Doesnt look like Ethereum classic...looks more like Ethereum unfinished
Topic: [ANN] [ETC] Ethereum Classic: Immutable Smart Contracts - page 362. (Read 821107 times)
More i read this forum, the more division i see creeping in.
Doesnt look like Ethereum classic...looks more like Ethereum unfinished
Doesnt look like Ethereum classic...looks more like Ethereum unfinished
Here is my humble opinion 
I would love to see a new kind of PoW limited to CPU only so that everyone (no exception) could contribute to the growth of ETC.
- PoS enrich the big accounts only....
- PoW will become unsustainable...
I would love to see a new kind of PoW limited to CPU only so that everyone (no exception) could contribute to the growth of ETC.
CPU mining usually means botnets and it is rarely if ever feasible for the little guy.
Here is my humble opinion
I would love to see a new kind of "PoW" limited to CPU only, where everyone (no exception) could donate the spare processing power of their computers and equally contribute to the growth of ETC.
This new type of "PoW" would truly make ETC a fair & decentralized blockchain... No more monster miners ranking all the fees.
- PoS enrich the big accounts only....
- PoW will become unsustainable...
I would love to see a new kind of "PoW" limited to CPU only, where everyone (no exception) could donate the spare processing power of their computers and equally contribute to the growth of ETC.
This new type of "PoW" would truly make ETC a fair & decentralized blockchain... No more monster miners ranking all the fees.
@iCEBREAKER if we consider a hybrid algo we can attract more people and be more inclusive.
A hybrid algo is a compromise which may alienate as many (or more) people than it attracts.
And it's scope creep, especially if we don't use an existing off-the-shelf schema.
Let's not (yet) go in search of wheels to reinvent before we even know what ETH is doing (and when).
Hybrids are not new. I started my crypto interests mining Novacoin which is a hybrid which seems to work well. You can mine it and you can stake it. It is a very attractive feature and provides stability to the coin with the staking factor and it is attractive to those of us who want to mine and earn that way. So this wouldn't be anything new.
Of course the devil is in the details, but it clearly has been done and works. I personally find this would be a very nice option to have the benefits of both worlds.
I must add i am not up for 100% PoS and here is why...
I have no capital and I am old. I get the use of electricity for 3 month and then the electric company send me a bill (90 day invoicing).
So I have 90 days to mine and trade the 12 coins I work with and make enough money to pay the power bill.
The "profit"! When there is some, I spend it on food. At the end of the quarter, we cash out and start again from zero. My husband is a disabled ex-Soldier and I am his carer. We cannot live on our allowance, hence we mine. We don't have extra coin to stake.
I have no capital and I am old. I get the use of electricity for 3 month and then the electric company send me a bill (90 day invoicing).
So I have 90 days to mine and trade the 12 coins I work with and make enough money to pay the power bill.
The "profit"! When there is some, I spend it on food. At the end of the quarter, we cash out and start again from zero. My husband is a disabled ex-Soldier and I am his carer. We cannot live on our allowance, hence we mine. We don't have extra coin to stake.
I agree that the POS only coins really benefit the wealthy the most. The POS element can be beneficial in providing stability to a coin or currency if you can save it and stake it. Which is why I like the hybrid idea. I used to mine Novacoin which is a hybrid and is exactly why I started mining that coin. You can earn it, and you can save it and still earn something.
Paula, your not alone, many of us are facing financial challenges and mining provides me the needed extra income to provide things I would not otherwise be able to afford on my pay check. So the mining element is important to me as well. I am not rich so I can't live off of the earnings from what I have staked so this would only work for me if I can continue to earn something by mining.
I must add i am not up for 100% PoS and here is why...
I have no capital and I am old. I get the use of electricity for 3 month and then the electric company send me a bill (90 day invoicing).
So I have 90 days to mine and trade the 12 coins I work with and make enough money to pay the power bill.
The "profit"! When there is some, I spend it on food. At the end of the quarter, we cash out and start again from zero. My husband is a disabled ex-Soldier and I am his carer. We cannot live on our allowance, hence we mine. We don't have extra coin to stake.
I have no capital and I am old. I get the use of electricity for 3 month and then the electric company send me a bill (90 day invoicing).
So I have 90 days to mine and trade the 12 coins I work with and make enough money to pay the power bill.
The "profit"! When there is some, I spend it on food. At the end of the quarter, we cash out and start again from zero. My husband is a disabled ex-Soldier and I am his carer. We cannot live on our allowance, hence we mine. We don't have extra coin to stake.
@iCEBREAKER if we consider a hybrid algo we can attract more people and be more inclusive.
A hybrid algo is a compromise which may alienate as many (or more) people than it attracts.
And it's scope creep, especially if we don't use an existing off-the-shelf schema.
Let's not (yet) go in search of wheels to reinvent before we even know what ETH is doing (and when).
Oh its happening as we speak, We have 3 devs to my understanding. Wheels are turning before the difficulty climbs too high. I have reddit and slack open. If you read back a few pages you will be able to read what is happening and join the debate.
Here are some of my questions. Nothing is set in stone but work continues on a number of fronts giving the community options.
In PoS, you have a stake in the network (a bond), that you use to validate blocks. Instead of "mining", the validators basically make "bets" on which block will be included in the chain next. It's like, or at least heavily influenced by futurarchy theory.
So, the validators have an economic incentive, like miners, to come to consensus. Failure to join the other bonded validators (i.e. if you bet on the wrong chain, or are trying to attack the network), you will lose all, or some portion, of your bond.
Q:Only 250 validators in eth and you would have to pay to be a validator, that is feudalism in my eyes.
A:I think you'd be correct if this was actually a pay to play. But, in this case, you don't actually pay anything, unless you go against the consensus. If you decide to liquidate your stake, you have a certain amount of time (60 days IIRC), before your stake is available to move.
Q;If you had a PoS/PoW hybrid you could satisfy both parties?
A:That is a goal for the live network before a switch to full PoS is made. So we'll soon know.
Q:What about a wallet where you could stake some of your ETC. Every wallet would have the facility so anyone could hold a stake. Dividends could be paid out from the transaction fees depending on your stake & amount of node %uptime.
A:Yes. I fully expect a significant percentage of stakes to be large pools. Which will be great. Participating in a reputable staking pool, could be like holding bonds.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out!
@iCEBREAKER if we consider a hybrid algo we can attract more people and be more inclusive.
A hybrid algo is a compromise which may alienate as many (or more) people than it attracts.
And it's scope creep, especially if we don't use an existing off-the-shelf schema.
Let's not (yet) go in search of wheels to reinvent before we even know what ETH is doing (and when).
I was mining on Nanopool since launch and since my estimates are more and more below whattomine's calculator I started to point one rig to supernova for comparison and made a interesting discovery:
Nanopool:
Nano pays me for the time I was mining about 0.133832 ETC
I've had a second rig, exactly same setup and same hashrate point at supernova while I was mining at nano:
So supernova pays me about 0.25 ETC within exactly the same time..
THIS IS 50% LESS ON NANO
!!!!
I've pointed my rigs now to a few other pools and will compare too, something is clearly wrong here !!!
PS: Yes, I waited a bit to get everything mature on Nanopool as well - nothing changed !
And yes, I started at exactly the same time, so difficulty was the same as well !
Nanopool:
Nano pays me for the time I was mining about 0.133832 ETC
I've had a second rig, exactly same setup and same hashrate point at supernova while I was mining at nano:
So supernova pays me about 0.25 ETC within exactly the same time..
THIS IS 50% LESS ON NANO
!!!!I've pointed my rigs now to a few other pools and will compare too, something is clearly wrong here !!!
PS: Yes, I waited a bit to get everything mature on Nanopool as well - nothing changed !
And yes, I started at exactly the same time, so difficulty was the same as well !
Very interesting. I have some hashpower on nano. Let us know how you get on.
Looks like i will be switching to supranove if that is the case. I mine groestlcoin at supranova without issue.
Not too keen on having all my eggs in one basket
Remember supranova are giving a 10% bonus ATM and diff has come down a little.
Yeah i thought the bonus is already active, i've asked ocminer if this is the case but I think it is not yet already
Ok, some things to be aware of here. On Suprnova your going to get paid once you hit whatever threshold you set. On nano your going to get paid every 6 hours and the payment periods are 1am, 7am, 1pm, 7pm at least on my time zone anyway. So you should look at your payments tab on Nano to see if you mined through any of the payment windows. Then add up the balance unpaid with the balance paid to compare with what you see on Suprnova. That should give you a glimpse of the payout differences.
No payments for more than 24 hrs... 
@Mrpumperitis a mixer would be nice in etc
@DeCrypterManiac I am going to switch in the morning after nano payout. I will post my experiences.
My take on this is a no win for ETC. If it wins then the Ethereum chain will fall and lose a large chunk of its following. Goodluck for a short term pop @DeCrypterManiac I am going to switch in the morning after nano payout. I will post my experiences.
@Mrpumperitis a mixer would be nice in etc
@DeCrypterManiac I am going to switch in the morning after nano payout. I will post my experiences.
@DeCrypterManiac I am going to switch in the morning after nano payout. I will post my experiences.
I was mining on Nanopool since launch and since my estimates are more and more below whattomine's calculator I started to point one rig to supernova for comparison and made a interesting discovery:
Nanopool:
Nano pays me for the time I was mining about 0.133832 ETC
I've had a second rig, exactly same setup and same hashrate point at supernova while I was mining at nano:
So supernova pays me about 0.25 ETC within exactly the same time..
THIS IS 50% LESS ON NANO!!!!
I've pointed my rigs now to a few other pools and will compare too, something is clearly wrong here !!!
PS: Yes, I waited a bit to get everything mature on Nanopool as well - nothing changed !
And yes, I started at exactly the same time, so difficulty was the same as well !
Nanopool:
Nano pays me for the time I was mining about 0.133832 ETC
I've had a second rig, exactly same setup and same hashrate point at supernova while I was mining at nano:
So supernova pays me about 0.25 ETC within exactly the same time..
THIS IS 50% LESS ON NANO
!!!!I've pointed my rigs now to a few other pools and will compare too, something is clearly wrong here !!!
PS: Yes, I waited a bit to get everything mature on Nanopool as well - nothing changed !
And yes, I started at exactly the same time, so difficulty was the same as well !
Very interesting. I have some hashpower on nano. Let us know how you get on.
Looks like i will be switching to supranove if that is the case. I mine groestlcoin at supranova without issue.
Not too keen on having all my eggs in one basket
Remember supranova are giving a 10% bonus ATM and diff has come down a little.
Yeah i thought the bonus is already active, i've asked ocminer if this is the case but I think it is not yet already
Nope, bonus is not active yet, but soon. I'll post a countdown on the pool tomorrow
@ iCEBREAKER Have you considered relaxation? Moreover; your argument would be at most critiqued and at least listened to if you toned down the language. Would you let your Grandmother, Mother or your children read this thread? If not, just think of all those potential crypto customers you will be losing.
However, if you tone down the vocals and contribute to the debate, you will be made welcome.
However, if you tone down the vocals and contribute to the debate, you will be made welcome.
Already contributed to the debate. But thanks for the nanny finger waggling.
I think we're all adults (or at least teens) here. Perhaps there's a browser plug-in you may use to remove or alter the words that hurt your widdle fweeelings.
Back on topic, are you the one who thinks PoW wastes energy, causing Manbearpig to send hurricanes after orphans and kittens?
You can relax about that, because mining is concentrated near surplus (ie free) energy, and the sun controls the climate.
I live in Cornwall UK and we have wind farms and solar. We make a surplice of electricity here but we have to still pay the same as you. EU Law.
When UK leaves we can give this power away at low cost to attract new business. I am also close to GCHQ Bude. This is the place Snowden exposed as NSA/GCHQ listening station between US and EUROPE. Not surprising as Marconi sent his first transatlantic radio transmission from here, also the first transatlantic cable is here (1901) for telegraph and USD/GBP trading pairs. And one to India. So fantastic ping times around the world.
Future looks good, the future looks classic
Are you using
http://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3000/suprnova.5/50
or
stratum+tcp://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3332
A stratum will be more effective. Nano is not stratum?
http://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3000/suprnova.5/50
or
stratum+tcp://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3332
A stratum will be more effective. Nano is not stratum?
I used stratum on both with latest genoil miner:
on nano i was using
stratum+tcp://etc-eu1.nanopool.org:19999
now i use
stratum+tcp://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3333
supernova was a bit harder to set-up, my miner crashed with the same arguments like used on nano, i had to use "-SP 2" argument and it was running fine
Are you using
http://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3000/suprnova.5/50
or
stratum+tcp://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3332
A stratum will be more effective. Nano is not stratum?
@iCEBREAKER if we consider a hybrid algo we can attract more people and be more inclusive. Also eth miners may want to join us after their PoS at Casper as there will be plenty of low cost GPUs going around. ETH people will sell their GPUs and someone will buy them and use them here or feathercoin or whatever coin is bangin at the time, Not long now!
http://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3000/suprnova.5/50
or
stratum+tcp://etc-eu.suprnova.cc:3332
A stratum will be more effective. Nano is not stratum?
@iCEBREAKER if we consider a hybrid algo we can attract more people and be more inclusive. Also eth miners may want to join us after their PoS at Casper as there will be plenty of low cost GPUs going around. ETH people will sell their GPUs and someone will buy them and use them here or feathercoin or whatever coin is bangin at the time, Not long now!
I was mining on Nanopool since launch and since my estimates are more and more below whattomine's calculator I started to point one rig to supernova for comparison and made a interesting discovery:
Nanopool:
Nano pays me for the time I was mining about 0.133832 ETC
I've had a second rig, exactly same setup and same hashrate point at supernova while I was mining at nano:
So supernova pays me about 0.25 ETC within exactly the same time..
THIS IS 50% LESS ON NANO!!!!
I've pointed my rigs now to a few other pools and will compare too, something is clearly wrong here !!!
PS: Yes, I waited a bit to get everything mature on Nanopool as well - nothing changed !
And yes, I started at exactly the same time, so difficulty was the same as well !
Nanopool:
Nano pays me for the time I was mining about 0.133832 ETC
I've had a second rig, exactly same setup and same hashrate point at supernova while I was mining at nano:
So supernova pays me about 0.25 ETC within exactly the same time..
THIS IS 50% LESS ON NANO
!!!!I've pointed my rigs now to a few other pools and will compare too, something is clearly wrong here !!!
PS: Yes, I waited a bit to get everything mature on Nanopool as well - nothing changed !
And yes, I started at exactly the same time, so difficulty was the same as well !
Very interesting. I have some hashpower on nano. Let us know how you get on.
Looks like i will be switching to supranove if that is the case. I mine groestlcoin at supranova without issue.
Not too keen on having all my eggs in one basket
Remember supranova are giving a 10% bonus ATM and diff has come down a little.
Yeah i thought the bonus is already active, i've asked ocminer if this is the case but I think it is not yet already
@ iCEBREAKER Have you considered relaxation? Moreover; your argument would be at most critiqued and at least listened to if you toned down the language. Would you let your Grandmother, Mother or your children read this thread? If not, just think of all those potential crypto customers you will be losing.
However, if you tone down the vocals and contribute to the debate, you will be made welcome.
However, if you tone down the vocals and contribute to the debate, you will be made welcome.
Already contributed to the debate. But thanks for the nanny finger waggling.
I think we're all adults (or at least teens) here. Perhaps there's a browser plug-in you may use to remove or alter the words that hurt your widdle fweeelings.
Back on topic, are you the one who thinks PoW wastes energy, causing Manbearpig to send hurricanes after orphans and kittens?
You can relax about that, because mining is concentrated near surplus (ie free) energy, and the sun controls the climate.
Im sure pos also allows for Scalability and many more extra features that are not possible on pow.
Hawk and ZKsnarks are just two of many...
Cryptographic mixers - essentially, the ZK-SNARK verification enforces the rule that if you put one coin in you can take one coin and only one coin out, but the input-output mapping is completely hidden.
Hawk - essentially, smart contracts with encrypted state, where the full power of the blockchain is still used to verify that state transitions are correct because anyone updating the state needs to include a ZK-SNARK proving that the change from the old encrypted state to the new encrypted state is a valid state transition (proving all of this without revealing what the decrypted old or new states, or the decrypted transaction data, is!).
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4v2ug3/zksnarks_zero_knowledge_proofs_now_possible_via/
Hawk: The Blockchain Model of Cryptography and
Privacy-Preserving Smart Contracts
https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/675.pdf
Hawk and ZKsnarks are just two of many...
Cryptographic mixers - essentially, the ZK-SNARK verification enforces the rule that if you put one coin in you can take one coin and only one coin out, but the input-output mapping is completely hidden.
Hawk - essentially, smart contracts with encrypted state, where the full power of the blockchain is still used to verify that state transitions are correct because anyone updating the state needs to include a ZK-SNARK proving that the change from the old encrypted state to the new encrypted state is a valid state transition (proving all of this without revealing what the decrypted old or new states, or the decrypted transaction data, is!).
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4v2ug3/zksnarks_zero_knowledge_proofs_now_possible_via/
Hawk: The Blockchain Model of Cryptography and
Privacy-Preserving Smart Contracts
https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/675.pdf
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