Topic: [ANN] Bitfury ASIC sales in EU and Europe - page 19. (Read 250482 times)

I was correcting his claim that I made a ton of money off it. I didn't, I lost of ton of money.

Guys,

when you buy a stock or a bond, do you use your own currency or a different one?

You're buying a BTC producing unit (a bond plus its interest) using BTCs even if you paid it in USD or EUR, because the same USD or EUR amount you spent on the unit could have been spent buying BTCs directly as much as you invest USD dollars on a bond which should give you more USD dollars than you spent for it in the beginning.

The only one which should be concerned with BTC's value expressed in his own currency is the one which builds the boards and has to pay for them in a currency which is not BTC.

One month ago they were able to manufacture such a board and sell it with a positive margin for 250 EUR, now they're asking, for the same board, 850 EUR, this is due to the fact that they (and those like fractal02) see BTCs as a quick scheme to get USD or EUR and so they're saying, well a board will produce half a coin in its life (a number just for the sake of discussion) and since a BTC will have a value of 1000 EUR one year from now let's ask for a fair share of its possible future value (which is what was said before: offloading the risk to the buyer).

Instead they should realize that difficulty is growing and as such each board will produce less and less BTCs and so its value (expressed in BTC OR USD OR EUR) should decrease or at least remain constant.

If BTC grows I'll be able to buy more units from them, increasing their revenue in their own currency and leaving me with some hope to be able to recoup my investment.

spiccioli

And this is punin's fault? Or yours? What could he have made different? What could you?

1.  I call it how I see it.  You guys are setting prices so they will never ROI in Bitcoins or it will take a very, very long time.   Prices on h-cards have been pumped up by over 232% for relatively the same performance.  The only other people who have tried this scheme are Avalon and Asicminer and they are now failing in the consumer market.    You say ROI in hardware has been made, this is only true in the sense of cash value, however its a negative loss in Bitcoins at the time.

2.   I look at Tytus's place, the view of greed seems to have increased.  Not long ago people were complaining your hardware was expensive, and yes...it still is.  You want to talk about us wishing we have more hardware...well yeah...DUH...we want more hardware...why would I buy 5 starter kits?  I was hoping to populate at least 1 kit.  I am willing to pay a fair price.  Right now paying 1 bitcoin  or 850 euros or $1162 USD tells me that you guys are being more greedy than us and frankly the rest of the asic hardware market.

3.  Excuses are like assholes, everyone has them and they all stink.  This applies to 1, 2, and 3..   I've offered to setup chip packaging services with sales representatives at my company.  Right now we are the #2 Chip packager in the world.   Buzzdave seemed interested, however Tytus said no.  Ignore help, quicker delivery and cost savings at your own peril.


4.    If you guys stay on this trend.  More and more people will start to share my sentiment.  Confidence in bitfury products will decrease.

If you think that's true, then I have an investment for you.

Send me 100 BTC. When the exchange rate doubles, I'll give you 75 BTC. You have a guaranteed 50% profit in fiat. Interested? No? Why not?

Please...cry me a river...

You ROI'ed in flat like a crazy...

Buying hardware with BTC is a non-sense now...buy directly BTC.

1 BTC is still 1 BTC

No, I paid in bitcoins for a device that mines bitcoins. I did not pay in Euros, Dollars, Tulips, or any other form of currency. My ROI, in bitcoins, is a massive loss.

If the value of BTC had not risen, he'd be facing a major loss no matter how you look at it. Same for stuff bought now at the price Tytus is asking.

^ sorry, but this calculation is just totally wrong. You paid an equivalent of 16,000 € if I'm right. And you mined an equivalent of how much since August? 20,000 €?

I spent 246.79 btc on an Aug rig. You're insane if you think I've mined that much since then.

Where is your ROI when you buy BTC and the price drops?

Everyone got ROI running bitfurys, either positive or negative, if everyone broke even is the better question. I have positive ROI, since weeks.

This.

But as long as people keep buying hardware that gives them worse outcome than just keeping the bitcoins, then mining hardware will not be profitable. Except for the ones who sell them ;-)
Mining has to ROI in terms of bitcoin, because you invest to receive bitcoins by buying mining hardware. The alternative is buying bitcoins, hence avoiding risks of hardware failure, rising difficulty, electricity costs and effort setting up and running. Furthermore you have full liquidity.
If you understand this and realize that hardware will ROI only, when btc price rises, then you must accept that this hardware is just stupid to buy. This is why punin's statement, that everyone got ROI is not accurate.

That is a sad story

Exactly and nobody will ever.

All August/September orders will NEVER reach break-even in BTC terms.

AntMiner's units were sold the other day at 4.25 BTC... a comparable unit made with BFSB harware would cost right now 8 BTC and will NEVER (again) reach break-even.

I had the hope to be able to buy around AntMiner's price VAT included, which would have made BFSB units more valuable to me because of their lower power consumption even if you need to babysit them till you reach a more or less stable functioning.

spiccioli

In hindsight you always know what would have been the better option.

Ask Avalon batch #1 owners about their ROI...

I am afraid nobody did reach ROI in btc terms.

And whoever is making those prices, he is hedging against btc/fiat and unloading risks to miners:

when btc was 130 $ - boards did cost a lot of btc. now with btc @ 1000 $, boards cost 850 euros.

punin: I quickly searched for past few pages, but the word "greed" is not on any of them. So, we don't consider you greedy, or at least nobody is calling you that. So relax. I for one thank you for your past efforts and wish you the best in your future endeavors. I think that people are just sad that the ship of instant profit has sailed and will not return anytime soon.

but we also know these board can be sold for much much more. Last week a bitburner fury, which is comparable, sold for 2.5 BTC. Jupiters sell for what, $28,000?

I expected a price around 1 BTC for new bitfury h-boards, I'm even surprised they sell them again and don't use all for themselves. They are not the welfare ministry after all.

I want to thank punin again for his great work, BFSB stuff saved my ass in this ASIC circus.

I personally have not called you greedy, I feel like I should explain my view. Even if you were being greedy it would be perfectly justifiable. You are not nor should be in the business of handing out free money.
I'd keep selling at a price that makes business sense, like I think you are currently doing.
Any insight on if and when the supply of chips could improve ?