[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 74.

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: smracer on October 26, 2012, 11:10:39 AM

What happens when people start defaulting on these BTCJam loans? I have seen quite a few on the site from known scammers on this site. These loans will not be paid back.

Will a collection agency even accept a BTC debt for collections? A collection agency will not bring a lawsuit for any amount under $5,000 US anyway so I don't understand how funds will be collected.

Will the owners of BTCJam call the police and tell them that someone stole your bitcoins? What will the police do about it?

About calling the police, etc, the collector agencies can and will pursue lower values when we have volume. Also, people will pay the lower values as their credit report will be hurt.

About the defaults:

I would also like to note that the service today is far from perfect, but we believe it represents a major improvement on the rater manual procedures used on this forum, good payers are building good reputation profiles already.

One good thing that is already happening is the scammers are being casted out too, we had two cases of scammers trying to get other accounts verified with no luck.

Takes time to build an ecosystem, but it is being built.

We have several good payers and the majority of loans are being paid on time, that being said we think perhaps we should add more moderation on users and listings instead of just let the "system" regulate itself.

tgmarks

donator

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Quote from: Liquid on October 26, 2012, 02:58:31 AM

still waiting on being paid back Roll Eyes

+1

smracer

donator

Activity: 1057

Merit: 1021

What happens when people start defaulting on these BTCJam loans? I have seen quite a few on the site from known scammers on this site. These loans will not be paid back.

Will a collection agency even accept a BTC debt for collections? A collection agency will not bring a lawsuit for any amount under $5,000 US anyway so I don't understand how funds will be collected.

Will the owners of BTCJam call the police and tell them that someone stole your bitcoins? What will the police do about it?

Digigami

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

yep.. me too

Liquid

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 500

Crypto Somnium

still waiting on being paid back Roll Eyes

creativex

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Same. I just blow right by the hastily constructed single sentence listings. I don't think it's asking too much to expect a well thought out explanation of what you intend to do with borrowed funds.

Shermo

sr. member

Activity: 272

Merit: 250

Quote from: ercolinux on October 26, 2012, 01:50:11 AM

Glad to help if possible.
Another little suggestion: there's no way to contact you/other administrator of the site. Maybe put a contact page on the site.
I've seen a suspicius activity of a member for example: he ask for a loan, then when I write a comment on the high risk of that kind of loan he had removed the request and now he ask for another one for the same amount but a totally different scope. It's really fishy. I sent you a PM (don't want to pubblicy accuse someone without evidences)

I think I know which person you're talking about, what I don't understand is why some of these people are so stupid as to rush these things and not come up with a well written, spell checked plan of what they "plan" to do. I pretty much ignore anything that looks rushed, half the stuff on there at the moment is either scammy or just not investable from my POV.

ercolinux

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Tulkas on October 25, 2012, 09:46:05 PM

Because level 5 is harder to obtain without committing identity theft.
Thanks for the suggestion ercolinux.

Glad to help if possible.
Another little suggestion: there's no way to contact you/other administrator of the site. Maybe put a contact page on the site.
I've seen a suspicius activity of a member for example: he ask for a loan, then when I write a comment on the high risk of that kind of loan he had removed the request and now he ask for another one for the same amount but a totally different scope. It's really fishy. I sent you a PM (don't want to pubblicy accuse someone without evidences)

Tulkas

sr. member

Activity: 352

Merit: 250

Founder, BTCJAM

Quote from: ercolinux on October 25, 2012, 10:58:51 AM

Quote from: squall1066 on October 25, 2012, 10:36:51 AM

Later when you have debt collection in place, Are you able to use these first instances of non payers? Or do you have to start from when you are legally able to chase?

EDIT - Also why do lenders have to have more than 4 rating to rate a user? I have exactly 4 and I cant rate anyone, Not even if they default to warn other lenders away from possible scammers!!!

It's a measure to avoid sockpuppet but it don't works IMHO.

A suggestion to Tulkas: is possible to make user rate positively only if they have more the 4 point and rate negative user with overdue payments?

Because level 5 is harder to obtain without committing identity theft.
Thanks for the suggestion ercolinux.

boonies4u

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1000

Quote from: creativex on October 25, 2012, 01:45:17 PM

I know, it's far from perfect, but it would be a small step in the right direction. It seems a bit silly that lenders cannot rate borrowers until they've submitted a whole lot of info despite the fact that they're the ones taking all the risk. The alternative is lots of sock puppets popping up and diluting the rating system which is even worse. Too bad people can't or won't just behave.

Talking about that, anyone notice the guy asking for rate-for-rates?

squall1066

copper member

Activity: 2310

Merit: 1032

Something else I cant get my head around, The site says

Quote

Never post, ask for personal information or ask to be contacted outside the site, this will endanger your privacy and its against our policy on publishing content.

But you have added the "verified bitcoin talk username"

These conflict IMO. Though may be different usernames, I don't see the point until you actively debt collect, So whats the point?

creativex

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

I know, it's far from perfect, but it would be a small step in the right direction. It seems a bit silly that lenders cannot rate borrowers until they've submitted a whole lot of info despite the fact that they're the ones taking all the risk. The alternative is lots of sock puppets popping up and diluting the rating system which is even worse. Too bad people can't or won't just behave.

ercolinux

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

Quote from: creativex on October 25, 2012, 01:07:31 PM

One account per IP seems reasonable. Some will use TOR, but then it indicates if TOR has been used, so a potential lender can take that into consideration.

Filters based on IP doesn't works: VPN are really cheap to put on, in many country IP are not fixed (my IP change near ever other week, but if I reset the router 3-4 times almost any time my provider reset the ADSL line and change my IP), there are users that connect to internet via 3G/4G internet keys or using smartphone as router, or using internet cafè and so on. I can easily connect from at least 7 different IP address not counting internet cafè and VPNs

creativex

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

How long does it usually take to verify submitted paperwork? It says 24hrs, is there a large backlog?

One thing more, I noted the watch listing function, but I don't see any way to recall a watch list. Am I just being blind?

creativex

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

One account per IP seems reasonable. Some will use TOR, but then it indicates if TOR has been used, so a potential lender can take that into consideration.

squall1066

copper member

Activity: 2310

Merit: 1032

Quote from: ercolinux on October 25, 2012, 10:58:51 AM

Quote from: squall1066 on October 25, 2012, 10:36:51 AM

Later when you have debt collection in place, Are you able to use these first instances of non payers? Or do you have to start from when you are legally able to chase?

EDIT - Also why do lenders have to have more than 4 rating to rate a user? I have exactly 4 and I cant rate anyone, Not even if they default to warn other lenders away from possible scammers!!!

It's a measure to avoid sockpuppet but it don't works IMHO.

A suggestion to Tulkas: is possible to make user rate positively only if they have more the 4 point and rate negative user with overdue payments?

Good point, But does not solve the "lending" problem, When I lend, I cannot rate a user, Many lenders do not have verification, As, like me, Are just lenders, and are not looking to gain rep as they never plan on asking for a loan. And for this reason, I have no need to verify myself further, As I am the one risking my money for possible gain. In any case there will always be a work around, It's not easy figuring out a good system at this point. even the most verified people can run off with BTC.

Maybe one account per I.P address? but then some users like TOR, So I don't know.

ercolinux

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

Quote from: squall1066 on October 25, 2012, 10:36:51 AM

Later when you have debt collection in place, Are you able to use these first instances of non payers? Or do you have to start from when you are legally able to chase?

EDIT - Also why do lenders have to have more than 4 rating to rate a user? I have exactly 4 and I cant rate anyone, Not even if they default to warn other lenders away from possible scammers!!!

It's a measure to avoid sockpuppet but it don't works IMHO.

A suggestion to Tulkas: is possible to make user rate positively only if they have more the 4 point and rate negative user with overdue payments?

squall1066

copper member

Activity: 2310

Merit: 1032

Later when you have debt collection in place, Are you able to use these first instances of non payers? Or do you have to start from when you are legally able to chase?

EDIT - Also why do lenders have to have more than 4 rating to rate a user? I have exactly 4 and I cant rate anyone, Not even if they default to warn other lenders away from possible scammers!!!

CaptChadd

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1005

Product Marketing & Promotion / Software Developer

Everytime I try to upload my Address verification scan or Credit scan I get this error:

"Please review the problems below:"

.medium

I am uploading 1200 DPI scans, tired in jpeg and png format.

Can you help please?

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Tulkas on October 24, 2012, 06:27:52 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on October 24, 2012, 06:08:29 PM

I haven't read through this entire thread, so forgive me if these questions have already been answered, but:
- If someone misses payments and/or defaults on their loan, do you report such activities to the proper credit agencies?
- Is there any reason it wouldn't be legal to sue those who do not repay? Anything that does not make these loans legally binding?

Hello, yes this questions were answered already but i will sum it up for you:

The idea behind the service is to create an ecosystem where trust is built and scammers got tagged and are left aside.
The verification process purpose is to prevent users from creating multiple high scored accounts.

That being said we are working already with collection/credit agencies but this process takes time given the peculiar nature of bitcoin. We do not have a working agreement right now apart from credit verification (not reporting).

Thanks for the answers.

Topic: [ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 74. (Read 204975 times)