[ANN] Bitfury ASIC sales in EU and Europe - page 17.

forum2005

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Quote from: punin on December 07, 2013, 06:51:02 AM

Quote from: fractal02 on December 07, 2013, 06:23:38 AM

Punin you do a great work.
I don't blame you or your team. ("don't shoot the messenger")

But we all know what happen to some hardware/chips seller when they become to greedy or not fair...
Asicminer, Avalon...? no ? anyone...?

And with all the new company all around (HashFast and cointerra are really real...)
What i see clearly know...is : We have funded the Tytus mine.

Now he doesn't need us anymore...and sell the hardware at overpriced price.

Punin, you can sell any other hardware, i follow you and buy from you because you do a really really great work..

But right now, i blaklist Bitfury.

Don't blacklist bitfury, he has nothing to do with this mess. I will try to negotiate something so that my customers will be happy. Perhaps old H-cards can be sold at a discounted price.

I would like to purchase old h-boards v1.2 to full my rig.

Dexter770221

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Quote from: tarmi on December 07, 2013, 08:34:04 AM

nah, no point to flood the market when you have the best solution out there.

better to sell it in small overpriced batches and keep most for yourself.

when competition release cheaper/better solutions, only then you dump it, but you keep the coins you mined, and cash from hardware sales.

Exactly this. So no surprise that customers feels that they were screwed...
And I'm waiting for that moment of dump. I have prototype board that waits for populating but can do it. Oh well, bying chips 2$/chip in 3 months will make me some ROI as I would buy now at 50$

tarmi

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nah, no point to flood the market when you have the best solution out there.

better to sell it in small overpriced batches and keep most for yourself.

when competition release cheaper/better solutions, only then you dump it, but you keep the coins you mined, and cash from hardware sales.

Dexter770221

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Ofcourse I see difference, talking without action is just talking... And that is what angry me most. Just nice talk to make an attention, take bucks into pocket and laugh... Not nice approach don't you think?

KNK

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Quote from: Dexter770221 on December 07, 2013, 07:44:39 AM

He said that he can flood market easily.

I am not happy from the situation (price and availability) either, but you do make difference between 'can' and 'will' do you?
Let's say there are 2k wafers/month - that's 13PH/s per month or 1.5 bilions difficulty increase per month ...

Do you still want that to happen? Be careful what you wish for, as it may happen.

Dexter770221

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Quote from: punin on December 07, 2013, 06:51:02 AM

....Don't blacklist bitfury, he has nothing to do with this mess.

He has. Months ago when he doesn't have any chips yet, he talked that they may have contract on 2k wafers/month, thats 8 million chips per month. He said that he can flood market easily. But it turn out that is simpler to sell at 20 times production costs and make same amount of money than sell 2 times at production but with 2 times more work. So don't be surprised that customers are angry. Something else was promised...

punin

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Quote from: fractal02 on December 07, 2013, 06:23:38 AM

Punin you do a great work.
I don't blame you or your team. ("don't shoot the messenger")

But we all know what happen to some hardware/chips seller when they become to greedy or not fair...
Asicminer, Avalon...? no ? anyone...?

And with all the new company all around (HashFast and cointerra are really real...)
What i see clearly know...is : We have funded the Tytus mine.

Now he doesn't need us anymore...and sell the hardware at overpriced price.

Punin, you can sell any other hardware, i follow you and buy from you because you do a really really great work..

But right now, i blaklist Bitfury.

Don't blacklist bitfury, he has nothing to do with this mess. I will try to negotiate something so that my customers will be happy. Perhaps old H-cards can be sold at a discounted price.

fractal02

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

$Profile photo of fractal02$

Punin you do a great work.
I don't blame you or your team. ("don't shoot the messenger")

But we all know what happen to some hardware/chips seller when they become to greedy or not fair...
Asicminer, Avalon...? no ? anyone...?

And with all the new company all around (HashFast and cointerra are really real...)
What i see clearly know...is : We have funded the Tytus mine.

Now he doesn't need us anymore...and sell the hardware at overpriced price.

Punin, you can sell any other hardware, i follow you and buy from you because you do a really really great work..

But right now, i blaklist Bitfury.

rupy

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Activity: 725

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So now that BTC has halfed, are the H-Cards going to be cheaper? I'm glad I bought BFL during last bubble (2x60GH for 30BTC!) and this bubble (1x600GH for 3.6BTC), that's the advantage of preorders.

xstr8guy

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Glow Stick Dance!

Quote from: allinvain on December 06, 2013, 08:34:16 PM

Why doesn't anyone say what I think is at the back of a lot of people's minds.."why did I buy this ridiculously expensive hardware when I could have bought BTC and actually make a profit!" It was expensive back then and it is expensive now and it will always be expensive because there is always a sucker who is willing to overpay. It's really as simple as that.

The ones who really laugh all the way to the bank are the ASIC producers, so all the little guys please give it a rest with the mining fever and just go out there and either buy btc or start a btc business. It would do a lot more good for the currency than for you to continually fill the pockets of hardware companies.

And to all the fools who think that ROI in BTC terms does not matter cause it "don't pay the bills" please look up opportunity cost.

I don't say that because I've done really well with my hardware purchases. I tried speculating and I sucked at it, lol. Buying low and selling high is WAY harder than it sounds.

I have stacks of ASICs in my former pantry room hashing out bitcoins. Other than my first few miners, I have paid for everything with the bitcoins I've earned. And I still have nearly enough coins in my wallet (at yesterday's BTC prices, lol) to pay off my initial cash/credit investment. But that's not including the cash I lost with my weak attempt at speculating!

allinvain

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Why doesn't anyone say what I think is at the back of a lot of people's minds.."why did I buy this ridiculously expensive hardware when I could have bought BTC and actually make a profit!" It was expensive back then and it is expensive now and it will always be expensive because there is always a sucker who is willing to overpay. It's really as simple as that.

The ones who really laugh all the way to the bank are the ASIC producers, so all the little guys please give it a rest with the mining fever and just go out there and either buy btc or start a btc business. It would do a lot more good for the currency than for you to continually fill the pockets of hardware companies.

And to all the fools who think that ROI in BTC terms does not matter cause it "don't pay the bills" please look up opportunity cost.

tarmi

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Quote from: gingernuts on December 06, 2013, 02:02:28 PM

I don't know where all this hostility/sense of entitlement comes from

I deleted that post, but I will answer to you nevertheless> I simply dont like when they are trying to insult my intelligence.

gingernuts

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I think that BTC price will crash before those new H boards show in shop.

850 euros pricing is ridiculous.

If I were you punin, I would be ashamed to talk about those prices in public.

Have some integrity. it doesnt matter who is setting that price policy - use your own brain.

I don't know where all this hostility/sense of entitlement comes from - if you had the skills to roll your own ASICs would you be giving them away?

BTC hardware may be a seller's market, but it is still a market. If no buyers like the prices, the sellers will drop them. If it just so happens that someone
building a 500TH mine has more buying power than you, you can either winge, or find enough like minded souls for a 750TH group buy...

rupy

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It's like we live in this virtual country with huge inflation.

gingernuts

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I for one appreciate the job you've been doing punin - nobody has to offer to sell us this bespoke technology after all...

Have all the new chips gone onto boards, or do you think you'll have loose chips available again?

xstr8guy

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Glow Stick Dance!

Quote from: jlsminingcorp on December 06, 2013, 01:26:01 PM

Quote from: spiccioli on December 06, 2013, 01:12:14 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on December 06, 2013, 01:07:26 PM

A fun fact! In September, I was ordering H Boards from MBP for ~4BTC each. Now an H Board costs ~1BTC.

For those who think ROI matters only if it's bitcoin for bitcoin, the price has gone DOWN by 3BTC.

HA!

Dude, in September difficulty was way different (and boards still overpriced)... or do you think your mid December board will mine as much as the September one?

spiccioli

Absolutely right.

Difficulty at end of Sept = 148819200 and now = 707408283 --> 4.75x increase
H-card price at end of Sept = ~5.15 BTC (inc VAT) and now ~ 1.63 BTC (inc VAT) --> 3.16x decrease

Conclusion - this pricing is less attractive than September pricing (if we assume all other things are equal - which is a big assumption, so forgive me).

Punin, I think you've been a hero of the ASIC world. Couldn't ask for better service. I'll sit this batch out if you don't mind, but will be watching for the next one.

Nice work. I've been proven wrong. Embarrassed

jlsminingcorp

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Hooray for non-equilibrium thermodynamics!

Quote from: Syke on December 06, 2013, 01:31:15 PM

Quote from: jlsminingcorp on December 06, 2013, 01:26:01 PM

Difficulty at end of Sept = 148819200 and now = 707408283 --> 4.75x increase
H-card price at end of Sept = ~5.15 BTC (inc VAT) and now ~ 1.63 BTC (inc VAT) --> 3.16x decrease

Conclusion - this pricing is less attractive than September pricing (if we assume all other things are equal - which is a big assumption, so forgive me).

Punin, I think you've been a hero of the ASIC world. Couldn't ask for better service. I'll sit this batch out if you don't mind, but will be watching for the next one.

It's even worse than that. These boards won't arrive until the next difficulty adjustment, somewhere north of 850M, roughly a 6x increase. These boards are half as profitable.

Not to mention the big hashrate increases that we will see over the next few weeks/months because of the increased interest in BTC and the possibility of HashFest and ConTerra hardware coming online. I'm not complaining. I'm actually very happy with the fiat return on this hardware. If I'd bought the equivalent in BTC in Aug/Sept I'd have sold at $200-$300 because I'm crap at judging the market and I'd rather have some profit than see it all evaporate during a crash. Having the BTC locked up in hardware and slowly being liberated will probably end up leading to a bigger fiat return for me in the end. You guys may be better at playing the market than me though Wink

.

Syke

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Quote from: jlsminingcorp on December 06, 2013, 01:26:01 PM

Difficulty at end of Sept = 148819200 and now = 707408283 --> 4.75x increase
H-card price at end of Sept = ~5.15 BTC (inc VAT) and now ~ 1.63 BTC (inc VAT) --> 3.16x decrease

Conclusion - this pricing is less attractive than September pricing (if we assume all other things are equal - which is a big assumption, so forgive me).

Punin, I think you've been a hero of the ASIC world. Couldn't ask for better service. I'll sit this batch out if you don't mind, but will be watching for the next one.

It's even worse than that. These boards won't arrive until the next difficulty adjustment, somewhere north of 850M, roughly a 6x increase. These boards are half as profitable.

spiccioli

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nec sine labore

Quote from: xstr8guy on December 06, 2013, 01:24:23 PM

Quote from: rammy2k2 on December 06, 2013, 01:22:25 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on December 06, 2013, 12:57:31 PM

Quick calculations says each board will ROI in 60 days. Quit whining.

the 850 EUR one ? can u please show me your math ? i would love u to be correct, maybe im wrong

I can't show my math since I didn't actually do any. Grin

Nice that you admit it at least.

If you see "my" math you'll see break-even at july next year and it could be april or never with more or less the same outcome.

spiccioli

jlsminingcorp

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Hooray for non-equilibrium thermodynamics!

Quote from: spiccioli on December 06, 2013, 01:12:14 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on December 06, 2013, 01:07:26 PM

A fun fact! In September, I was ordering H Boards from MBP for ~4BTC each. Now an H Board costs ~1BTC.

For those who think ROI matters only if it's bitcoin for bitcoin, the price has gone DOWN by 3BTC.

HA!

Dude, in September difficulty was way different (and boards still overpriced)... or do you think your mid December board will mine as much as the September one?

spiccioli

Absolutely right.

Difficulty at end of Sept = 148819200 and now = 707408283 --> 4.75x increase
H-card price at end of Sept = ~5.15 BTC (inc VAT) and now ~ 1.63 BTC (inc VAT) --> 3.16x decrease

Conclusion - this pricing is less attractive than September pricing (if we assume all other things are equal - which is a big assumption, so forgive me).

Punin, I think you've been a hero of the ASIC world. Couldn't ask for better service. I'll sit this batch out if you don't mind, but will be watching for the next one.

Topic: [ANN] Bitfury ASIC sales in EU and Europe - page 17. (Read 250482 times)