promoted idea of tax runaway.

What makes you think your government will think Bitcoins coming from a mixer are better than your own Bitcoins?

That's because it's impossible.

I think we have a new ''expert'' here who knows everything about account farming and mixing bitcoin  
That is probably the reason why he is a newbie account registered in forum few months ago and his only activity was in Mixing Services section.
Nobody in the right mind (except you) will defend and trust new mixer that showed up recently...but I understand that being an alt-account is something natural in you.

Let me give you some your own medicine.
If you don't like other people posts about this subject simple don't read them and don't comment on them  

Problem is that there is no universal standard for ''clean'' coins.
Your version of clean, might not be the same as my version of clean, and both of them might not be the same as government version of clean coins.

As long as it's stated clearly enough for any curious user to see, I personally think there's value in having some mixers that "clean" coins while having others that don't. It should be up to the user to choose — sure it's probably 100% best for privacy if the mixer is well known and doesn't "clean" coins, but there are certainly situations where the user 100% needs to not receive his own coins back.

I think we can all agree that it doesn't matter where a Bitcoin was before it was in your wallet, but your employer or government certainly might not understand that yet, and it's unfortunate, but sometimes you have to play in the bounds of the rules in which you live. As long as it's made clear, I think there's no huge need to change that feature of Thormixer.

Your point of view about Bitcoin's fungibility is interesting, I cannot deny that it seems a necessity for you and other users. I will definitely go through your thread to give my opinion when I have time.

You have made me think of an option that fits what you have transmitted to me, thank you for this. And maybe build something without a scoring system as an option for all those users who want to use it. I cannot deny that many other users prefer the scoring system, but I think it would be a good idea to implement what you mention as an option and let each user decide.

Says who? There is no consensus about what "clean" or "dirty" means. There are companies that sell this idea for a profit, and it's in their interest to convince people like you that their services have value. They don't even share their criteria. What if you discover after accepting it that a "clean" coin was used for bad things nobody knew about at the time? You can never be absolutely sure what happened in the past.
The "taint" BS is an attack on Bitcoin's fungibility, which means any Bitcoin user should oppose this as it's a threat to everything Bitcoin stands for. Bitcoin can't exist if some coins are worth less than others.
Start analyzing the history of dollar bills, and you'll find cocaine on almost all of them. Try to refuse them at a bank, and demand clean bills. See what happens.

Ok And that's how this mixer works and all the ones I named above, don't try to confuse users. What bothers you is coins with dark history being removed. I don't think you are interested in mixing bitcoins, I think you are interested in farming post like the previous user. You are also trying to confuse the users and it seems very serious to me that you are trying to make them believe that it is a technical or privacy problem when in reality it is your personal matter.


Now I have to say that it is true that you are lying and it is beginning to be repetitive. You don't know what the source of this mixer's coins is, and you don't know how the Scoring system you mention works, you just have a slight idea and are making assumptions. I think you have felt bad that your list is known to be impartial and that you omit to include other services that you know well and use this same system for years.

You confuse morality with a security or privacy issue. If you don't like something, don't use it, but don't tell others it's a problem just because you don't like it.

By the way I don't see any of the mixers mentioned yet in your list. Do you have time to spam here but I understand that making your list truthful is secondary to you. And I sincerely believe that you are already spamming this thread. Although after seeing your history of comments I see that it is something you do normally.

That's neither the idea of mixing (1), nor is it how this mixer operates (2).

(1) Mixing usually refers to exchanging 'coins' (UTXOs.. let's call them coins) for other coins that are not linked to the ones you put into the mixer. A common use case for this: a certain Bitcoin transaction links a coin to your identity, e.g. by getting paid for a signature campaign. Both the sender (campaign manager) as well as potentially other users (in case that a public spreadsheet exists or people apply publicly with a Bitcoin address) now know this coin belongs to a certain forum user. By mixing this coin, someone can exchange this 'linked' coin for another, (or multiple smaller) unrelated coins of similar total value.

A mixer's job is not to exchange 'dirty' coins for 'clean' coins, at least if we assume that these terms refer to a coin (not) having been used for illegal activities.

(2) This mixer does absolutely not take 'Bitcoin from any source' like you claim, and that's the big issue here. It subjectively discriminates between coins and reserves the right to reject you from mixing. This makes them an unreliable business partner at the very least.

Again, that's not what Thormixer aims to do - in fact, they deny you access to the service if your coins have a 'dark history' - whatever that even means, since there is no definition of this, anywhere.

Then, please do help me make the list more complete. Add those mixers along with a link to the source (ToS, FAQ, anything official) proving that they don't accept all coins equally, as a reply. I will check and add them to OP.

Sorry, strawman. We claim it's bad for privacy, not for security. I hope it's easy to understand why we claim that. If not, read the starting post of [Blacklist] of unreliable, 'taint proclaiming' Bitcoin services / exchanges again.

I am not advertising for a mixer right now, but even if I would, I'd only advertise / promote ones that align with the principles of Bitcoin and my own privacy standards.
There is no particular reason I 'picked out' Thormixer, it just popped up in this board when I visited it again after a while.
You can believe me or not; facts are facts though and in this case, it is a fact that Thormixer's policies don't align with Bitcoin core values.

That is a bold assumption and absolutely incorrect. Actually, it's defamation.

I have never done any paid (positive or negative) review of anything. Instead, so far I did 2 reviews of devices that I paid full price for, out of my own pocket. I also chose not to provide an affiliate code, to make my reviews and recommendations completely unbiased.

Another (much more likely, don't you think?) explanation: people have limited time in a day and as we are not paid by anyone to review all Bitcoin services in existence, we can only focus on one or two things at a time, have a thorough look at them and move on.
Not that I need to prove this to anyone, but just to show that we already criticized other products before:

• Wasabi Wallet: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wasabi-blacklisting-update-open-letter-24-questions-discussion-thread-5405325
• Ledger Nano X: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ledger-nano-x-battery-pandemic-5358741
• Ledger Nano S: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-i-wouldnt-buy-ledger-nano-s-ever-again-5370521
• Ledger Nano S Plus: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ledger-nano-s-plus-5376279
• ColdCard: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57911569
• Lightning Labs / LND: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lightning-labs-lnd-associated-with-wef-5386437

I have to break a lance in favor of these guys since I see your interventions in this thread a bit unfair. They didn't ignore your post, as I see they replied to you and the user n0nce, who refer to the same thread that he owns. So I assume you both have similar personal interests. The scoring system will seem bad to you, but not to other users, since you deliver any bitcoin from any source and in exchange you receive a clean one with which you will not have problems anywhere. I understand that this bothers you, but it is not fooling anyone as you try to make it appear.

Here it is blatantly noticeable that it is you who is trying to confuse users about the service. Users receive clean bitcoins with no Dark history, which is what the users want. That is not aligned with your way of thinking. I understand that this is what bothers you, but it is not something negative in my opinion, quite the opposite.

After reviewing this list and its comments, I have to say it seems very strange to me that this is the first mixer that you include. Missing from that list are many services that uses the same system.

And the most important thing is that I think you tries to make everyone believe that selecting coins is bad for users security and it is not true.

The answers they have given to all users seem correct to me, they have been informative and polite throughout, Except for the comments of user n0nce who blatantly has a strange and intriguing interest in this thread. and I have to say that reading the answer he has given you has been fun and not annoying.

Also, I see that you repeat the same thing over and over again in your post, although they have already answered you regarding how it works. What inclines me to think that you have a hidden interest in harming this particular service.
I see that you are a legendary member, I understand that post farming is something natural in you.

I could not omit the fact that both you and the user n0nce participate in marketing campaigns for other services similar to this one, it can be seen in your signatures. And right now, you have the same advertising active in your firm. I want to say that you are users who are paid to make positive reviews and I suppose also negative ones, that would solve why there is no mixer except this one on your list.

This explains why you ignored my post:
You're attacking Bitcoin's fungibility while trying to use it to make your service look good. That's like misleading users who don't understand the basics of fungibility.

---

---

The way a service responds to criticism tells you a lot about how they operate. In your case, it doesn't look good.

---

---

That's cute. Here's the opinion of Bitcointalk's Administrator:

As I have been able to read on their website, they don't do the mix process on their server, its a plus point, since these data will not be available to any third party.

Well, there are no mixers that don't use Cloudflare or a third-party service like Incapsula, Cloudbric or DDOS-GUARD... In other words, any provider has access to the data that you mention.

Many mixers, "almost all" have been using cloudflare for years, and the others use third-party services such as DDOS-GUARD, which amounts to the same thing, since they perform the same function. In that case there would be no solution for what you propose.

As for Cloudflare, it has strict policies on the privacy of its users. In general, Cloudflare affirms that it respects the privacy of user data and does not sell or share personal information with third parties, and has demonstrated this on many occasions, including in media cases.

However, it is important to note that no online service can guarantee absolute data security, and this applies to cloudflare, Incapsula as well as Cloudbric or DDOS-GUARD. All of them must follow the applicable laws and regulations in the jurisdictions where they operate. In this case, the user is the one who decides what to do and what extra measures to take when using these services, which are all the same in my opinion.

Not sure that you understand the severity of the issue of casually 'temporarily using Cloudflare'.
Not using JavaScript or not keeping logs is pointless, if users' traffic, i.e. plaintext transaction information is literally decrypted and cached on Cloudflare servers. It threatens the whole concept of your service as a mixing site.

Hello again, I already said in the thread that I'm going to use cloudflare temporarily (only difference since launch and it's temporary). The site works perfectly, it doesn't keep logs and it doesn't use JavaScript. You send any bitcoins and it returns clean coins to you

You can use TOR if you prefer: Tor Mirror: http://amwnnncglaw27kfomeiszq4eltwkktnkdzjg6kbtjwb2w3zgysatjead.onion
Or Clearnet: https://www.[banned mixer]

/].