Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 1272. (Read 2003740 times)
Fundraiser is being pushed back: http://blog.ethereum.org/?p=100/conference-testnet-and-fundraiser-updates
many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
At 40% inflation per year, I don't see how this could possibly be a good investment.
It's not 40% per year. Where X = initial ether raised through crowdfunding;
Initial supply = 1.5X
0.4X will be mined each year.
Ether in existence at the end of:
Year 1 = 1.9X
Year 2 = 2.3X
Year 3 = 2.7X
Year 4 = 3.1X
Year 5 = 3.5X
For an inflation rate of 26% in Year 1, 21% in Year 2, 17% in Year 3, 14% in Year 4, and 12% in Year 5
many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
At 40% inflation per year, I don't see how this could possibly be a good investment.
many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"
still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.
They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.
still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.
They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.
I will grant that they are perfectly comfortable with raising far more money than the minimal amount of 500BTC - they're capitalists after all and they want to develop their product, quickly. The more salaries they can pay, the more developers and security professionals they can apply to projects and the faster the platform develops - it's not a bad thing for investors, miners or founders.
Your suggestion to limit per address is completely insufficient to prevent wealthy investors from investing as they wish. There is a minimal cost difference for sending 1000 BTC from 1 address or 2000 addresses. (I'd estimate around 0.2BTC in trx fees and perhaps .1 BTC in paying someone to create the addresses, if the investor lacks the technical knowledge).
My .02 FWIW
Yeah - see this is the deal. If people think Eth is worth 500K - then it will start out being funded and valued at 500K. If they think it's worth 30mil - then it will be worth 30 mil from the get go. My impression is that the founders expect this to take off. And they are comfortable with 500K or 30mil.
People need to do more thinking in terms of "how big is the pie" vs "how much of the pie who gets". The initial investors are largely determining how big the initial pie is. The pie will continue to grow to pay miners at a set rate. I don't get what the big deal is - IF this works there is a lot of money to be made. But not for a few years. The pump and dumpers should probably avoid this one.
I'm still trying to figure out exactly where the initial bitcoins are going to wind up. Hope they release more in the prospectus. My impression was that the usage of bitcoins was going to be completely transparent. But there is so much shit going around I honestly can't tell.
Capitalism is never fair.
"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"
still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.
They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.
still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.
They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.
I will grant that they are perfectly comfortable with raising far more money than the minimal amount of 500BTC - they're capitalists after all and they want to develop their product, quickly. The more salaries they can pay, the more developers and security professionals they can apply to projects and the faster the platform develops - it's not a bad thing for investors, miners or founders.
Your suggestion to limit per address is completely insufficient to prevent wealthy investors from investing as they wish. There is a minimal cost difference for sending 1000 BTC from 1 address or 2000 addresses. (I'd estimate around 0.2BTC in trx fees and perhaps .1 BTC in paying someone to create the addresses, if the investor lacks the technical knowledge).
"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"
still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.
They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.
still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.
They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.
Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested.
If the Ethereum founders were to only accept say 500 BTC and issue Ethers at say 100 satoshis ea, it would just limit the public from investing and then the complaint would be loudest from those who could not get in on the IPO at the initial price. The price would instantly spike up and the market cap would end up in the same place, only with fewer participants.
Invest or don't but just realize that the price and quantity is only based upon the desire of investors to participate.
If the Ethereum founders were to only accept say 500 BTC and issue Ethers at say 100 satoshis ea, it would just limit the public from investing and then the complaint would be loudest from those who could not get in on the IPO at the initial price. The price would instantly spike up and the market cap would end up in the same place, only with fewer participants.
Invest or don't but just realize that the price and quantity is only based upon the desire of investors to participate.
Listen to this guy. His posts actually help this thread.
many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested.
If the Ethereum founders were to only accept say 500 BTC and issue Ethers at say 100 satoshis ea, it would just limit the public from investing and then the complaint would be loudest from those who could not get in on the IPO at the initial price. The price would instantly spike up and the market cap would end up in the same place, only with fewer participants.
Invest or don't but just realize that the price and quantity is only based upon the desire of investors to participate.
many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents.
Only if you bought it in the first week
If however you bought it in the last 3 days ether cost 80 cents (@800$ a btc)
Blockchain powered by Turing-complete language leads to a lot of unresolvable issues. It's not a scam, more like a failure where a lot of money is involved. I hope Vitalik is smarter than Matthew N. Wright and knows when it's time to stop...
Whenever doing something for the first time, there are those who decry it to be impossible. I think that it's wise to bring up concerns but the major value in Ethereum is attempting to do something that has not been done before. If it fails because it's too ambitious, I hope that investors will have taken this into account in evaluating the risk/reward factor.
I lost count how many times TRC and FTC networks got attacked, they still live. I can foresee red flag issues happen to ether chain, but if they're not so freaking really bad, ppl will forget after fixed.
many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
The question is not about the right to participate. The question is why is Charles proud of that fact? It looks like a major inconsistency to me. It is like working on a new mail server app and in the same time promoting your project by saying that some members of your team worked in the local post office and were among the best postmen?!
BTW, why has Charles parted with BitShares and Invictus project? What happened to the 0.5 million VC there? Are his investors happy with current state of BitShares and Invictus?
BTW, why has Charles parted with BitShares and Invictus project? What happened to the 0.5 million VC there? Are his investors happy with current state of BitShares and Invictus?
Who says he's "proud"? To me it just sounded like he said it in passing.
At the risk of running in circles I think he merely stated it - not to show off or be proud of the fact - but as a way to showcase the credentials of the people involved in the project.
Judging by how people perceived this IPO so far, their chewing speed should be slow-motion like.
And hopefully with more communication....
So this Turing OS people say it's so very flexible is actually a big liability also and opens up a fat can of worms. In other words they're likely biting more than they can chew.
Judging by how people perceived this IPO so far, their chewing speed should be slow-motion like.
Judging by how people perceived this IPO so far, their chewing speed should be slow-motion like.
Blockchain powered by Turing-complete language leads to a lot of unresolvable issues. It's not a scam, more like a failure where a lot of money is involved. I hope Vitalik is smarter than Matthew N. Wright and knows when it's time to stop...
Whenever doing something for the first time, there are those who decry it to be impossible. I think that it's wise to bring up concerns but the major value in Ethereum is attempting to do something that has not been done before. If it fails because it's too ambitious, I hope that investors will have taken this into account in evaluating the risk/reward factor.
Agreed. Problem that I have with this is that there is NO RISK to the developers. All the risk is on the investors whose stakes will be significantly diluted if it is successful while on the other hand Vitalik and the team win extremely big no matter how this works out.
Blockchain powered by Turing-complete language leads to a lot of unresolvable issues. It's not a scam, more like a failure where a lot of money is involved. I hope Vitalik is smarter than Matthew N. Wright and knows when it's time to stop...
Whenever doing something for the first time, there are those who decry it to be impossible. I think that it's wise to bring up concerns but the major value in Ethereum is attempting to do something that has not been done before. If it fails because it's too ambitious, I hope that investors will have taken this into account in evaluating the risk/reward factor.
I'm now getting more and more surprised by each passing day that NO ONE from the list has bothered to answer.
This really is looking more and more like a COMPLETE SCAM!
If anyone still thinks of investing on day 1, please read this thread from the beginning to the end. Please don't rush your decision.
This really is looking more and more like a COMPLETE SCAM!
If anyone still thinks of investing on day 1, please read this thread from the beginning to the end. Please don't rush your decision.
Why should they wast they time to answer to people who are incapable to read the official docs? >90% here is just FUD/totally unqualified posts.
People who really are interested should take at least 1 hour and read about it and try to understand it. Maybe not everything is so easy for the first moment and the IPO has some complexity, but to write SCAM without having any idea about it, disqualifies just yourself.
First I didn't just write SCAM and you really don't know how much I read about the whole project, so please don't presume I don't have any idea about it.
I said it is looking more and more like a COMPLETE SCAM!
Can you please help me understand why there is no reply from ANYONE from their "team"? Everyone of them will get plenty of money very soon... Why is the whole investing thing so punitive to investors in this project? Why such greed?
When I started reading about it a week ago, I immediately set aside 1 btc for investing into it. Now I will wait very probably to buy on the market after the "IPO".
I'm not trolling nor I'm a part of some group that tries to influence the "IPO". I'm regular guy who tries to make an investment that will be one day profitable.
Dear k99, would you not agree that such project with so many people involved that has such high aspirations would/should participate SOMEWHERE to answer all those questions _ingsoc is so diligently organizing?
People are very willing to invest. Look at NEM https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-nem-4-billions-coins-part-1-this-thread-is-no-longer-used-422129 what is happening. People see engagement and commitment and they see when someone is not just greedy but in fact wants to and tries to make thing as fair as possible. All those very "established" guys from Ethereum project should learn a lot from guys like utopianfuture.
Unfortunately this lack of communication ONLY 2 DAYS prior to the "IPO" is very very suspicious.
Please read my previous posts and you'll see that I changed my mind gradually and I really like the idea that they've announced but I also learned that that too is copied from somewhere ripple related. :-(
Please also look at my "Business plan" and tell me why it is different than what they've done so far? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4794599
Why don't you trust me as you do them? I certainly am more experienced and proven in that field then they are in theirs. I already have working business etc.
But of course no one in the right mind would invest under such terms in my idea because they would be taking ALL THE RISK and would be punished when I take new partners and dilute their shares. All that under the assumption that I will go to work after I receive such fantastic money that I will share with my friends (whom we don't know anything and their role in the project: how much they will do and get).
I would be very happy to be misguided/misinformed here but this REALLY looks more and more like a COMPLETE SCAM to me by each passing day. At least from my point of view which I believe am free to express here.
Again, I encouraged only patience and reading to people who still think of investing on day 1. Is that bad?
Blockchain powered by Turing-complete language leads to a lot of unresolvable issues. It's not a scam, more like a failure where a lot of money is involved. I hope Vitalik is smarter than Matthew N. Wright and knows when it's time to stop...
I'm now officially interested in this coin too. I'm interested in finding out how many joe blows will give these guys 36 million cash and 50% pre-mine for just another tech coin.
Three, at least.
I have about 5000 btc that I plan to invest and a few of my friends are investing about the same amount.
That guy was being sarcastic. Just check his other posts.
+1
As well as I am in my business plan here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4794599
Just wanted to make that clear. MY PLAN is NOT FOR INVESTING INTO.
Jump to: