Topic: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official - page 49. (Read 196217 times)

A User in their Forum about the growth-account:

"I think the 5 year and even the 1 year lock for the growth account is a terrible idea. I really do not recommend it to anyone, unless you bought a lot and want to forget it for five years. Imagine the neucoin goes badly at year 4 and you want to sell it, you are almost at the point that you can take your 1600% return and sell it, but you cannot, unless you say goodbye to your 16x factor. Or at year 1 or 2 maybe other neucoin wallets open offering a lockdown free growth account. You see other smarter people moving their pile there, but you cannot again...unless you lose substantially. You will be angry, right? I really do not understand why there is a 5 year option there? To trap people? It is a mean strategy, totally negative. I think these artifical ties will just create suspicion that these guys just want us to naively click on the 5-year and basically we do not have money for 5 years to tip so we will buy again. Do you recommend this? If not, the 5-year option should be removed or big warning should pop up three times to warn of this. The obvious thing is sday's suggestion above or no lock down at all. Or if that is too good for the public, which you dont want I guess, so that others can open alternative better neucon wallets with better features, find something less harmful way to make myneucoin unattractive."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/investors-in-neucoin-growth-account/1341/9

Yes... but they won't like it in 3 months. Then they will have to build up some buy walls to precent dumping or catch it.


 
Yes... it's a greedy strategy and it's SO greedy that it's self-destructive.

Btw: Everytime the volume goes up it goes up because of dumpings. And every time I look at distribution it's mainly the first account on bittrex which has bought it. Now it's at 2.9 Mio.

Yes, they've started to stake one day before and about 8 Mio everyday and slowly but steady it suffocates the whole project.

The issue with the growth account and the three time periods is also: Everybody who is invested will fear those dates... Let's assume there are 100 or maybe 200 Supporters who are invested. The majority starts with a growth account and the majority most likely has chosen 3 months. In 3 months after launch a lot of Neucoins will be free and if they shouldn't be excited about the progress of NEU some or even many will sell their Coins...

The same after one year. I doubt that it will be much because I doubt that there are much supporters. But even if, they're damaging the price with their own strategy... They produce several days in a year that everybody will fear: Every month the 2% of the group behind are able to sell. After 3 and after 12 months those who have chosen a growth-account and get their money could sell. Investors will anticipate it, so that the price most likely will go down before. It's really paradox... The more of the coins are in public hands, the more the public and the group behind will fear those dates and the market. So they have to hold it in their own hands and.... stake it and stake it.

The whole economic design and the psychological-market-dynamics it implicates is flawed.

IMO it's because Neucoin likes to lock people into an investment, so they can't say anything negative without knowing they are hurting their own chances for success. Anyone who signed up for the growth account has shutup and smile for the next 3 months, and that's how the Neucoin team likes it.

That's also why they won't update the neucoin-qt client. They want everyone using the growth account for the lock in.

It reminds me of the multi level marketing/pyramid scams that go around from time to time. Once you buy into it, if you say anything about how you're losing money, failing to get other people involved, etc., then you are just hurting your chances to get others signed up underneath you. So everyone involved has this weird fake plastic smile, while they all sell their souls on the inside.

^^
I suspect they are cold mining/remote mining/pooling somehow.
nokoin Project will get 150%+ from their staking, then they pay 100% back in a year to investors. nokoin Project profiting by 50%. (yearly account).
nokoin Project just keeps taking.

Ditto on other growth accounts?

^ Interesting, I will look.


I found this for General perusal.

Block 1 Sept 12 8.02am.
http://www.neucoin.io/block/00000cde7894e403bc530b3d3f8d69679d50022dd7a5a6539194ff9c555a2d9f

Launch Sept 23 6.56pm
orum.neucoin.org/t/neucoin-is-live-available-on-exchanges-by-friday/1584

Block 1380 Sept 23 6.64pm (launch) 3,008,660,800 nokoin
http://www.neucoin.io/block/f0077509ac33b2a22c34ef63d91d8abd847e5be0cd0146437a5b0e2709662a1a

Block 4160 Sept 25 10.00am (1.6 days later when the first nokoiners will be able to stake) 3, 023, 044,000 nokoin
http://www.neucoin.io/block/e1278377cdef8602a386dcd4574f87cf77f09ba5837ef7738dcbbd9b362c2bba

Various transactions Over 5m (max purchase),
c1fec4a1f52baad04063ad78c235fce933ac8c384bb72d138408e272c80d00e1
from distribution wallet.
5cfb9c89f4f9f472cbab1e8f4d304b85234a23db55458b6082f174049376229d

Megga staking? in blocks around 3800 for example, over 100,000 "created" per block.


Btw, Any evidence of nokoin team doing pow?

Individual "growth accounts" are accumulated in collective "growth account" addresses. Collective "growth account" addresses have many inputs of varying size, no outputs (yet) and no decimals.

The following addresses are (probably) collective "growth account" addresses:

http://neucoin.io/address/Naq83C9qnFn8CarFnLov1khNYsgJzzEani
http://neucoin.io/address/NdYmnjS3oaFG6u2W8E41SWqSEjXsCcCmA3
http://neucoin.io/address/NbWn2oz8978ZzBTGSFqCgdsc5NdiSRwkXK
http://neucoin.io/address/NQ56Hbw6URkWyMYYw1gJy6puTdJSC5QYmX
http://neucoin.io/address/NXutQwgcRfzm3iSuhoL7snYy4ZpFKJNFmR
http://neucoin.io/address/NXt6Rvs3PiqswZnYe7ya66Cqf1427QgN9y
http://neucoin.io/address/NL5Tbit4riCU98X97dy2PinLmx6oXY5gZc
http://neucoin.io/address/NXXaKT6hA73oXtgviqtLPVs8unhJ3rGUF6
http://neucoin.io/address/NXt6Rvs3PiqswZnYe7ya66Cqf1427QgN9y
http://neucoin.io/address/NLDLVtKTsNLdqzjXeonsKyQm7myHutguoy
http://neucoin.io/address/NSEGhAvXyWFA5eHeEtnB8mqcw1MEpdHqLK
http://neucoin.io/address/NWPiqZF1tSapCvgcBCCCv2uK5bAmmYxMrm
http://neucoin.io/address/NLSDKQDvTrd22ZMEGSs25DeHs7KC4bZ9EB
http://neucoin.io/address/NagCkdRaYYF2ytrJXZgDvuPWjLbk8KUyc6
http://neucoin.io/address/NTH47TJRkMvGWsj2nCPUAtLxW8sCK3v3Qb

Balance of all these addresses together is ~ 78,000,000 NoKoin (78 % of the presale) which equals 2.6 % of all coins.

2.6 % of all coins means (assuming that 100% of all existing NeuCoins are staking) a chance of 2,6 % to find the next block, on average every 38.5 blocks, i.e. every 38.5 minutes, 37.4 times a day, 262 times a week.

Almost two weeks after launch and we haven't seen even one of those addresses finding even one block...

Conclusion: Growth account technical implementation not functional.

Empty promises pre launch.
"long reads but pretty important nevertheless!"
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/how-the-neucoin-community-can-monitor-the-foundations-and-teams-neucoin-token-holdings-over-time/1526

" all cryptocurrencies that follow this (premine) strategy (Ripple, Stellar, NeuCoin) face the challenge of winning the trust of their communities: specifically, how can users trust that the founders and insiders will in fact use the premine over time in a way that benefits all of the crypto’s holders, as opposed to primarily the founders or insiders themselves."
...
"all NeuCoin tokens owned by the foundations, as well as all restricted NeuCoins (whether owned by founders, angel investors or service providers) will be held and mined in published addresses clearly visible and verifiable on the NeuCoin blockchain."
...
"Each of the three foundations will have two publicly visible addresses: one for long-term holdings and the other for near-term transactions. The entire founding team will share one address controlled by the NeuCoin"
...
"All of the balances held by these entities along with the monthly transfers will be visible on the blockchain and easily verifiable by any outside party."


Which is why I presumed there would be an official block explorer.
To look at (un)published addresses.

With "team" owning more than 25% of all nokoin at launch, (800m+) they have "created" 25m+ nokoin for themselves in 2 weeks.
$250,000 worth pre launch.
So, $500,000 by month end?
Thats just the "team" personal gain, not foundations gain.
I would like to see these addresses.

And with the compounding it is more and more every month.
nokoin Project, What are the addresses.

Why keep making empty promises to your investors.
Especially when you know most are novices and have to trust in you.

It looks bad to me.

3 month minimum.
early investors are "locked" in. "Team members" are not.
They get 2% a month release. 20 million coins this month between them. (edited, not sure how many it works out too, they wont tell us!)
And "team members" restricted coin still doubles in a year, (after this 2% monthly release) because of the massive compound effect on their massive pile of nokoin. (800m+)

But using a qt wallet is not much better.
"Team" rewards will always be far greater % than anyone else because the are holding so many nokoin for themselves. (800million +)
With their efficiency, and compounding effect, get exponentially richer.

Also nokoin appears to have been created Sat 12 Sept. 8 million nokoin created even before launch.

Same question to you: Why not weekly payouts?

Okay, I understand. But it doesn't make it better... but worse in my eyes. Just three pay-out times to chose and the time between the chance for interest is zero. If I would chose 12 month but need money in 11 month and 20 days... I won't get my interest. And I would need to give my money a centralized system that plays bank.

Why not weekly-payouts? Is there a good reason for that?

And, I'm not an expert in technique. But I'm invested in BTCD... I start staking and it stakes new Coins everytime. Why is that different in Neucoin? Why this little chances?

Q1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

If using the qt wallet then yes, if using the "growth account" then no.

qt wallet example, (not for the masses, just the tech few)

"Here are some more specific examples. For simplicity, let’s assume that 100% of all existing NeuCoins are staking all the time, so the total number of NeuCoins staking at launch is 3B and grows from the POS rewards that are earned.
A miner starting with a stake of 1 million coins would be expected to mine this often:
1,000,000/3,000,000,000 = .0003333;
.0003333 x 1,440 = .48
so a miner’s chance of minting a block in a single day is 48%.
in other words, this miner would be expected to mint a block once every roughly 2 days
Using the same math process, a miner with a starting stake of 70,000 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 30 days, and a miner with a stake of 11,700 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 180 days."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/multiply-your-neucoins-through-growth-accounts-and-mining/1677

So, growth account options, (for the masses)

3 months, 20 % - That is 80 % per year
1 year, 100 % - That is 100 % per year
5 years, 1600 % - That is 320 % per year
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/growth-account-growth-rate/1436

Guarenteed return, but all "interest" is lost if withdrawn early. Only 3 time periods on offer.

Q2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?

Yes for the qt wallet. No for the "growth account"

So Newbie is talking qt wallet at first, then the "growth account"

Lol so you dont get growth accounts. Do you get cloud mining?

That implicates that's also not wrong what I said, right? Or please show me what is wrong.

No its not wrong what NeuBuy said.

So, it's wrong what "NeuBuy" said?

"You'll also have a lot of uncertainty, if you're unlucky it could be years before you mint coins."


And if it's wrong, why did Sandrine say: "What @NeuBuy posted is a good explanation of what the Growth Account is."?


Edit Source: http://forum.neucoin.org/t/investors-in-neucoin-growth-account/1341/6

You have to wait exactly one year for 100% interest.

Yes, it guarantees you to get coins. But it could be that you have to wait months or even years, correct?

That's also an interesting post:  





Interesting design. They would like to bind the money of their investors and at the same time they'll inflate the market. By the way... today they'll reach the 100 Mio they've sold in the ICO. Just because of staking.

Currently: 3,099,981,436

So... in about 1 to 2 hours the goal will be reached. All ICO-Coins back out of nothing.

Edit: Wrong calculation, because it's already reached...

3,100,034,991

100 Mio at the price of 0.000034 = 3400 BTC = $839,800