[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 404.

Collider

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: wissam on August 26, 2014, 09:18:00 AM

@Biodom: Any idea on how long the units will ROI and the actual life of the units to begin with? If difficulty continues to rise the way they are then how long approx before the machines can't even pay for their own hosting you think if hosting is $270 a month per unit? I'm considering the high possibility of just running them until they can't break even and just drop out of this mining thing because it's not worth the risk.

Nobody can give a good prediction on this, as the parameters to calculate it are largely unknown.

A typical lifetime for a miner has been around 1 year , which is mainly due to high historical efficiency increases.

Current generation Spondoolies miners could proove to be a reliable backbone of the blockchain for over 1 year, if difficulty growth decreases as expected and / or bitcoin value increases.

It is also likely that August batch machines will be profitable.

wissam

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Biodom on August 26, 2014, 09:10:28 AM

Quote from: wissam on August 26, 2014, 09:01:03 AM

Quote from: Collider on August 26, 2014, 08:50:38 AM

@ wissam

If you are so disappointed, why don´t you go for the refund?

Complaining on the forum how you think there will be perpetual difficulty rise and other factors not within direct control of spondoolies will certainly not help your position.

You will notice that the cost for the SP31 is about the same price of the SP30 I paid for but it has an additional 1TH speed. so they can sell the better/faster SP31 device for cheaper but not the SP30 after all the delays and disappointment that affects customer's return in such a negative way?

@wissam

you seem to be new to this "racket", but there will be about a month-month and a half between Sp-30 and SP-31, which means miner with higher speed, paradoxically, will most likely NOT produce more bitcoins. Spond basically calculated Sp-31 price based on ~22% increase in difficulty vs ~22% higher speed for almost the same price (after rebate)-at least that is what my numbers show. If there will be more than 22% difficulty increase between Sept batches and Sp-31, then Sp-30 WAS a better deal, and if less, than Sp-31 IS a better deal. The unknown makes the market and your risk in this choice.

@bitcoinbearhk: Will be hosting with Toom.im

@Biodom: Any idea on how long the units will ROI and the actual life of the units to begin with? If difficulty continues to rise the way they are then how long approx before the machines can't even pay for their own hosting you think if hosting is $270 a month per unit? I'm considering the high possibility of just running them until they can't break even and just drop out of this mining thing because it's not worth the risk.

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3892

Merit: 4331

Quote from: wissam on August 26, 2014, 09:01:03 AM

Quote from: Collider on August 26, 2014, 08:50:38 AM

@ wissam

If you are so disappointed, why don´t you go for the refund?

Complaining on the forum how you think there will be perpetual difficulty rise and other factors not within direct control of spondoolies will certainly not help your position.

You will notice that the cost for the SP31 is about the same price of the SP30 I paid for but it has an additional 1TH speed. so they can sell the better/faster SP31 device for cheaper but not the SP30 after all the delays and disappointment that affects customer's return in such a negative way?

@wissam

you seem to be new to this "racket", but there will be about a month-month and a half between Sp-30 and SP-31, which means miner with higher speed, paradoxically, will most likely NOT produce more bitcoins. Spond basically calculated Sp-31 price based on ~22% increase in difficulty vs ~22% higher speed for almost the same price (after rebate)-at least that is what my numbers show. If there will be more than 22% difficulty increase between Sept batches and Sp-31, then Sp-30 WAS a better deal, and if less, than Sp-31 IS a better deal. The unknown makes the market and your risk in this choice.
Edit: by the same calculation, GB, is definitely a better deal than Sept Sp-30 and almost certainly better than Sp-31.

bitcoinbearhk

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Quote from: wissam on August 26, 2014, 08:49:07 AM

I don't see how ROI on the miners can be achieved if the difficulty increases so fast before the miners can even get to us and make any respectable $$$. Looks like our only hope is if the BTC to USD rate goes up and that's not a gamble anyone should be taking with their money, and on the other hand if BTC to USD drops then you can see how the people mining are the ones that are screwed even further here...

Personally I don't believe the cost of the hardware itself is justified, it's too expensive and the hardware manufacturers keep the buyers thinking that at current mining difficulty and rate they will get their money back in 3 months, but that is not true.

When I purchased the miners in July 24 or so the difficulty was about 17.34G at a BTC to USD rate of $650 expecting to get a decent return, now I still don't have my miners and I have to wait another 1 month, have spent $125,900 USD to Spondoolies, difficulty is now at 23.84G at a BTC to USD rate of $500. By the time I get my miners up and working the difficulty will be about 30.00G if not more and even if the rate stays at $500 I'm basically still screwed because the miners will probably not make their money back before they out live their useful life.

Everyone better think well and hard before buying mining equipment on pre-order with 2 months waiting time, never again. I hope I can get my money back by running my 29 x SP30 miners until they end up in the bin by January or February 2015...

Mining Hardware producers like Spondoolies and the rest are pretty much safe. We are the ones worried about getting our money back while they sell us expensive hardware on pre-order.

29 x SP30?? You sure you have the power supply and ventilation to handle that?

wissam

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Collider on August 26, 2014, 09:02:14 AM

Quote from: Biodom on August 26, 2014, 08:58:48 AM

I think full refund is available (theoretically) only for the GB and he has (allegedly) September batch.

Okay, I wasn´t up to date on the alleged units.

My question would be, why would you do such a big investment if you aren´t absolutely sure there are factors which will help you ROI faster?

I can understand such a big investment if you are sitting in a warehouse with 400kW available electricity and rates of 2,5-5 ct/kWh....

But certainly not without even a hosting solution figured out, just saying.

Some of us are not BTC experts to know the full details on the factors that will affect, when I calculated in July I didn't know that the Difficulty would increase so fast in a short time and that SP would delay so much and that their SP30 will be sub-standard and also that the rate would drop like it did.

Collider

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: Biodom on August 26, 2014, 08:58:48 AM

I think full refund is available (theoretically) only for the GB and he has (allegedly) September batch.

Okay, I wasn´t up to date on the alleged units.

My question would be, why would you do such a big investment if you aren´t absolutely sure there are factors which will help you ROI faster?

I can understand such a big investment if you are sitting in a warehouse with 400kW available electricity and rates of 2,5-5 ct/kWh....

But certainly not without even a hosting solution figured out, just saying.

That being said, the general consensus seems to be that average difficulty increases will slow down (and have already slowed down in the last months).
Bitfury approaches their internal cost very soon, and most other hardware is less power-efficient.

wissam

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Collider on August 26, 2014, 08:50:38 AM

@ wissam

If you are so disappointed, why don´t you go for the refund?

Complaining on the forum how you think there will be perpetual difficulty rise and other factors not within direct control of spondoolies will certainly not help your position.

Spondoolies will only refund the GB August batch so people that got their units after that will not get a refund in $.

It's not within the control of SP but they need to take that into account when setting the selling price of the miner considering the time they take while it gets difficult to mine and USD rate drops and also not forgetting the speed drop from 6TH to 4.5TH (I swear SP if you say one more time that you have "Compensated" for the difference in $/GH then you are basically telling us that we are stupid, so don't say it anymore because bottom line is we the customers that will be mining are losing $$$ even with your so called "Compensation"). If you wanted to compensate fairly you would check the difficultly at the time you ship the unit to the customer and refund the rest in $ or BTC according to current rate).

You will notice that the cost for the SP31 is about the same price of the SP30 I paid for but it has an additional 1TH speed. so they can sell the better/faster SP31 device for cheaper but not the SP30 after all the delays and disappointment that affects customer's return in such a negative way?

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3892

Merit: 4331

Quote from: Collider on August 26, 2014, 08:50:38 AM

@ wissam

If you are so disappointed, why don´t you go for the refund?

I think full refund is available (theoretically) only for the GB and he has (allegedly) September batch.

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3892

Merit: 4331

Quote from: wissam on August 26, 2014, 08:49:07 AM

I don't see how ROI on the miners can be achieved if the difficulty increases so fast before the miners can even get to us and make any respectable $$$. Looks like our only hope is if the BTC to USD rate goes up and that's not a gamble anyone should be taking with their money, and on the other hand if BTC to USD drops then you can see how the people mining are the ones that are screwed even further here...

Personally I don't believe the cost of the hardware itself is justified, it's too expensive and the hardware manufacturers keep the buyers thinking that at current mining difficulty and rate they will get their money back in 3 months, but that is not true.

When I purchased the miners in July 24 or so the difficulty was about 17.34G at a BTC to USD rate of $650 expecting to get a decent return, now I still don't have my miners and I have to wait another 1 month, have spent $125,900 USD to Spondoolies, difficulty is now at 23.84G at a BTC to USD rate of $500. By the time I get my miners up and working the difficulty will be about 30.00G if not more and even if the rate stays at $500 I'm basically still screwed because the miners will probably not make their money back before they out live their useful life.

Everyone better think well and hard before buying mining equipment on pre-order with 2 months waiting time, never again. I hope I can get my money back by running my 29 x SP30 miners until they end up in the bin by January or February 2015...

Mining Hardware producers like Spondoolies and the rest are pretty much safe. We are the ones worried about getting our money back while they sell us expensive hardware on pre-order.

Spondoolies cannot guarantee positive ROI-nobody can. You took a large risk all at once and it MIGHT still work out, but it is better to spread the risk over time, in my opinion.

Collider

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

@ wissam

If you are so disappointed, why don´t you go for the refund?

Complaining on the forum how you think there will be perpetual difficulty rise and other factors not within direct control of spondoolies will certainly not help your position.

I agree that long-term pre-orders are risky and generally don´t turn out too well.

Spondoolies produces a quality product though, and there is such a high demand that people want to pay for their product in advance.

wissam

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

I don't see how ROI on the miners can be achieved if the difficulty increases so fast before the miners can even get to us and make any respectable $$$. Looks like our only hope is if the BTC to USD rate goes up and that's not a gamble anyone should be taking with their money, and on the other hand if BTC to USD drops then you can see how the people mining are the ones that are screwed even further here...

Personally I don't believe the cost of the hardware itself is justified, it's too expensive and the hardware manufacturers keep the buyers thinking that at current mining difficulty and rate they will get their money back in 3 months, but that is not true.

When I purchased the miners in July 24 or so the difficulty was about 17.34G at a BTC to USD rate of $650 expecting to get a decent return, now I still don't have my miners and I have to wait another 1 month, have spent $125,900 USD to Spondoolies, difficulty is now at 23.84G at a BTC to USD rate of $500. By the time I get my miners up and working the difficulty will be about 30.00G if not more and even if the rate stays at $500 I'm basically still screwed because the miners will probably not make their money back before they out live their useful life.

Everyone better think well and hard before buying mining equipment on pre-order with 2 months waiting time, never again. I hope I can get my money back by running my 29 x SP30 miners until they end up in the bin by January or February 2015...

Mining Hardware producers like Spondoolies and the rest are pretty much safe. We are the ones worried about getting our money back while they sell us expensive hardware on pre-order.

Collider

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: Biodom on August 26, 2014, 08:31:47 AM

Are we there yet?
It is the end of the working day in Israel (unless you are loading SW on miners-that is an all nighter).
No email of any sort so far.

It seems like some groupbuy units were shipped today (and some were put into hosting aswell).

I got my first email regarding compensation today, so that is starting aswell.

My guess is that all groupbuy units should ship until Thursday, and will therefore be with their respective owners soon.

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3892

Merit: 4331

Are we there yet?
It is the end of the working day in Israel (unless you are loading SW on miners-that is an all nighter).
No email of any sort so far.

s1gs3gv

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1014

ex uno plures

Quote from: Guy Corem on August 26, 2014, 02:27:39 AM

Quote from: s1gs3gv on August 25, 2014, 06:50:31 PM

...this fella has everybody who doesn't kiss his ass on his ignore list. Only worshippers allowed...

This is unfair comment. Everyone can be a little grumpy after working all night.

Sorry Guy. You're right again ! Glad to see you stepped up to the plate on the refund issue.

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Quote from: RoadStress on August 26, 2014, 05:46:34 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 26, 2014, 04:37:43 AM

And added to this how long will it take to get this refund , and what about the reservation fees those just went poof I guess

Yes, but Sean's Outpost, ckolivas, etotheipi and me thank you for it.

Roadstress...Great job on those donations! Glad to see that sort of thing happening around here.

RoadStress

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 26, 2014, 04:37:43 AM

And added to this how long will it take to get this refund , and what about the reservation fees those just went poof I guess

Yes, but Sean's Outpost, ckolivas, etotheipi and me thank you for it.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 26, 2014, 04:37:43 AM

Quote from: Searing on August 26, 2014, 04:05:39 AM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 26, 2014, 04:00:55 AM

Quote from: Searing on August 26, 2014, 03:51:39 AM

OK caught up on that part...full refund means full refund on product...as to the GB hosting is that included in this refund option? (again unsure of my position on all this
just trying to get the facts) if GB hosting is a no refund option then no having no unit makes no sense.

thanks and again roadstress and to all involved in answering my question..I appreciate it....again just trying to get all the right info/facts.

Searing

Well just as you said. It makes no sense to refund only for the unit and not for the hosting so the hosting refund is mandatory.

ok...thanks if I make such a decision do we contact [email protected] or who (as I look thru the thread)

again appreciate the help but as long as I'm getting prompt replies here if you know off hand or perhaps I need to go thru Guy instead (here? email?)

(off to look thru thread again)

Searing

And added to this how long will it take to get this refund , and what about the reservation fees those just went poof I guess

yeah but to be fair I did waste their time by getting a refund even if it was due to the decrease in hash and elec on the GB orders
so I understand the above timeline etc is "fluid" .....how the world works when you 'unwind' something like this I guess

Searing

Marvell1

legendary

Activity: 2408

Merit: 1102

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Searing on August 26, 2014, 04:05:39 AM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 26, 2014, 04:00:55 AM

Quote from: Searing on August 26, 2014, 03:51:39 AM

OK caught up on that part...full refund means full refund on product...as to the GB hosting is that included in this refund option? (again unsure of my position on all this
just trying to get the facts) if GB hosting is a no refund option then no having no unit makes no sense.

thanks and again roadstress and to all involved in answering my question..I appreciate it....again just trying to get all the right info/facts.

Searing

Well just as you said. It makes no sense to refund only for the unit and not for the hosting so the hosting refund is mandatory.

ok...thanks if I make such a decision do we contact [email protected] or who (as I look thru the thread)

again appreciate the help but as long as I'm getting prompt replies here if you know off hand or perhaps I need to go thru Guy instead (here? email?)

(off to look thru thread again)

Searing

And added to this how long will it take to get this refund , and what about the reservation fees those just went poof I guess

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: RoadStress on August 26, 2014, 04:00:55 AM

Quote from: Searing on August 26, 2014, 03:51:39 AM

OK caught up on that part...full refund means full refund on product...as to the GB hosting is that included in this refund option? (again unsure of my position on all this
just trying to get the facts) if GB hosting is a no refund option then no having no unit makes no sense.

thanks and again roadstress and to all involved in answering my question..I appreciate it....again just trying to get all the right info/facts.

Searing

Well just as you said. It makes no sense to refund only for the unit and not for the hosting so the hosting refund is mandatory.

ok...thanks if I make such a decision do we contact [email protected] or who (as I look thru the thread)

again appreciate the help but as long as I'm getting prompt replies here if you know off hand or perhaps I need to go thru Guy instead (here? email?)

(off to look thru thread again)

Searing

Collider

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: Marvell1 on August 26, 2014, 03:45:45 AM

Quote from: bitcoiner23 on August 26, 2014, 03:41:36 AM

Things get real! I got an email from ST: "Please advise your wallet address for this order so we could connect it orderly."

Which means what?

That the unit is ready for hosting.

Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 404. (Read 1260290 times)