Topic: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 17. (Read 92462 times)

I am sure some coordinators are operated by state actors, and didn't government also created Tor network and people still use it for all kind of reasons.
Government is probably spying on people who use Tor, they spy on people who use centralized exchanges, and they spy just about anything they can, it's what they do best.
Some people would also question bitcointalk forum and how they have funds for keeping everything in order for years, but think about how much was Bitcoin price 10 years ago and how much was the price on top.

That's exactly what an undercover state actor would say, though, right?
Besides; providing more info about themselves, how they are funded and whatnot, could dramatically increase their chance of getting busted like Tornado.

You presented CoinJoin as an alternative; how do you know the people running the coordinator aren't state actors? In case they make less money than ChipMixer and don't have the funds to finance a signature campaign, it could just mean it's an even better undercover operation, that is simply 'better disguised', no?
Especially if we have a look; one CoinJoin company is using blockchain analysis companies to sniff into its users' activities and potentially freezing their funds already. Doesn't it seem much more likely that these guys could be connected / pressured by / used by a government; instead of ChipMixer?

What I'm trying to say is: the whole argument / discussion is pointless. Waste of everyone's time, really. You can't prove or disprove any of this.

No; this is just a combination of the 'harsh tone' I mentioned earlier and dkbit98's unique character. We love him just the way he is, though!

No need to apologize. On Bitcointalk everyone can share their opinion!
It's just.. Correlation doesn't prove causation and there can be alternative, equally as likely, explanations for all of the points you've raised. Which in my eyes, makes your 'theory' merely a relatively unfounded accusation.

I agree, 100%. The forum format also makes it infinitely better suited for such discussions, because you have enough space and formatting options to embed links, sources, images and quotes in an easy to read post.

That's the one I was talking about. More than $40m then.

Seriously, why don't you just open a thread here? This is the place where ChipMixer originates, so you're going to get some satisfactory responses directly from those who advertise it. Twitter is shitposting platform. The fact that you can't write more than 280 characters in a single reply says a lot.

We should also not talk via DM. The issue you're raising fits public talk.

Off the top of my head I can think of the Ronin bridge hackers ($73m) and the Binance hackers ($80m) although I'm sure there are more. The information you are basing your points on is incorrect.

Sorry all, didn't mean to spark a heated discussion - I'll take the discourse back to Twitter. Happy to answer questions there or via DM.

Sorry but I didn't start this silly crusade against anyone, you are the one making wild theories and I just wrote my honest reply.
Try to be objective when you are writing something on twitter, and don't just accuse others for being emotional when you are prime example of that.
If I want to be honest looking at your previous posts on twitter, you are attacking just about anyone who comes up in headlines, so you are projecting this on everyone else.

Can anything in theory be a secret government project?
Sure it can, maybe government even participated in creation of Bitcoin in one way or another, but it's more likely they are involved with all the shitcoin projects as a preparation for their CBDC crap.
Scam Bankman was one of the biggest donator to democratic party and Joe Biden campaign, maybe you should think about that more when you are looking for connection with governments and money laundering.

Ethereum shitcoin is already OFAC compliant and they already have 70% of their blocks OFAC compliant, so you can't compare that crap with Bitcoin, and it doesn't really matter what Tornado is doing.

I'm afraid that the $40m hack must have been the biggest theft with ChipMixer involved. There have been more hacks with smaller damages, and those got caught. Seems to me rather user's fault than the service's trustworthiness.

Or just create a new thread in here, wherein you describe your concerns about ChipMixer being a honeypot. I recently had a concern too: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61348127

If ChipMixer is indeed a honeypot, then the data they gather wouldn't be used to catch small or even medium-sized criminals. It's about getting a few big fish - the robberies that are in the hundreds of millions. If every $20m or $40m hack was pursued using privileged data, people would catch on pretty fast and the honeypot would become worthless.

May I request that future questions or concerns about the theory be directed to me via DM either here or on Twitter? While I have thought this through carefully and likely have explanations for all of your concerns or rebuttals, I'd prefer not to turn this thread into a back and forth about ChipMixer being a honeypot, because ultimately it's just a theory and it probably shouldn't be discussed at length in their official business thread.

Have you read about stolen bitcoins in the past few years? There was even a $40m worth of bitcoin theft with Binance (about 4,000 BTC), and AFAIK they used this service to obfuscate themselves. They aren't caught yet. Maybe those that do get caught, don't use it properly.

Come on... Sorry, but this is nonsense. What mob have I organized? When have I advocated for ChipMixer to be "closed down"? You are just making stuff up. It makes no sense too, because as per my theory, the government wouldn't shut ChipMixer down anyway.


Depends, how many of those advertising bitcoins are left in the budget?

For real though, DW makes a good point in that you can still gain privacy from the outside world if you're a small-time mixer user not engaging in serious crime. Just remember that someone sees everything and you don't know who that someone is. The signs all point to one answer. (Again, no offence. Either way, you've made a tool that's useful to many.)

Fair question. I'm not entirely sure. Maybe something like "we are not related to or employed by any world government, our extremely high start-up capital came from XYZ source, we made X in donations this year, we think we have never been investigated or indicted or admonished by LE because of XYZ..." Doesn't really matter, it's just a theory anyway.


I find this confusing and unnecessarily aggressive. I'm not sure how or what I lost is relevant - we're discussing a mixer; let's keep it on-topic if possible. FWIW, I wish from the bottom of my heart that I got much less attention, because at times it can be overwhelming. For example, when I initially posted the ChipMixer thread, I didn't at all expect it to blow up across Twitter, be picked up by news outlets, or for me to be contacted by a lawyer looking for expert witnesses for a separate bitcoin mixer legal case.

I can't help but notice that you, too, are being paid by ChipMixer. This doesn't mean your points are useless, but you could at least tone down the ad hominems & emotionally defensive behaviour. It comes across as paid shill-y, even though it may well not be.


The Tornado Cash contract itself is under OFAC sanctions. Any sort of interaction with the mixer is now a legal risk. Similar measures could have been put in place for known ChipMixer deposits given their similar user profile (not condoning this, just pointing it out), but the government really doesn't seem to care, which was one of my points. The contract itself can't be doxed.


The way these things normally work is, to keep the honeypot going, they make up a plausible excuse for how they found the criminal based on a link they found later, thus they don't have to disclose the ace up their sleeve.

To be 100% clear, this theory (very explicitly labelled as such for the avoidance of doubt) is solely my personal opinion, posted on my personal Twitter account, and I don't mean to offend ChipMixer, their users, or their advertisers. I do not expect ChipMixer to prove anything (you can't prove a negative anyway). To me (again, in my personal opinion), the story stacks up perfectly, and I've tried to explain my reasoning in the thread as clearly as I can, but it remains an opinion and you are all obviously welcome to have your own. Sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused to anyone in the thread.

And yet you organize mob to close this one because other was closed down? Similar to invading another country to 'end all wars'.

No. Promote it. Write good articles. Praise it.

You didn't seem to make any correlation between these two statements, but ironically they're both in the same post.  Short of exposing his true identity I don't know what ChipMixer (the individual) can do to prove to you he's not conducting a NSA sting.  It's likely the reason that Tornado was crucified is because the developers were publicly known, and ChipMixer skates along because they are not.

It's certainly not provable that ChipMixer is or isn't US.gov honeypot, and the operator's anonymity can be applied as evidence in either argument.  What is known is that criminals use ChipMixer.  If they were tracked by the government due to their use of ChipMixer, that evidence would have been used to prosecute them.  Since ChipMixer has been around for 5 years, and I don't know of any incident where use of ChipMixer has been used to prosecute anyone, I can claim that as evidence they are not a honeypot.

Maybe the government is playing the long con.  Maybe they're careful to not expose their "source" by eliminating data they've obtained as evidence.  Or, maybe ChipMixer is run by an anonymous individual who's been extremely careful to not expose himself to arrest.

Nonetheless, the use of a centralized service will not provide anyone with anonymity.  For those of us who use mixing services for privacy, ChipMixer has been a safe and reliable provider regardless of who's behind it.

You are not asking anyone, but you are obviously seeking attention with all your posts, that is probably some mental issues you have after losing big part of your wealth investing in shitcoin scam.
Sorry about that, and I hope you find help you need, but you won't find that help on twitter  

I am not defending or attacking anyone, and comparing bitcointalk with your twitter natural habitat is really silly.
You can think whatever you want, and I can also think that you are a government agent or circus clown, that doesn't mean I am right.
Financial interest would be if I invested 30% to 40% of my life savings in ChipMixer... like some people did in some ''other things''...

Nobody ever asked you to delete anything dude, do as you like.... and  yes, ChimpMixer agents are soon coming to nock on your door, get ready...
Sorry you didn't get all the attention you wanted  

I see; well, of course your explanation is just one of multiple possible reasons why Tornado was busted and ChipMixer wasn't.

Was this comment made on Twitter? Because whenever I check Twitter, I am remembered how much more civil, helpful and knowledgeable the Bitcoin community on Bitcointalk actually is. The forum format and reputation system obviously helps to find and differentiate good content from poor content. The tone can be harsh sometimes, but sometimes the truth is harsh, so there's that.

Also, not everybody is the same. Some people may 'mob' you (thick skin! ), others won't - this has nothing to do with Default Trust.

What could they say to make you think otherwise, though? It's neither possible to prove for anyone here that you or I are or are not state actors, either, right?

I'm confused; how is that incompatible with what I said? Laws aren't always right. I was merely pointing out that you can go to jail for running a mixer. I am pro-privacy and I support the existence of mixers, especially zero knowledge mixers such as Tornado Cash. The service you tout as a human right actually doing exactly the opposite might be a bitter pill to swallow, which is why I understand your reluctance to fully appreciate my position.


Sorry, I think you misunderstood this point. I wasn't stating that the mixer is bad because major criminals use it. I was drawing a comparison between Tornado Cash and ChipMixer, pointing out that the same echelon of major criminals use both, yet only one is being crucified.


I'd much prefer if we looked at arguments atomically and on a meritocratic basis instead of relying on history or expertise. I've been around a while, but that doesn't matter. I was just sharing a theory that I personally found pretty compelling. It is also an opinion, not a fact. I'm not claiming to be an authority on the subject (I'm not one) nor am I asking anyone to believe me. Just wanted to open the matter up for discussion and hear others' thoughts on it. It looks like that goal has been achieved, as every major post I've seen about ChipMixer (like the FTX hacker-related one) has a bunch of comments either posting about the theory or linking to it.

(With all due respect, I was warned that by posting this thread I would be, and I quote, "mobbed by the DT circle jerk," so that combined with your obvious financial interest in defending ChipMixer leave me unsurprised by this collective response.)

ChipMixer's response has been weak as well, which further reinforces my belief in the theory, not that there was much doubt in my mind. (As a side note: while I think privacy is more important than mass surveillance, which prompted my post, I consider myself a friend of the US government, and I am happy to stop talking about ChipMixer if requested. I will not delete the original thread but I'll stop working on new ones related to mixers. You have my email.)

Doesn't look like anyone reasonable would invest his life savings into stupid shitcoin, and then trying to teach everyone about Bitcoin privacy.
I don't care what kind a deal you had with him, but I obviously need to check history of anyone who claims something about Bitcion and(or Chipmixer.
If Craig Wright say something I always have to go back to his Faketoshi history, and I don't find his words relevant, it's the same thing for this Fat guy.
So it has everything to do with Chipmixer because he was the one who mentioned it, I was not talking about Terra because I never used that crap.
Sure, he can have his own opinion, but it's not only his anymore when he shares that in public on twitter.

I've had a couple of dealings with FatManTerra, he seems like a reasonable guy.  Obviously I don't agree with his claim about ChipMixer but as others have already said, there's no way to prove or disprove, so we'll have to leave it to each person to decide for themselves what their risk threshold is if they chose to use ChipMixer.  Having said that, I did respond to his thread on Twitter, against my better judgement.

As for his shitcoining fails, that's not relevant to this discussion.  I'm not trying to defend the guy, but he is entitled to his opinions.

Can you at least quote them here?

Wikipedia got $162 million donations in 2021.
Donations are viable business model if your service is valuable.

Year 2017. About 10 mBTC each at BTC around $1000.

And in 2017 only most powerful governments in world would even have tens of bitcoins?

Did anyone check his twitter posts, other than his ChipMixer speculation theory?
He joined Twitter in May 2022, he has a lot of followers and he is exposing how crypto scams work, but how can you do that while investing in shit like Terrra.
In his own words, he invested heavily in the Terra ecosystem and lost 30% to 40% of his life savings in Terra collapse  
Now this guy is trying to educate us about ChipMixer, and he probably never used it in his life to see how it works.

Slight correction: You'll get a 0.008 and 0.004 BTC chip.