Topic: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official - page 140. (Read 196221 times)

i looked into this... the only thing i see here is that king is in u guys will need millions of dollars to advertise your giveaway i suggest work with king make an mmorpg where the coins are needed and earned through the game i would have to cross platform from mac to android.. i got a better idea u want to expand crypto users take that 2 mil and make some bitcoin commercials or litecoin or fucking doge or whatever.. dosent matter no one coin is better.  just dont sell me a turd for a penny than double the supply in 1 year and expect it to add value and reward me.... inflation is inflation is inflation ... u keep inflating the currency u end up with wallpaer

also no free coin or ico will ever have more value than what is spent to produce it ... the reason bitcoin is valuable is because it takes a considerable INVESTMENT and a good deal of WORK just to understand it i spent 13 days earning my first milibit and it was only worth 10 cents in the real world but to me it was pricelss  because at the end i understood where the value comes from.... so when do i get a bunch of free coins i wanna play the pink panther and get some btc at least i know what its worth 

wtf?
Lots of investments, jackson palmer promoting, and only 9 pages of thread?
Also posted with an account named "Sandrine89"?

Okay, so if this coin is going down the drain, you'll be able to propose to Sandrine - she'll need someone to pay the rent.

Already answered those arguments in the other thread.  

EDIT:  Not really interested in rehashing the debate with koubiac
because he clearly is engaging in argumentum ad nauseam,
(also known as arguing by nagging or repetition).

If anyone besides koubiac thinks I am wrong, message me
because I always love to upgrade my knowledge.

So I won't post/debate/argue further about it here, but for those who are curious,
the arguments above fail because:

1) There is always going to be a time based targeting
or similar mechanism in a PoS coin, where it gets progressively
easier to find a block, or at the very least, give multiple chances
for nodes to form blocks (such as 1 per second).
NXT makes it easier each second to form a block, and I
believe peercoin just gives you 1 new chance per second.
However, some mechanism is necessary to prevent the blockchain from freezing
if no one produces a block.  So the attacker can
use that to his advantage to produce a long chain albeit with
greater spaces between the blocks.  Security rules can be introduced
and a discussion could be had about the best way to optimize that
without risking divergence or other attacks, but ignoring this property
and asserting the attacker simply has a very small chance to create
a chain is just ignorance about how PoS works.  

2) The rule that coins can't forge until 200 minutes doesn't help.
The attacker simply waits for his coins to mature and then can endlessly attack.
If the attack fails, it means the chain is not accepted by the
rest of the network.  Therefore, nothing changed in the attacker's UTXO,
and he can try again and again.

The most precise you've been in the thread was saying:


Ok so this is the most "precise" attack vector you've cared to give me.
I guess your confusion lies in the fact that "occasionally" doesn't mean anything. Will you succeed once every month? Once every year? Once every billion years?

I'll keep it simple and if you really are interested in the subject and aren't just trolling against PoS, I'll be glad to further our discussion.

So let's say the attacker owns 20% of the mining coins (I'm giving you a pretty substantial amount!) and he tries to fork every two hundred minutes in the past.
For the attacker to have a maximum advantage let's also suppose that the attacker didn't mine on the main chain which means he's competing against 100-20=80% of the mining coins.

Over 200 minutes, in average, the main chain will have created 200*0.8=160 while the attacker will create in average 200*0.2=80
I understand where you're coming from, since there's no cost, the attacker can try many times so you might think that at "some point" he will create more blocks than the rest of the network.
This probability is the probability that a Poisson process of Pois(80) has more occurrences than Pois(160) (http://imgur.com/cYZ1SHE) which is ~10^-46

So now let's go back to what "occasionally" actually means.
You can repeat that every 200 minutes (I'll explain why underneath), so the expected time (in years) before you succeed such an attack is 365*24*60/(200*10^-46)~10^48 years.
How large this number is is hard to fathom, as a comparison, the universe is 13.8 billions years old (~10^9).

So if you try your attack "constantly" you'll never succeed.


I know you think you can try more than once, so let me explain why this is not possible.

Trying more than once means that you need to modify the kernel. The only thing you have control over, as an attacker in such a situation, are the parameters linked to the UTXO.
You can modify them, and to do so, you must at the beginning of the fork send your coins back to yourself. These coins will then not be able to create any block for 1.6 days. All the numbers I'm giving are clock time, not real time, so I completely agree you can "spoof" the clock compared to real time, I've been making this supposition all throughout the attack.
So after 200 minutes, your branch will have created exactly zero blocks, the blocks you would have created would be rejected by the nodes because the UTXOs weren't old enough to mine.


If you have any arguments that aren't based on intuition, I'd be glad to answer them.

Lol, awesome coin.

"all the important info you would wanna know about will drop eventually, after you give us your money"

So what we are buying into here is the 'idea' behind the coin. Reminds me of something..

https://www.ethereum.org/

The old razzmatazz. If you can't stun em with knowledge, dazzle em with bullshit.

I am sure these controlling powers to be could more than fund this project on their own, why would they so graciously offer internet peons the opportunity to prosper with them?

Why would it matter if non-profits hold so much of the premine. Isn't that ass backwards from what i would actually want, companies who make profit holding the premine, because at least then they could make money and strengthen the backing of the premine they hold..

Invest in this (soon to be revealed as a scam) coin at your own risk.

Looks like two people on the Advisory board have had their advisory roles in this project grossly exaggerated:  Palmer and Witrant.

Jackson Palmer today discussed his "Advisory Role" at Neucoin in the following terms:  "To set the record straight, I'm not at all a paid shill for NeuCoin... I had provided marketing assistance in an advisory role previously...when the NeuCoin folks came to me and asked if I'd mind posting a simple request for feedback I thought "hey, Dogecoin hasn't got a lot going on right now, maybe this (free stuff!) will interest them".

Then he quit the crypto community, including, presumably his (limited) role at Neucoin?

I can't find a business plan.  Who owns the company producing this coin?  It seems what they want us to buy is the product (the coin).  But it seems somebody else, whomever is to be on the receiving end of these bitcoins they want us to pony up for the coins, is obscured.

Where is this corporate entity?  What is it that the "Founding team" owns?  What corporate entity receives the BTC, establishes these Foundations and pays the Salaries?  Who is the CEO?

If the Founders are being paid in neucoins, rather than corporate equity or salaries, they have to sell those coins to pay their (Parisian for at least Sandrine) rent.  N'est pas?

2% per month cash out limits means 24% per year!

The more I try to understand this, the less I am interested.

Lots of free coins to be had?  So why pay for any?

Lot's of hyperinflation built in.  How will $.01 price stand up to the 100% hyperinflation, and the Founders dumping 24% of their stakes in year 1 to pay their Parisian Rents?

The only "new" thing I see is that instead of being scammed from a basement in Romania by Beavis and Butthead, we are to be fleeced by chic Parisians dressed in VC clothing with a few Silicone valley numbers in her contacts list?

And why have none of the Angels stood up on Twitter or Facebook and said "Yeah, I bought into neucoins and I am confident I'll make big bucks because..."

But nothing.  Crickets.  Do they even know their names are being used?  Why aren't they so excited that they are twitting about it?

Crickets.

Why the hell are you using up presale equity to fund a Paris lifestyle when you could do all this much cheaper in SE Asia?  I would like to live in Paris too.  But it is too expensive.  Start-ups should be lean.  Financing Parisian lifestyles for the Founders and coders is not lean.

Enthusiastic at the beginning, the more I learn, the less interested I become.  I'll wait till it crashes to 2 satochi on Cryptsy, and line up for some freebies just to follow this.

But not funding your life in Paris with my BTC.

The attack vectors were described in the thread I posted; you either didn't understand them or chose to ignore them.

Here it is again:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proof-of-stake-is-more-decentralized-efficient-and-secure-than-pow-white-paper-1007155

To be fair though, these fundamental issues exist with all POS coins.
It is simply a weaker security model than PoW and probably cannot
provide distributed consensus that scales, as others have written about.

However, it is dishonest for NeuCoin to claim they have "solved the issues with PoS" when they haven't.

 

 I am agree with balu2, this coin is yet dead, hyperinflation is coming

lol
If your small group of buddies with the 97% of all coins plan on staking (and they of course will) your blockchain isn't trustworthy as pure pos with 97% in the hand of an ingroup makes this thing 100% tustbased and the blockchain too.
POS with 97% with an ingroup is no trustless or secure solution for a coin. This can never go beyond a worthless tipping coin. I'd say fair valuation of this (after hype) should be between 50k$ and 1.5mln$ in the markets of today from all i can see taken everything like inflation (pos interests 100%), ipo and all in account. (just my opinion) 

What is that even supposed to mean?!?
What you're basically saying is that you actually haven't thought of any actual attack vector but "in your opinion" NeuCoin is not secure.

In this case, your opinion definitely isn't worth much.

Haha. Pot calling kettle black.

We did have a debate.  You lost imo. readers
Can make up their own minds.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proof-of-stake-is-more-decentralized-efficient-and-secure-than-pow-white-paper-1007155

hi kushti, sorry for the delay, I just posted an answer



Jonald, it's very dishonest of you to imply you proved any point in our discussion.

If you want to have a constructive debate, please provide a detailed description of the attack you think is possible: how many coins you own, what attack are you attempting (e.g. how many blocks you want to reverse), what are the different step of the attack etc. I'll be glad to give you a detailed, clean, step by step answer (with the maths) to prove to you that it's impossible and why.

Otherwise it's just you saying "I'm sure it doesn't work" and I can't possibly provide a counter argument to that.

smells like XPY

Will you stake your huge premine too? Probably you will ...

They can't.  I debated them about it in the other thread, there is nothing new to prevent grinding attacks.

Neucoin guys, I'm still waiting for reply to the timestamp grinding issue concern published last Saturday on NxtForum https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/neucoin%27s-40-page-white-paper-rebuts-all-nothing-at-stake-objections/msg174645/#msg174645

Rather funny to read qiwoman2 last posts: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/qiwoman2-340890

yeah that will happen

I like the idea that there is a limit to how many coins will be released to the exchanges so this should help the market cap and price of the coin be healthy in it's initial stages, am very interested and watching closely.   I just completed the survey too..