[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 55.

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: cosmicone on February 04, 2013, 01:58:34 PM

So the rate of BTC lost to delinquents is actually more like 25.71%. 2065.20 of 8081.83 in total loans has not been paid back. So it is a significant rate of non-payment, or $41,300(USD) give or take.

Now if that 2065 includes the interest as well, then yes you would be more like 78.3% .. which in itself is not impressive.

No, the repayment rate is 78.3%, as the time passes the defaults will add up but so will the payments.

We are working towards improvement, the early Prosper repayment rate (first two years) was bellow 60%.

smracer

donator

Activity: 1057

Merit: 1021

There needs to be a better way to weed out scammers on BTCJAM. It seems every other listing is a scam and many of the loans appear to be from the same people.

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cosmicone on February 01, 2013, 04:26:28 PM

Quote from: Charles Bass on February 01, 2013, 04:07:10 PM

And Number1....
The Problem is that bitcoin value gets higher, its more expensiv and harder to Pay loans back..

Poor excuse! But I hear what you're saying. There is always a risk that any currency will go up or down when compared to your local currency.

Rule of thumb pay back your loans! As it stands right now, if anyone pays me back at all, I'll remove that money from BTCJam.. too much risk, and there is no reward for the lenders. I think the site owners need to move in and do a better job, otherwise there will be no one left to loan, and the site will just collapse.

Another stupid person who doesn't understand P2P loans... Please google it and then you will not be dumb. I will always be on btcjam I yet to be scammed cause you have to accept responsibility for the loans you make. Obviously you didn't read the loans just went by verification score. That is very bad, and now your mad so you think the site sucks, that is a poor excuse for your stupidity. I would teach you how to pick good loans but then why would I do that, so 10btcs I can help you pick loans and take a way a lot of risk by looking at the actual loan and not there scores.

THIS GOES FOR ANYONE, IF YOU NEED HELP PICKING LOANS I CAN HELP YOU, FOR 10btcs you get 30mins skype call and you can learn about the way a profesional picks loans and never gets scammed!

cosmicone

member

Activity: 105

Merit: 10

Quote from: Tulkas on February 03, 2013, 04:21:46 PM

Quote from: cosmicone on February 03, 2013, 03:27:22 PM

Quote from: Tulkas on February 03, 2013, 01:43:35 PM

This is the current data on the site:

Loans: 511
Total payments: 2390
Payments late: 540
Fully repaid loans: 272

Repayment rate: 77.4%

So what is the value in BTC for the fully repaid loans vs. the late payments?

I'm glad you asked, the repayment rate in BTC is higher.

This is good because it demonstrates exactly why the service is so useful. Trusted members tend to receive more money, and they pay back.

Loans: BTC 8081.83
Total payments: BTC 9527.39
Payments late: BTC 2065.20
Fully repaid loans: 272

Repayment rate: 78.32%

So the rate of BTC lost to delinquents is actually more like 25.71%. 2065.20 of 8081.83 in total loans has not been paid back. So it is a significant rate of non-payment, or $41,300(USD) give or take.

Now if that 2065 includes the interest as well, then yes you would be more like 78.3% .. which in itself is not impressive.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: gweedo on February 02, 2013, 10:18:15 PM

First off currently I invested in a loan, that is below 70% so obviously that will not show up in the pending amount. Second why should I show you how much I make, I don't want you to get upset when you see the number. But I can say it a lot more than 1 coin...

So... 2 coins?

Quote from: gweedo on February 03, 2013, 03:35:18 AM

Yep. 2 coins. A lot more than 1. I'm very jealous! Grin

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: cosmicone on February 03, 2013, 03:27:22 PM

Quote from: Tulkas on February 03, 2013, 01:43:35 PM

This is the current data on the site:

Loans: 511
Total payments: 2390
Payments late: 540
Fully repaid loans: 272

Repayment rate: 77.4%

So what is the value in BTC for the fully repaid loans vs. the late payments?

I'm glad you asked, the repayment rate in BTC is higher.

This is good because it demonstrates exactly why the service is so useful. Trusted members tend to receive more money, and they pay back.

Loans: BTC 8081.83
Total payments: BTC 9527.39
Payments late: BTC 2065.20
Fully repaid loans: 272

Repayment rate: 78.32%

cosmicone

member

Activity: 105

Merit: 10

Quote from: Tulkas on February 03, 2013, 01:43:35 PM

Quote from: Charles Bass on February 03, 2013, 07:53:17 AM

Since the BTC value ist raising, its whoreable on BTCJam.
The most loans are default, so its very bad for the reputation of BTCJam.
if you doesnt work against this nobody will lend on btcjam, because there are no consequences if you scam...

best wishes the angry Chuck

This is the current data on the site:

Loans: 511
Total payments: 2390
Payments late: 540
Fully repaid loans: 272

Repayment rate: 77.4%

23% seems quite high, and also showing the number of payments is somewhat irrelevant, it's the value that matters.
Also, it shows from your numbers that 53% of the loans are currently not paid in full... which doesn't mean they won't be, they could be open, they could be awaiting funding, it's impossible to tell from the numbers above.

I think that knowing how many loans and the values would make more sense, so for example:

User1 could do three 1BTC 'trust' loans and pay them off. So we're 3+

Then they open 1 12BTC loan now that they have 100% rep, and default. So now we're 9-

Even though the average would be 75% of loans repaid on time, the system as a whole is in the tank.

So what is the value in BTC for the fully repaid loans vs. the late payments?

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: John (John K.) on February 02, 2013, 10:27:02 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: gweedo on February 01, 2013, 09:19:02 PM

ZOMG SHOOP!

I agree with what your saying, there is a skill in picking out the non-scammers. the total I have been scammed for is <0.5BTC (those loans were mainly "for the lulz"). I had around 80BTC invested in the site at one point. The only thing I don't like about BTCJam is the lack of comeback against scammers as they will not release the docs, which is why I've decided to stop using it.

Thank goodness I haven't started investing yet.

John,

The lender cannot have the documents, this is illegal, BTCJAM can't handle they to you and even if you decide to lend on the forums, every time you ask for documents in order to lend money to U.S., U.K or Russian (and many other) citizens you are breaking the law!

It's illegal in all the above countries (plus 140 more) to conduct this kind of non anonymous, non arbitrated lending activities. After all, what you intend to do with the documents?? Go after the borrowers and do what? It's illegal to lend anything in this fashion, let alone contact the person asking for payments.

The purpose of the identity verification is to create an ecosystem of trusted peers, this is already happening. We are also working to get a collection procedure in place, this is being made in a legal fashion, backed by international laws.

Do not do it by yourself, you cannot go after the borrower because lending money directly to another person in this fashion is illegal to begin with, our system is a safer and legal way to do that.

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: Charles Bass on February 03, 2013, 07:53:17 AM

Since the BTC value ist raising, its whoreable on BTCJam.
The most loans are default, so its very bad for the reputation of BTCJam.
if you doesnt work against this nobody will lend on btcjam, because there are no consequences if you scam...

best wishes the angry Chuck

This is the current data on the site:

Loans: 511
Total payments: 2390
Payments late: 540
Fully repaid loans: 272

Repayment rate: 77.4%

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: BurtW on February 02, 2013, 10:40:28 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I would consider using BTCJam again if it was possible for potential lenders to submit a request for the users docs which would need to be accepted by the lendee. I also think it needs a PM system.

I agree. I have been lending BTC for a long time and have only had a few bad loans in all of my time lending.

I have my own methods of weeding out the scammers but since I cannot see the docs I cannot apply them all.

BTCJam would be a lot more useful if lenders could take a look at the documents before making a loan.

Perhaps "large" lenders with "high" reputation could get access to all docs when the loan is "large" - where all the terms in quotes would need to be well defined.

As it stands I only do very small loans on BTCJam mostly just to try out the system and still do most of my lending through the forum and its PM system where I can request and get all docs before I make a loan.

I've sent you a PM.

Charles Bass

member

Activity: 118

Merit: 10

Owner of Empire Hotels

Since the BTC value ist raising, its whoreable on BTCJam.
The most loans are default, so its very bad for the reputation of BTCJam.
if you doesnt work against this nobody will lend on btcjam, because there are no consequences if you scam...

best wishes the angry Chuck

ThaddeusB

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: gweedo on February 03, 2013, 12:10:52 AM

Quote from: ThaddeusB on February 03, 2013, 12:04:41 AM

I couldn't care less about how much (i.e. little) you've made on BTCJam, but if you want to brag about how awesome you are, you should be willing to back it up. Obviously you won't because you can't, but hey keep stroking yourself if you like. Fact is you are nothing special - just one of a million internet "geniuses" who are all talk and posturing.

It was obviously a big deal to you since you decided to post about how I posted a picture of what my account pass due and account pending investments and you were all up in arms about that I didn't show the account investment balance. So you do care LOL it is ok your just mad.

Nope, as usual your "logic" is highly flawed. Reality is, that I just don't like a bullshitter or a better-than-thou troll and you sir are grade A in both categories. I will continue to call out your nonsense as long as you feel the need to attact anyone and everyone who has a negative experience with BTCJam.

P.S. I wouldn't even be surprised to learn that A) you have invested a total of 0 coins ever; or B) you actually have lost funds and took the screen shot from your borrowed funds list.

ThaddeusB

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: gweedo on February 02, 2013, 10:18:15 PM

Quote from: ThaddeusB on February 02, 2013, 10:09:26 PM

LOL. You have nothing currently invested and cut off the amount paid back (probably because you invested like 1 coin ever), yet you spend endless time here promoting the site, talking about how awesome you are at lending, and calling everyone else a fool?! Thanks for proving what everyone already knew - you are a douchebag full of nothing but hot air.

First off currently I invested in a loan, that is below 70% so obviously that will not show up in the pending amount. Second why should I show you how much I make, I don't want you to get upset when you see the number. But I can say it a lot more than 1 coin, probably more than you have seen in your wallet. You can call me whatever you want, I think it is a great site, and I think some people here, are jealous of how others can use the site and make good money. Also just a third off topic comment for you, even if I did show you how much I made off the site, you be jealous, but there are like 3 people that I met off that site and they keep coming back and they pay very well for the loan of my money, so yeah I don't even need to use the site, I could live off those 3 lendees.

Amazing how other people want to keep my books for me, maybe I can hire ThaddeusB to be my book keeper I may need one soon.

Also just another aside, I am currently working on site and soon will be launching that so yeah, my time is kinda taken up.

I couldn't care less about how much (i.e. little) you've made on BTCJam, but if you want to brag about how awesome you are, you should be willing to back it up. Obviously you won't because you can't, but hey keep stroking yourself if you like. Fact is you are nothing special - just one of a million internet "geniuses" who are all talk and posturing.

Monster Tent

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Tulkas on February 01, 2013, 10:18:18 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Another thing is it's extremely easy to game the rating system on BTCJam. Simply lend 1 satoshi to every loan on the site and you'll have instant high rep.

This is no longer possible.

We improved the rating and reputation system.

Of course some users will try to game the system, but as you noticed the transparency about the transactions allowed you to spot the trick and avoid investing on suspicious ratings, even before the improvement.

All the "bogus" ratings were removed.

It might improve things if you built judge.me into the system so that there is a way to go after people. The documents supplied by the lendees could be handed to a judge on the case.

John (John K.)

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1227

Away on an extended break

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: gweedo on February 01, 2013, 09:19:02 PM

ZOMG SHOOP!

I agree with what your saying, there is a skill in picking out the non-scammers. the total I have been scammed for is <0.5BTC (those loans were mainly "for the lulz"). I had around 80BTC invested in the site at one point. The only thing I don't like about BTCJam is the lack of comeback against scammers as they will not release the docs, which is why I've decided to stop using it.

Thank goodness I haven't started investing yet.

ThaddeusB

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: gweedo on February 01, 2013, 09:19:02 PM

Quote from: cosmicone on February 01, 2013, 09:04:40 PM

Quote from: gweedo on February 01, 2013, 05:40:22 PM

Another stupid person who doesn't understand P2P loans... Please google it and then you will not be dumb. I will always be on btcjam I yet to be scammed cause you have to accept responsibility for the loans you make. Obviously you didn't read the loans just went by verification score. That is very bad, and now your mad so you think the site sucks, that is a poor excuse for your stupidity. I would teach you how to pick good loans but then why would I do that, so 10btcs I can help you pick loans and take a way a lot of risk by looking at the actual loan and not there scores.

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I never mentioned anything about the site sucking. I said that if the people requesting loans are only there to scam and default, there will be no lenders, and the site will collapse.

I read every loan, keeping in mind that any text could be complete bullshit. I only loaned on reasonable sounding ones with people that have positive feedback and previous loans. I only lent what was I willing to lose.

Post up your BTCJam loans, let's see your track record.

I have lost nothing, I have never been scammed on btcjam. You did say the site sucks, cause you can't pick non-scammers from scammers. In every p2p lending site, people will be scammed, people are scammed here on this forum, so to say that people that requesting to just scam, will drive away lenders is so dumb. Cause people like me know where the scammers are and how to avoid them you honestly didn't. As btcjam's owner said they do 77% payback that is a good number right now, you picked the scammers your dumb. Sorry, that is life, I was willing to help you for 10btcs.

LOL. You have nothing currently invested and cut the amount paid back from your picture (probably because you invested like 1 coin ever), yet you spend endless time here promoting the site, talking about how awesome you are at lending, and calling everyone else a fool?! Thanks for proving what everyone already knew - you are a douchebag full of nothing but hot air.

BurtW

legendary

Activity: 2646

Merit: 1137

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I would consider using BTCJam again if it was possible for potential lenders to submit a request for the users docs which would need to be accepted by the lendee. I also think it needs a PM system.

I agree. I have been lending BTC for a long time and have only had a few bad loans in all of my time lending.

I have my own methods of weeding out the scammers but since I cannot see the docs I cannot apply them all.

BTCJam would be a lot more useful if lenders could take a look at the documents before making a loan.

Perhaps "large" lenders with "high" reputation could get access to all docs when the loan is "large" - where all the terms in quotes would need to be well defined.

As it stands I only do very small loans on BTCJam mostly just to try out the system and still do most of my lending through the forum and its PM system where I can request and get all docs before I make a loan.

cosmicone

member

Activity: 105

Merit: 10

Quote from: gweedo on February 01, 2013, 09:19:02 PM

I have lost nothing, I have never been scammed on btcjam. You did say the site sucks, cause you can't pick non-scammers from scammers. In every p2p lending site, people will be scammed, people are scammed here on this forum, so to say that people that requesting to just scam, will drive away lenders is so dumb. Cause people like me know where the scammers are and how to avoid them you honestly didn't. As btcjam's owner said they do 77% payback that is a good number right now, you picked the scammers your dumb. Sorry, that is life, I was willing to help you for 10btcs.

Don't get your panties in a knot. I only do BTC for shits and giggles... waste time while working.

PS: It's you're dumb.. not your dumb. Ironic eh?

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Charles Bass on January 26, 2013, 03:33:46 PM

Quote from: Charles Bass on January 21, 2013, 05:55:23 AM

I searched for the email (i saved everyone), but i diddnt get payed for https://btcjam.com/listings/1205!
The other laon from grandpa43 (https://btcjam.com/listings/1241) i get payed..

Pls can other user verify this problem!

@Tulkas i am waiting for my identity verification since days (maybe a week)

greets Chuck

Where is my Money for https://btcjam.com/listings/1205 ?

Pls find this Money And add it to my Account !

Thx

Quote

I have a small side business selling btc at a marked up rate to not so tech savvy people.

Yea give this con artist his money LMAO

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Another thing is it's extremely easy to game the rating system on BTCJam. Simply lend 1 satoshi to every loan on the site and you'll have instant high rep.

This is no longer possible.

We improved the rating and reputation system.

Of course some users will try to game the system, but as you noticed the transparency about the transactions allowed you to spot the trick and avoid investing on suspicious ratings, even before the improvement.

All the "bogus" ratings were removed.

Topic: [ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 55. (Read 204975 times)