Topic: [ANN] [POW] [MSR] Masari - simple, scalable, and secure cryptocurrency - page 67. (Read 85208 times)

I'm trying to evaluate the difficulty algorithm, so I installed masari this morning, but it is not letting me get new blocks past 63507 (7 blocks after the changeover?).
 All it says are things like this:


2017-12-04 14:36:45.897   [P2P0]   INFO    global   src/cryptonote_protocol/cryptonote_protocol_handler.inl:302   [50.17.174.202:38080 OUT] Sync data returned a new top block candidate: 63507 -> 63879 [Your node is 372 blocks (0 days) behind]
SYNCHRONIZATION started
2017-12-04 14:37:30.716   [P2P5]   INFO    global   src/cryptonote_protocol/cryptonote_protocol_handler.inl:302   [103.28.22.111:40256 INC] Sync data returned a new top block candidate: 63507 -> 63879 [Your node is 372 blocks (0 days) behind]
SYNCHRONIZATION started
2017-12-04 14:37:32.781   [P2P8]   INFO    global   src/p2p/net_node.inl:258   Host 34.234.145.76 blocked.


Miners simply changing coins in pursuit of best price/difficulty ratio is desired behavior, but it is also an "attack" or "unfair" to your dedicated miners who are not as efficiently selfish. In one sense dedicated miners are merely whining. But the coin should take interest because they protect against 51% attacks by adding consistent diversity and because they are less likely to sell the coin.  If difficulty algorithms could be perfect, the "attack" would not exist.  They can't be perfect because the only way to know current hashrate is to collect and calculate it from recent solvetime and difficulty data, so there is a delay in response.  If price changes a lot and the difficulty is slow, then big miners come in and get coin at low difficulty when the price jumps higher, and then leave when difficulty catches up, leaving constant miners with higher-than-appropriate difficulty for the length of the averaging window.  But if the difficulty is made to respond fast, it has to base the calculation on fewer data points, so it will naturally vary more statistical "accidents" on the small N window. Historically I have pushed for low N, less than 30. But after seeing BCH do exceptionally well on keeping a low number of delays by using a large with N=144, I am having a change of heart.  Coins have told me cryptonote's original code is effectively an N=300 and they have had to fork to get away from it. The problem (presumably) is that there is a good price increase so they get a lot of mining, but then it suddenly drops and no one want to mine it and it's going to take 300/2=150 blocks to get half-way back down to where it needs to be.  I have not yet looked into cyrptonote code and data from coins to see exactly what the problem is, but that makes me afraid of N=144 for small coins.  I have also been told BCH seems to be depending on Chinese pools actively deciding to not harm BCH.  Zcash and its clones have done well with Digishield v3 with N=17 which is effectively an N=63 algorithms.  For this reason I considered N=60 to be safe, and larger like I was seeking, but not risky like N=144.  The weighted nature of this algorithm makes it respond faster to hashrate changes, which also means it will overshoot and undershoot more than Zcash which means big miners will see more opportunities to jump on when price/difficulty ratio looks good (by more accidentally lower difficulty).  However, as it responds faster quicker, they will not be able to stay on and get as many blocks as they normally do on Zcash and its clones.  On Zcash they get about 20 "cheap-difficulty" blocks about 3 times a day, a "loss" of about 10% of Zcash coins, as the difficulty accidentally goes low about 3x per day.  So constant miners have to pay an excess difficulty of 10%.  For Masari's WWHM N=60 algorithm, I expect twice as many price/difficulty opportunities per day than if Digishield v3 N=17 ("N=63") code were used, but only 1/2 as many blocks stolen per opportunity. I see this in testing.  I do not know if not being able to get as many blocks "per attack" makes attacks less appealing, but I hope so.  Also, the digishield v3 does not adjust for 5 or 6 blocks after a sudden hashrate change begins. This may cause some minor oscillations in Zcash.  Although "blocks stolen" at "cheap-difficulty-cost" might be the same, testing indicates post-"attack" delays will be 1/3 as much in Masari as Zcash.  

Review the following chart to see "state of the art" difficulty algorithms. I have learned a lot in the past few days.  I just found two levels of improvement over what Masari is using (which is what I recommended), but I have been expecting the WWHM that Masari is using to be the best algorithm. For EMA and Dynamic
 EMA details (the two new improvements) see http://zawy1.blogspot.com/2017/11/best-difficulty-algorithms.html   Someday in my blog i'll write an "all things difficulty" article to cover everything.  

https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/18004719/33560871-02d98bf6-d8df-11e7-821a-147c0ae04165.gif

Those are quotes from the discussion on github. Read the link I provided.

You can call it personally how you want. I guess it depends on the value system you were socialized into.

Really cheaters are "mining" this coin and also stealing it?? (this coin at moment in not profitable, why the guys want steal it?)

Thx....

63742   59 to go   25004630   2c0ae9e8ccc57cfc015fb6140ece08615cee0cdd2f548209d2542cbff25c57e7   12/4/2017, 09:59:01 AM   68%
63732   49 to go   19511411   02b99f385aab0217e2f7a755294e49d4a4a21d196917ded5e7c3411ed000d261   12/4/2017, 09:56:21 AM   58%

10 blocks within less than 3 minutes looks like a very short but strong attack. Attacker now using diff < 20M as trigger to start and maybe diff > 25M to stop?
Fortunately the new DAA doesn't get "triggered" anymore and keeps cool. Much better than before, but of course the "cheaters" are still stealing rewards from the "constant-on" miners and it can't be avoided if we want to have a quasi-constant block time, as zawy wrote.

The new difficulty algorithm's doing great so far, happy mining everyone!

Happy fork day - we've successfully forked into v3 of Masari!

I stopped mining Masari because at some point I only could mine 10% of the coins I mined before Nicehash maniacs.
And this happens in many coins, suddenly difficulty and hashrate rockets that's impossible to mine for little miners like me.
It's good to know that devs took action about Nicehash, I´ll return to Masari soon. 

Thanks!

Not yet, it's running behind schedule and is due on block 63500 (it's currently at 62880)

Has the fork already happened?

The current number of blocks remaining before we hit v3 is 659 (~ 22 hours if on normal emission rate) - these flash mine attacks have gotten pretty bad and we're currently past the fork date estimate

Cant wait for new DAA to start working, as for now profit is  so small if you take current  price. Nicehash should  burn in hell!

Well, at the current speed of 60 blocks in 11 hours, we will eventually reach the HF block 63500 in one week. The attacker is clearly not someone who wants cheap coins, but someone who wants to wreak havoc. That's the problem with nicehash. It's selling WMDs to monkeys.

Difficulty Adjustment Algorithm.

I don't think nicehash is switching to Masari by itself. Masari is probably not yet on their radar. The instamining attacks come from someone who is renting hashpower from nicehash. Probably not to dump the coins immediately since there is not yet enough liquidity in the market. Just someone who wants to accumulate coins but isn't willing to pay the real price for them. To put it another way: The attacker is able to circumvent the law of diminishing returns, due to the inert DAA.

Just for my information (noob inside...)  what is DAA???

And about Nicehash, this thing choose the best valuable coin to mine no?
So i think we have at least a few time before they coming to us no ?

Once a coin has a quick DAA, there is no financial incentive anymore for anyone to rent the nicehash botnet. Only a slow DAA allows nicehash to instamine a ton of coins at a difficulty which does not correspond to the hashrate, i.e. much too low, too cheap. It is then the other miners, which mine permanently, which are paying the price for the nicehash looting. The new DAA will hopefully fix that. If anyone still prefers to rent nicehash they will then have to pay the price. They will only get as many coins as they are supposed to get. Once nicehash does not have this unfair advantage due to a too slow DAA anymore, nicehash makes economically no sense anymore. They are always more expensive than having your own miners at home. They will still exist however because they make their money off those people who desperately want to call themselves miners because they own a few cards in a gaming rig, but are not willing even to learn how to run an executable from a batch file with a couple of parameters inside. Since these people also get their electricity paid by their parents, they don't care if they earn much less than they would earn if they mined like miners do. Nicehash is the solution for the peak ignorance tribe.

Of course if anyone wants to really attack a chain, he can still do it with nicehash even if the DAA works perfectly. But this is very rare since there is no financial incentive in doing so. Most people who buy hashrate there want to make money, not lose money for the lulz. And it requires additional skills which fortunately the vast majority of people doesn't have. Yes, there could be an incentive for an attack but only once a coin is popular, on the big exchanges and can be margin traded. Only then it makes sense to short it and then attack it. But by that time is has a huge global hashrate so that even the hashrate available for purchase on nicehash is far too small for a 51% attack.

Thaer how do you think to fight Nicehash? they ruin a coin!

Just switch from the first wallet to the new masari-gui-win-x64-v0.1.3.0, everythings work fine, wait now for the fork 

EVERYONE PLEASE UPDATE TO V0.1.3.0 BINARIES AND RE-DOWNLOAD IF YOU DOWNLOADED BEFORE Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:51:41 AM UTC
FORK IS DUE TO OCCUR ON Saturday, 2 December 2017 09:30 UTC AT BLOCK 63500

Linux - https://github.com/masari-project/masari/releases/download/v0.1.3.0/masari-linux-x64-v0.1.3.0.tar.gz
Windows -  https://github.com/masari-project/masari/releases/download/v0.1.3.0/masari-win-x64-v0.1.3.0.zip
Mac - https://github.com/masari-project/masari/releases/download/v0.1.3.0/masari-mac-x64-v0.1.3.0.tar.gz

GUI Mac - https://github.com/masari-project/masari-wallet-gui/releases/download/v0.1.3.0/masari-gui-mac-x64-v0.1.3.0.tar.gz
GUI Windows - https://github.com/masari-project/masari-wallet-gui/releases/download/v0.1.3.0/masari-gui-win-x64-v0.1.3.0.zip

The quickest way to check is running masarid.exe and you should find it saying "Masari 'Airborne Angelfish' (v0.1.3.0-0e6ed8a)" as the version (the hash at the end needs to be this value to make sure you have the updated v0.1.3.0 daemon)