Topic: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official - page 139. (Read 196191 times)

What I'm trying to say is that the distribution of chances and risks between this group of insiders and others are any other than equal. The insiders will definitely not lose, no matter what happens. In any case, at the expense of others.

Oh that's easy. There’s a group of insiders which claims to have invested a certain amount of money. You have to trust this group of insiders that they really did. You also have to trust unknown offshore foundations managed by anonymous people (who are most probably prejudiced by the interests of this group of insiders) that they will honour their promises, even though they (whoever they are, whatever they additionally earn) have no way to prove that they will what they say they will. Does that sound incredibly dodgy to you? Because it certainly does to me. No matter what will happen to the coin, this group of insiders always has an exit scenario.

Could well be. Seems like this thread's got Robert Duskes signature written all over the place.

One of Bob's crew perhaps? Lot of that going on here.

If you would've got balls, you would use your own account and not some shill newbie account, like this one to spread fud, even before the launch of a new coin.

Where is your proof for that statement?  I'm interested in this project more for the back and forth going on here than the coin itself. Since I have no PROOF one way or the other, I won't even entertain discussion on legitimacy but, what proof do you have it is a scam?

It is!

How stupid do you think people are? You sound like some crook in the boiler room, giggling endlessly about the stupid people. Hey, I'm following a lot of companies. Does this make me an investor?

The more you post, the more it looks like a big fraud.

"blah blah bleugh...probably says more about how shadowy some parts of the crypto world are than it does about us..."



'probably, but possibly not'

Dear Sandrine,

There is no trace of an "NEU Development Corporation LTD" on the Internet, and you have provided no links, and no names of (meat-bag) directors.

What you took a long time to say above is, quite clearly:  tax dodge, no names, no responsible people or entities to sue for malfeasance.  Seychelles?  Tax dodge.  Anonymity.  Isle of Man?  Tax Dodge.

Who are the directors?  Where is the equity?

I get it.  There is no equity.  The product (the coins) allow people to vote, but insiders hold a really large majority of the votes at the get-go, and there is nobody that can be put in jail when this whole thing crashes and burns on Cryptsy.  Your "friends and former co-workers and founders" who are in at a huge discount cash in 25% of their holdings which is an enormous multiple of the public float in the first year, and more so afterwards if there is anything left.

And you guys split the $30 million.  Fuck me!  Nice! 

Cherie, did you even do the math or ask questions before getting involved in this?  You are a corporate version of Ryan Kennedy 2015.

Part stock scam, part pump and dump, part Ponzi scheme, and with your referral program, part pyramid scheme!

Neucoin has everything except somebody to go to jail when the house of cards gets a light breeze of marketplace reality!

I am not in, but will laugh a lot as I read the press releases.

Careful that since you are the public face of this that they don't bring you down for promoting the fraud.

Seychelles?  Isle of Man?  No director names?  No CEO?  

This is absolutely nothing.

Cheers,

Gekko

We've been over this again and again, the fact that he can try doesn't mean he will ever succeed but despite me providing the maths you just don't seem to grasp this concept.
It's exactly the same as the infinite monkey theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem.

You can click on the following links to see some of our investors who are following NeuCoin on twitter:

Patrik Stymne
https://twitter.com/patrikstymne/following

Emil Michael
https://twitter.com/emilmichael/following

Rob Goldman
https://twitter.com/robjective/following

Daniel Sachs
https://twitter.com/DanielSachs1/following

Josh Engroff
https://twitter.com/jengroff/following

David Frykman
https://twitter.com/davidfrykman/following

Nicholas Hogberg
https://twitter.com/nichhog/following

Calle Sjoenell
https://twitter.com/callesjoenell/following
and a tweet about NeuCoin: https://twitter.com/callesjoenell/status/591625275319922688

Andreas Reutercrona
https://twitter.com/1nov2LAX9/following

Henrik Sundgren
https://twitter.com/Falukropp/following

Some of our investors have listed NeuCoin on their LinkedIn profiles:
Markus Alderback
https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1557494&authType=OUT_OF_NETWORK&authToken=gKTJ&locale=en_US&srchid=156097661429810836062&srchindex=4&srchtotal=13&trk=vsrp_people_res_name&trkInfo=VSRPsearchId%3A156097661429810836062%2CVSRPtargetId%3A1557494%2CVSRPcmpt%3Aprimary%2CVSRPnm%3A

David Frykman
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/neucoin-david-frykman?trk=prof-post

Christophe Salanon
https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=70224&authType=OUT_OF_NETWORK&authToken=hR1x&locale=en_US&srchid=156097661429708789525&srchindex=7&srchtotal=12&trk=vsrp_people_res_name&trkInfo=VSRPsearchId%3A156097661429708789525%2CVSRPtargetId%3A70224%2CVSRPcmpt%3Aprimary%2CVSRPnm%3A

Jonas Svensson
https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=11874902&authType=name&authToken=2wyp&trk=hp-feed-member-name
For sure there are others, and more investors will publicly link themselves to NeuCoin over time.


There is also a lot of misunderstanding of what life in Paris is… I’ve had the incredible chance to work in the Parisian tech and web scene for a few years now. There are amazing startups being created here, and they indeed need to be lean to be able to launch their product - and that’s what they do. Many more startups are being created in San Francisco, which is a much more expensive city than Paris, in terms of everything (housing, food, transportation, etc). If you come to Paris in the following years, give me a heads-up (I’m serious, not even ironical), we’ll grab a coffee, and I’ll also introduce you to a pretty amazing startup accelerator I helped create - and all the lean startups it’s supporting.

Please let me know if you have other comments, I’ll be glad to address them. In the meantime, if you have the chance to read our wiki, here it is: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/

Hi Gekko463!

Disclaimer: this is a long one.

A couple answers to your questions, some of them indeed very relevant. Please note that you will find answers to some of them on our website: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/ - you may want to have a look at it. But I’ll give you details below.


I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to show here: “I had provided marketing assistance in an advisory role previously” - he uses the expression “Advisory role” himself. You may have a different conception of what “Advisory board” and “advisory roles” are, but basically from our perspective, these are positions in which the people filling them provide us with their counsel, but is in no way an operational role. Here is an example of Jackson’s previous help, when we released our white paper (that you may be interested in checking out as well: http://www.neucoin.org/en/whitepaper/): https://twitter.com/victoriavaneyk/status/582614164251762689
As for the fact he left the crypto community, Jackson envisioned a world where cryptocurrencies would be designed to reach broader audiences than what we can see today. NeuCoin's goal is exactly about this and we'll keep executing on this mission statement!


Here are details on the corporate entities at play in the NeuCoin Project: three non-profit Isle of Man foundations were created, they will be donated the 2.4B premine when the cryptocurrency is created - which is scheduled to happen in July 2015.

Details about the establishment of these three foundations can be found on the links below:
The current Isle of Man foundations register can be found here (updated daily):
http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/ded/companies/companiesReg/Foundations/foundationsactregister.pdf.
You can see the 3 NeuCoin foundations near the end of the list (numbers 000060M, 000061M and 000062M).
Another useful link: http://www.gov.im/ded/companies/Foundations/register.xml

After the NeuCoin cryptocurrency is created, the founding team will donate the source code and the premined coins to Neucoin’s non-profit foundations in the Isle of Man: the NeuCoin Code Foundation, the NeuCoin Growth Foundation and the NeuCoin Utility Foundation.
Since NeuCoin is not yet created, nor yet donated to the NeuCoin Foundations, the Presale will be handled by NEU Development Ltd, a Seychelles based IBC with the single purpose of handling the Presale transactions. Once the NeuCoin currency is created, and the pre-mine donated to the NeuCoin Foundations, the foundations will transfer 100 million coins to NEU Development Ltd in exchange for the funds raised in the Presale, and NEU Development Ltd will transfer your coins to people who have taken part in the presale.

The founding team owns 0.2 billion of the 3B premine. The detailed allocation of the premine is available at this link: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#advantages, point 10

Some of the team members work for free, some work for heavily discounted rates, and some are paid full salaries. The resources for salaries came from the NeuCoin Project’searly seed funding and then a later angel round: http://www.coindesk.com/uber-hotwire-2-25-million-neucoin/.

Here are some details about the business plan, there will be two parts in my answers:
1. How the Foundations are able to fund marketing and the development of useful applications targeted at mainstream consumers.
2. What is the “founding team” business model, what is in it for them - as it is indeed a fair question.

On the first point:
NeuCoins will be distributed to reward and incentivize all participants who help increase its utility and value:

• Some for free to consumers to try using NeuCoin and for recruiting other users
• Some to companies that make NeuCoin useful: content providers that accept micropayments in NeuCoin, exchanges, payment processors, wallets, etc.
• Some sold to investors, with proceeds used to fund code development, user acquisition, and projects to further develop utility, with a focus on micropayments

The NeuCoin foundations use proceeds from coin sales to directly fund projects that increase the utility and consumer reach of NeuCoin, which in turn, increases the value of NeuCoin. More details are available at this link: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#utility-development

On the second point: the founding team’s long term “business model” indeed revolves around their holdings of NeuCoins. Here are the detailed resale restrictions: holders may only sell 2% of their holdings per month in the first year, 3% per month in year two, 4% per month in the year three, 5% per month in year four and 6% per month in year 5. Maybe you are familiar with common equity vesting mechanisms in startups, these re-sale restrictions totally match them. The NeuCoin team invested work in a challenging project and built it - as such they get “equity” (in our case, a portion of the premine). Typical equity vesting has a 4-year cliff, but the founders are allowed to sell 25% after the 1st year, a little bit more on the 2nd, and so on. We used pretty standards figures here. But of course, maybe you are free to not like these standards.

There is a misunderstanding around NeuCoin distribution plan here. NeuCoin will never be “airdropped” for users doing a Facebook connect. They will be distributed by the Foundations over several years, always against an action from a consumer: for reading about NeuCoin, learning about it, recruiting new users, using NeuCoin, and so on. They will also be distributed to application builders who make the coin more useful to mainstream / non-tech users.
More information on this here: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#funding
Each year, the foundations’ goal is to sell sufficient NeuCoins through private sales or exchanges to fund the following year’s cash needs. However, when NeuCoin prices rise, the foundations may sell additional coins, with the excess cash obtained kept as a “rainy day” reserve. When prices fall, fewer (or zero) coins will be sold.  
Over time, the NeuCoin foundations must continuously determine what the optimal use of their NeuCoin assets are - optimal from the perspective of maximizing the value of NeuCoin. The Growth foundation must always assess whether NeuCoin’s long-term value would be maximized by giving more coins away to consumers, or selling more coins and using the funds for consumer marketing. The Utility foundation must always assess whether NeuCoin’s long-term value would be maximized by awarding more coins (ideally with sales restrictions) to service providers that make NeuCoin more useful, or by selling more coins and using the proceeds to directly fund projects. The prevailing price and demand for NeuCoin will always have a large bearing on this decision calculus.

Still waiting for Sandrine to show up with some answers on the legal/business side of this.

A corporation is a legal person, that we sue, if they commit civil infractions.

A "person" as in a meat-bag of flesh and blood serves the same purpose.

Really, Sandrine, my question is, who, as in which meat bag or legal construct is the "owner" of this project?  Your coins are your product.  You are not selling us "equity".  You are slinging product. 

Who, as in meat bag or legal construct is receiving the BTC you are trying to solicit?

And, how will you pay your Parisian rent?

I lived in Paris a long time ago.  The 50 square meter studio in the rue des Cannettes I used to rent for $800, is now $3200 a month.  That is 320,000 Neucoins at your presale price.

Now I rent a 4 bedroom 4 bath house in Hanoi for $450 a month.  That's only 45,000 Neucoins at your "valuation with no proof of jack shit".

So I question:

--the legal legitimacy of the entire structure.
--the intention to properly steward the "investments"

I live large in Hanoi.  A regular Vietnamese coder lives on a salary of 40,000 neucoins a month.

I am figuring your dinner last night, with wine, cost more.

Please respond.  If you want to play alt coins VC style--these are VC Questions.

How much CASH are you putting in?  Or is it all your "labour"?

Good answers get good money.

If anyone was serious about rivaling Bitcoin then these NeuCoin people did a half ass job in their research and implementation.

  Worse yet is they sent the secretary Sandrine to Bitcointalk and Reddit, while the NeuCoin "big boys" are probably at the clubs, so the amount of carelessness and indifference from the NeuCoin team is already evident.  Behind the closed doors, they're probably rubbing their hands and lighting cigars and gloating about the money they're about to swindle from people.  When you are forking Peercoin, which the only required capital is a peanut butter jelly sandwich and a computer in someone's basement, we are talking about 100% pure profit.


  Sounds like all they did for a year was hangout on the Doge Forum, made conclusions over a year ago and their primary input came from 8 year olds and the other 'special people' from the Doge community (probably 50% from Jackson Palmer).

Some effort went into connections but they lost a lot of points by

- Forking Peercoin (cryptocurrency is a relatively new industry so Peercoin is already old tech in that regard). 
- Massive inflation (that's a PR disaster waiting to happen.  If you have money on Apple Pay it doesn't lose value but on NeuCoin does).
- Absurd valuation when no proof of user adoption and no revenue.  Proposed theory behind user adoption is flawed (people on freemium websites don't want to pay for stuff they need but get for free, they're definitely not paying for stuff they don't need).


They're doing the very Mastercoin method of distribution where only a few dominate and then the few dump this thing down to $0.    That is if the highway bandit inflation or the foundation doesn't destroy it first.  

Does cryptocurrency really need another Ripple / Stellar.... especially an grossly incompetent one at that?    Even though the founder is technically an American Slum Lord who runs slum apartments in the United States, this coin seems to take on a more Parisian character whereyn I see a lot of envy and half ass lazy copying from prominent projects (forking Peercoin and wanting to copy Ripple / Stellar) and yet most people know that poor-to-no effort often equates with failure.

It is also a very inflationary coin.   It is a premine of 3 billion but they want to grow it to 100 billion.  Which kinds of goes back to earlier points, do you really believe all these Presidents, VPs and executive types are really going to be staking coins, in their pajamas, on their laptops?   What about Sally the Soccer Mom and Steve your next door neighbor?  

This is really obtuse stuff they claimed they weren't about.  If anything it looks like blind theft of anybody who is swindled to purchase their "NeuCoins" and doesn't know how to stake (aka 99.99% of potential adopters).   Anything you buy you lose up to 33x the percentage of market share = NeuCoin founders get rich at your expense.  Parisian apartments and trips out to wine country aren't cheap.


Never mind for us crypto types - are you going to have your node up 24/7 in order to get that full PoS?  You're buying into a massively inflationary coin where your holding loses value to inflation as soon as you miss a couple of nights or weeks or even months.  
  

"The rich boys" is a blood-sworn insider community. This is even official:

source: http://forum.neucoin.org/t/jackson-palmer-on-twitter/587/29


This cluster of early adopters has one common goal: To rip off late adopters in the presale and in the early times of trading!

Why have i not been asked if i wanted a 75% discount for seed investing? Am i not worthy?
I see. The rich boys only pay 25% and the unwashed plebs pay full price. No thanks.