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Topic: [ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 76. (Read 204975 times)

sr. member
Activity: 352
Merit: 250
Founder, BTCJAM
Even some very suspicious listings got funded, from users with no reputation, little verified info, unbelievable rates and multiple active loans, some with the same title!

Probably the same user making an investor account to fund his own investment and gain trust.  Unfortunately I decided to not use this service as it is too open to abuse.  Sad

We've changed the rules for user ratings, now anonymous users can't rate others.
Also, all investments/loans repaid by the users are at display on the user profile.


sr. member
Activity: 328
Merit: 252
Just a quick suggestion for your forum-linking script... it would be nice if every so often your script could go through the forum profiles and check for scammer tags
https://btcjam.com/listings/133 thebitbabe has a scammer tag, and it would be nice to have the forum authentication removed on top of his credibility dropping for a late payment.

sr. member
Activity: 352
Merit: 250
Founder, BTCJAM
Tulkas,

Are you doing something to people/sites who used to use the old BTCJAM (the mining generator)? 

I didn't understand what you meant.
We were not aware of any previous btcjam site.
sr. member
Activity: 352
Merit: 250
Founder, BTCJAM
how can my funder rate me for the loan I repaid

https://btcjam.com/listings/98


He can rate you as long as he is verified, only verified users can rate others, to avoid the sockfarm problem.

4 verifications?

how come i cant find a link to his profile sega01

The user names on investment and comments are now clickable. Yes, BTCJam score greater than 4.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
Tulkas,

Are you doing something to people/sites who used to use the old BTCJAM (the mining generator)? 
420
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
how can my funder rate me for the loan I repaid

https://btcjam.com/listings/98


He can rate you as long as he is verified, only verified users can rate others, to avoid the sockfarm problem.

4 verifications?

how come i cant find a link to his profile sega01
sr. member
Activity: 352
Merit: 250
Founder, BTCJAM
how can my funder rate me for the loan I repaid

https://btcjam.com/listings/98


He can rate you as long as he is verified, only verified users can rate others, to avoid the sockfarm problem.
420
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
how can my funder rate me for the loan I repaid

https://btcjam.com/listings/98
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice
the site looks great but 80% of the loans look dodgy as hell.
If someone is trying to borrow a few BTC and are happy to wait a week or two you kind of need to ask yourself why they dont just use there own money to buy BTC.. and I'm sure there is 1000 reasons.. 'just abit short this week' blah blah...but if someone needs to borrow like $50 worth of BTC chances are they are not going to have any money next week either......

Also the issue of risk / return... but I guess if you guys are happy to e.g risk 10btc to get back 10.1btc then its all good.... =)
sr. member
Activity: 328
Merit: 252
I've gathered some site statistics:

25 repaid loans
42 active loans with no late payments
16 loans with late payments

Of this 16 late loans, 9 are from 3 users.
So we have 19% late loans and 12% late users.

[cut]

We are confident that the site is a great platform for loans but they are loans after all, so precautions must be taken by the investors.

Thanks Tulkas, this is exactly the kind of information I love to see! Smiley

In fact, the statistics on active loans/on-time and late payments is quite intriguing, and I must say paints a much less terrible situation. indeed better than I would have expected.

It would be great to have that kind of site-global stats automatically calculated and live on the site in a future release.

Thanks for your work. Hopefully those numbers do improve because on one point I wholeheartedly agree with you, you are indeed building a great platform.

PS: I do not blame the site for any losses I incur, that should be clear.
sr. member
Activity: 352
Merit: 250
Founder, BTCJAM
Thanks for the input guys!

The premisse is that users want to build a reputable profile and have access to loans at low rates.

I think we have a solution for the fake investors problem, we can make only the the repaid amount to other verified investors count as reputation, so we don't prevent non verified investors from using the site.
 
sr. member
Activity: 295
Merit: 250
Even some very suspicious listings got funded, from users with no reputation, little verified info, unbelievable rates and multiple active loans, some with the same title!

Probably the same user making an investor account to fund his own investment and gain trust.  Unfortunately I decided to not use this service as it is too open to abuse.  Sad

Yeah.  If I were a scammer... this would be the first thing I would do.

More integration with Bitcoin-OTC would be pretty neat, as I think this has ways to check against that kind of thing.

(It would also be great to be able to feed back into OTC, but not sure if this is possible.)
hero member
Activity: 633
Merit: 500
Even some very suspicious listings got funded, from users with no reputation, little verified info, unbelievable rates and multiple active loans, some with the same title!

Probably the same user making an investor account to fund his own investment and gain trust.  Unfortunately I decided to not use this service as it is too open to abuse.  Sad

Yeah.  If I were a scammer... this would be the first thing I would do.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000

I've gathered some site statistics:

25 repaid loans
42 active loans with no late payments
16 loans with late payments

Of this 16 late loans, 9 are from 3 users.
So we have 19% late loans and 12% late users.


Nice to hear that the total number is lower than my experience 

Quote
We don't like those numbers either, although they are much lower than the initial default rate of similar sites (proper had a 40% default rate at the beginning).

Even some very suspicious listings got funded, from users with no reputation, little verified info, unbelievable rates and multiple active loans, some with the same title!

I know that (I'm one of the guy that has financed one of the loan with no verified info - but on that I know well that is a risk). For the multiple active loan is not uncommon for a startup to ask for 2-3 small loans instead of a big one (I'm thinking on the not repaid loan of casfow for example) because is faster to start to obtain some money on  3 loans of 20BTC (asap I reach 14BTC I can start the loan) than on 1 of 60 (where I need 42BTC to start it).
Incredible rates is again not so strange (or almost is not here in Italy): I receive a flyer of a mall yesterday that promise a rate of 0% for installment payments over 10 months. Reading the small prints on a 100€ buy you'll pay near 50€ of extra costs for loan opening and so on, is it a 50% rate of interest, so make a loan here at 30% is 20% saving.

Quote
As much as we don't want to interfere on loans and let the users build their reputation and investors invest where they want we are going to a much more strict listing policy, protect the investors is our top priority right now.

We are also implementing some nice features that will greatly help investors (group loans is one). We aim to achieve 98% repayment rate, I cant disclose all the measures now, but they will be available soon.

We are confident that the site is a great platform for loans but they are loans after all, so precautions must be taken by the investors.

Nice to hear that from you.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
@Tulkas, you could probably mitigate the "fake investor" issue by requiring a minimum deposit from someone willing to lend.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
I have to add my voice to those showing doubt on the platform.

I do find the idea very good, and the execution (site-wise) well thought out and built.


But after all is said and done, this site is about exactly one thing, loans. A lender will only invest his money if there is some form of guarantee that he will make money, not lose them. I hope your US contact manages to find a good solution quickly, because the website is in its current state nothing more than a good idea that does not really work.

Many investors are loosing rather than gaining, and this is already alienating many of us, from the smaller to the larger, to simply cut our losses.

I hope the site manages to overcome this hurdle, which I appreciate is by no means an easy feat... but at the going rate of failure to repay, we would need to start demanding interest of 30, 40% minimum just to cover for our losses, let alone turn a profit... this would doubtlessly kill the platform outright.


As far as private loans go, I agree there is really no point in implementing such a feature. The great strength of BTCJam is its social nature and the transparency that can be built into it. Private loans are probably best managed... well, in private amongst all interested parties.



If it becomes successful you will get entire forums dedicated to scamming bitcoins from it.
hero member
Activity: 633
Merit: 500
Just to add - I love the site, the beginning is always going to be the trickiest bit as people build reputation. More people using it and more feedback weighing in will go a long way to making the experience for lenders much more approachable.

In the meantime, I'm just lending less to people with less proven history. I'll wait to see what happens on those first few defaulters, but was clearly my choice to make the loan.

I agree.  Although I've never used the site, I have looked around on Silk Road.  There, certain sellers have large ratings of previous transactions.  How is this possible when they can simply all take the money and run?  They want future business.  It will be the same here in time.  Various debtors will have large ratings and they will attract loans at low interest rates, as they should.  Building credit is always hard at first, whether it is with your bank or with Bitcoins.
legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1050
We just found your site last week and we want to encourage you that the concept is solid and the need for this service in the Bitcoin community is obvious. Fantastic!
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
Even some very suspicious listings got funded, from users with no reputation, little verified info, unbelievable rates and multiple active loans, some with the same title!

Probably the same user making an investor account to fund his own investment and gain trust.  Unfortunately I decided to not use this service as it is too open to abuse.  Sad
sr. member
Activity: 295
Merit: 250
Just to add - I love the site, the beginning is always going to be the trickiest bit as people build reputation. More people using it and more feedback weighing in will go a long way to making the experience for lenders much more approachable.

In the meantime, I'm just lending less to people with less proven history. I'll wait to see what happens on those first few defaulters, but was clearly my choice to make the loan.
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