[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 1098.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Chronikka on November 19, 2015, 03:14:57 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 19, 2015, 03:01:43 PM

Quote from: Chronikka on November 19, 2015, 02:50:54 PM

Is it really that important for Ethereum to be anonymous, and could it be enforced only on a per transaction basis (meaning each transaction in ethereum can be anonymous or not at the discretion of the sender)?

From a business perspective anonymous is not necessarily a good thing. Sometimes having funds and transactions available for the public to see can provide legitimacy. For example if you buy a product online and pay with some digital currency, that transaction serves as your receipt. If the transaction is anonymous then your receipt is worthless as it proves nothing. But if the receiver's address is known , and you can verify ownership of the sending address, the transaction is forever recorded on the blockchain as your receipt. Anonymity can be useful but it can also be a detriment depending on who you are.

If Ethereum is designed to be a platform for crypto based services then anonymity should be a choice, based on the needs of the service. Just my 2 cents.

The things you describe are more of an issue with Zerocoin/Zerocash type coins; Monero-like ring signatures already solved those problems.

The anonymity is opt-in. View keys provide an audit trail when required.

https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/moneropedia/viewkey

If its implementing Cryptonote (Same as Monero) are there any plans to deal with blockchain size? Ring Signatures when implemented will cause massive blockchain bloat, and the Ethereum chain is already +3 GB after less than 4 months. Are there any strategies for dealing with this?

That's a good question, but unfortunately we can't discuss it here without being accused of "shilling." Roll Eyes

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Longenecker on November 19, 2015, 03:02:43 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 19, 2015, 03:01:43 PM

Quote from: Chronikka on November 19, 2015, 02:50:54 PM

Is it really that important for Ethereum to be anonymous, and could it be enforced only on a per transaction basis (meaning each transaction in ethereum can be anonymous or not at the discretion of the sender)?

From a business perspective anonymous is not necessarily a good thing. Sometimes having funds and transactions available for the public to see can provide legitimacy. For example if you buy a product online and pay with some digital currency, that transaction serves as your receipt. If the transaction is anonymous then your receipt is worthless as it proves nothing. But if the receiver's address is known , and you can verify ownership of the sending address, the transaction is forever recorded on the blockchain as your receipt. Anonymity can be useful but it can also be a detriment depending on who you are.

If Ethereum is designed to be a platform for crypto based services then anonymity should be a choice, based on the needs of the service. Just my 2 cents.

The things you describe are more of an issue with Zerocoin/Zerocash type coins; Monero-like ring signatures already solved those problems.

The anonymity is opt-in. View keys provide an audit trail when required.

https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/moneropedia/viewkey

Quit shilling here man. You're making yourself and Monero look bad.

Your shilling accusation does not answer Chronikka's questions.

I answered Chronikka's questions. Sorry if that makes you butthurt. Wink

It's not my fault ETH decided to use "monero-like linkable ring signaures" which can best be explained in terms of what XMR has already done.

You don't like it when Monero is mentioned in a discussion about ETH's new "monero-like linkable ring signatures?"

Gee, that's just too bad. Please go sodomize yourself with retractable batons.

Chronikka

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 504

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 19, 2015, 03:01:43 PM

Quote from: Chronikka on November 19, 2015, 02:50:54 PM

Is it really that important for Ethereum to be anonymous, and could it be enforced only on a per transaction basis (meaning each transaction in ethereum can be anonymous or not at the discretion of the sender)?

From a business perspective anonymous is not necessarily a good thing. Sometimes having funds and transactions available for the public to see can provide legitimacy. For example if you buy a product online and pay with some digital currency, that transaction serves as your receipt. If the transaction is anonymous then your receipt is worthless as it proves nothing. But if the receiver's address is known , and you can verify ownership of the sending address, the transaction is forever recorded on the blockchain as your receipt. Anonymity can be useful but it can also be a detriment depending on who you are.

If Ethereum is designed to be a platform for crypto based services then anonymity should be a choice, based on the needs of the service. Just my 2 cents.

The things you describe are more of an issue with Zerocoin/Zerocash type coins; Monero-like ring signatures already solved those problems.

The anonymity is opt-in. View keys provide an audit trail when required.

https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/moneropedia/viewkey

If its implementing Cryptonote (Same as Monero) are there any plans to deal with blockchain size? Ring Signatures when implemented will cause massive blockchain bloat, and the Ethereum chain is already +3 GB after less than 4 months. Are there any strategies for dealing with this?

Longenecker

full member

Activity: 226

Merit: 100

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 19, 2015, 03:01:43 PM

...

Quit shilling here man. You're making yourself and Monero look bad.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Chronikka on November 19, 2015, 02:50:54 PM

Is it really that important for Ethereum to be anonymous, and could it be enforced only on a per transaction basis (meaning each transaction in ethereum can be anonymous or not at the discretion of the sender)?

From a business perspective anonymous is not necessarily a good thing. Sometimes having funds and transactions available for the public to see can provide legitimacy. For example if you buy a product online and pay with some digital currency, that transaction serves as your receipt. If the transaction is anonymous then your receipt is worthless as it proves nothing. But if the receiver's address is known , and you can verify ownership of the sending address, the transaction is forever recorded on the blockchain as your receipt. Anonymity can be useful but it can also be a detriment depending on who you are.

If Ethereum is designed to be a platform for crypto based services then anonymity should be a choice, based on the needs of the service. Just my 2 cents.

The things you describe are more of an issue with Zerocoin/Zerocash type coins; Monero-like ring signatures already solved those problems.

The anonymity is opt-in. View keys provide an audit trail when required.

https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/moneropedia/viewkey

Longenecker

full member

Activity: 226

Merit: 100

Quote from: battbot on November 19, 2015, 11:50:04 AM

Let's paint a picture:

On Nov 17th, Ethereum's William Mougayar said 20-plus banks are testing on Ethereum (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ethereums-william-mougayar-20-plus-banks-testing-blockchains-outside-consortium-model-1529080)

Just now (Nov 19th), Mike Hearn of R3 (25 bank blockchain consortium) said on /r/bitcoin that R3 is looking at using Ethereum and NOT Bitcoin! Specifically, he said:

"It'd be a conflict of interest if there was any chance of banks adopting Bitcoin for the use cases they're looking at, things like moving fiat currencies around, managing post trade lifecycles, etc. But there is no such chance. The use cases they are looking at and requirements they have cannot be met with the Bitcoin protocol, it just doesn't have the things they need. They are actually spending a lot more time looking at Ethereum than Bitcoin, as it's more obvious how to apply it to their use cases. But even if Bitcoin had all the features banks needed for what they want to do, their volumes are such that they wouldn't fit on a crippled 1mb-only block chain. Bitcoin can barely handle its existing user base without running out of capacity. Dropping existing inter-bank transactions onto it would simply not work."

When someone asked Mike Hearn to elaborate specifically on his statement that "They are actually spending a lot more time looking at Ethereum than Bitcoin," his response was:

"This stuff isn't really a secret: https://twitter.com/annairrera/status/639065607338598400/photo/1

As an example, try sketching out how to model a bond lifecycle with Bitcoin. I tried it in 2012 for the videod talk I gave in London. It requires absurd acrobatics for even a very simplified sort of bond and when you get into the real thing, forget it. They are interested in Ethereum due to its more powerful scripting language (and, I suspect, its better reputation, as Ethereum has not yet been sullied by people using it for trading illegal things)."

   (Link to reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3tftas/mike_hearn_now_working_for_r3cv_blockchain/)

Conclusions:
   1. R3 / big banks are overlooking Bitcoin and instead opting for Ethereum.
   2. Ethereum + R3 partnership all but confirmed[?]
   3. Buy more ETH

It almost feels like the momentum is turning away from Bitcoin and towards Ethereum.

Chronikka

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 504

Is it really that important for Ethereum to be anonymous, and could it be enforced only on a per transaction basis (meaning each transaction in ethereum can be anonymous or not at the discretion of the sender)?

From a business perspective anonymous is not necessarily a good thing. Sometimes having funds and transactions available for the public to see can provide legitimacy. For example if you buy a product online and pay with some digital currency, that transaction serves as your receipt. If the transaction is anonymous then your receipt is worthless as it proves nothing. But if the receiver's address is known , and you can verify ownership of the sending address, the transaction is forever recorded on the blockchain as your receipt. Anonymity can be useful but it can also be a detriment depending on who you are.

If Ethereum is designed to be a platform for crypto based services then anonymity should be a choice, based on the needs of the service. Just my 2 cents.

Blazin8888

hero member

Activity: 672

Merit: 500

ETH IS MOST ANONYMOUS COIN.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: NextGenCrypto on November 19, 2015, 01:35:24 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 19, 2015, 12:49:54 PM

And it's unusable alpha-grade software, unlike Monero which has been up and running for more than a year.

Unjustified bullshit from the Monero troll army...

Looks like they're starting to feel threatened. As they should.

"Unjustified?"

Clicking sure is difficult for you millennial types...

From https://github.com/ethereum/serpent/blob/develop/examples/ecc/ringsig.se

Code:

# TOTALLY NOT TESTED AND LIKELY BROKEN AT THIS POINT; AWAITING A TEST SUITE

"Threatened?"

Read what I said about the superiority of layered security:

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 19, 2015, 12:49:54 PM

As a layered approach to security is best, let's consider how BTC's CT, ETH's MLRS, and XMR's RCTM may work together, rather than pretend any one solution is completely optimal.

OTOH, DASH's me-too Evolusham vaporware marketing campaign (which is some kind of farcical version of ETH) is threatened with premature obsolescence.

NextGenCrypto

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 19, 2015, 12:49:54 PM

And it's unusable alpha-grade software, unlike Monero which has been up and running for more than a year.

Unjustified bullshit from the Monero troll army...

Looks like they're starting to feel threatened. As they should.

sangoku

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 501

Be carefull, iCEBREAKER is a troll and scammer.
Monero is a sect

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Blazin8888 on November 18, 2015, 08:32:08 PM

Is ETH more anonymous than XMR , DASH, SDC ?

Not right now. Maybe someday. But not Soon^®.

ETH's "Monero-like" mixing is only like Monero in that it uses ring signatures.

But the mixing isn't done at the protocol level, and it's ad hoc rather than automatic, so the set of other tx available with which to mix your tx is much smaller.

What ETH is doing is providing the tools to build DASH like mixers on top of ETH's 'zero features' platform.

It's an inferior approach and should be called DASH-like, as it only bears a passing functional resemblance to Monero.

And it's unusable alpha-grade software, unlike Monero which has been up and running for more than a year.

A more fair (ie, vapor-to-vapor) comparison would be ETH's new thing versus XMR's new hotness (https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/raw/master/RingCT0.4_copy.pdf).

EDIT: As a layered approach to security is best, let's consider how BTC's CT, ETH's MLRS, and XMR's RCTM may work together, rather than pretend any one solution is completely optimal.

battbot

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Let's paint a picture:

On Nov 17th, Ethereum's William Mougayar said 20-plus banks are testing on Ethereum (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ethereums-william-mougayar-20-plus-banks-testing-blockchains-outside-consortium-model-1529080)

Just now (Nov 19th), Mike Hearn of R3 (25 bank blockchain consortium) said on /r/bitcoin that R3 is looking at using Ethereum and NOT Bitcoin! Specifically, he said:

"It'd be a conflict of interest if there was any chance of banks adopting Bitcoin for the use cases they're looking at, things like moving fiat currencies around, managing post trade lifecycles, etc. But there is no such chance. The use cases they are looking at and requirements they have cannot be met with the Bitcoin protocol, it just doesn't have the things they need. They are actually spending a lot more time looking at Ethereum than Bitcoin, as it's more obvious how to apply it to their use cases. But even if Bitcoin had all the features banks needed for what they want to do, their volumes are such that they wouldn't fit on a crippled 1mb-only block chain. Bitcoin can barely handle its existing user base without running out of capacity. Dropping existing inter-bank transactions onto it would simply not work."

When someone asked Mike Hearn to elaborate specifically on his statement that "They are actually spending a lot more time looking at Ethereum than Bitcoin," his response was:

"This stuff isn't really a secret: https://twitter.com/annairrera/status/639065607338598400/photo/1

As an example, try sketching out how to model a bond lifecycle with Bitcoin. I tried it in 2012 for the videod talk I gave in London. It requires absurd acrobatics for even a very simplified sort of bond and when you get into the real thing, forget it. They are interested in Ethereum due to its more powerful scripting language (and, I suspect, its better reputation, as Ethereum has not yet been sullied by people using it for trading illegal things)."

(Link to reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3tftas/mike_hearn_now_working_for_r3cv_blockchain/)

Conclusions:
1. R3 / big banks are overlooking Bitcoin and instead opting for Ethereum.
2. Ethereum + R3 partnership all but confirmed[?]
3. Buy more ETH

sangoku

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 501

Yes, only GPU Wink

almond

sr. member

Activity: 407

Merit: 254

Quote from: sangoku on November 19, 2015, 05:54:47 AM

New hashrate record

http://etherscan.io/charts/hashrate

where do all the gpu's come from ?

sangoku

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 501

New hashrate record

http://etherscan.io/charts/hashrate

HardForkComing

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

I think ETH will overtake BTC in a few years.

Sumo

hero member

Activity: 1098

Merit: 500

Do they exist yet or are they in theory? Tongue

sepehr

sr. member

Activity: 399

Merit: 250

Cryptocurrency Evangelist

Quote from: sepehr on November 16, 2015, 02:20:21 AM

I have a question,

Is there any exchange that exchanges Etherum tokens?
Please pay attention I don't mean ETH, I mean tokens created under Etherum protocol:

https://www.ethereum.org/token

I still have no exact reply about this!
Is there any regular exchange to do that?
Let's say I know about Etherex, I mean regular exchanges like polonix and ...

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: battbot on November 18, 2015, 06:52:15 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 18, 2015, 05:26:30 PM

Quote from: Abiky on November 18, 2015, 11:32:20 AM

Quote from: battbot on November 18, 2015, 11:28:14 AM

Vitalik just posted in /r/ethereum -- Ethereum just implemented anon-tx's!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3tappe/early_alpha_monerolike_linkable_ring_signatures/

Absolutely fabulous. Now we can have the greatness of anon coins such as Dash and Monero into a single decentralized platform. This is really good news. If Ethereum could keep up with this, we will be able to see it go to the moon! Time to buy some more. Cheesy

TIL there exist ETH Maximalist Monopolist Supremacists. Tongue

Single platforms are not "absolutely fabulous." They are single points of failure and should be avoided in favor of resilient heterogeneous ecosystems.

This feature is more like Dash than Monero, because the (ad hoc) anonymization is not done to all coins at the protocol level.

TIL there exist XMR bagholders in ETH.

Good luck with your fabulous one-size-fits-all single ~~point of failure~~ platform.

I hope you don't go off the rails like the Bitcoin Monopolist Maximalist Supremacists who ended up indistinguishable from Buttcoiners.

Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 1098. (Read 2007090 times)