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Topic: [ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming) - page 254. (Read 790391 times)

legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
So I'm researching lottery rules and laws. I'm pretty sure we don't fall into that category as we are not selling tickets.

But, the lottery game design aspect does have a few similarities. In particular, as the value of the payout grows, the participation increases.



We might need to create some official dates for reducing the collateral without affecting the validity of earlier participants. 500 SPR @ $50/SPR would be prohibitive to many and would potentially stifle participation?

legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
If you are reading this and you think everyone has gone mad (well me  Grin), then you need to understand a little more about private keys and how hard they are to find.

This is a great easy introduction to private keys



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZloHVKk7DHk

Bitcoin 101  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
@georgem

Can we increase this to 18 or more?



Just thinking that ASICs would run riot through the combinations. It would still likely take a few years and that might be enough, but it would be interesting to know if the flexibility is there before we start.

I don't expect big ASIC farms as they would need to fund operations for months if not years. So they would run the risk of going out of business before the fund was built up to a sufficient level to cover costs.

Pooling of thousands of small investors to fund operations might be an issue, as would botnets.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
@E1ghtspace

Any chance of a video on how to use Vanity Gen and search for SatoshiNakamoto1?

Bounty: 500 SPR?

edit

Actually, can you also do a second video to show:

* How to send coins to yourself, from one address to another.
* Then another segments to show how to sign a message from yourself: "I am searching for SatoshiNakamoto1 and this is my 500 SPR collateral"
* Explain that the collateral in the new address they are sending funds to with the signed message has to remain unspent or the search is invalidated and their winning funds will rollover to a search for SatoshiNakamoto2. You might have to show what an unspent transaction looks like on the block chain.

Bounty 1,000 SPR.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
So lets check everything and get everyone on the same page.



How long before SatoshiNakamoto1 is found?

Are we in agreement that the wallet needs to have 500 SPR balance before commencing its search?

The 500 SPR needs to be sent from SatoshiNakamoto1, with details of the block published?

We are going to keep building up a BTC fund that is aimed at being around $1m, but it will just keep growing. Some of the coinbase mining rewards will be sent to keep building up this fund, say 1% of SPR?

We will need an SPR > BTC exchange to happen, plus muti-sig escrow.

Anything else?

It turns out that this has an unexpected impact on typical game theory not entirely unrelated to lotteries.

Remember, we are not asking people to pay to participate, but to provide collateral to prevent botnets (we don't want to be the cause of a cyber crime wave).

In typical lotteries, people buy a ticket and that payment is used to build up the prize fund; to distribute money to the lottery organisers; and also for specific causes such as distribution to charities.

We are not asking anyone to pay to buy a ticket, so there are no funds to be built up from ticket sales and the organisers, well there are none who will be paid (except perhaps to those who provide the escrow services).

The interesting development on lottery game theory is the impact on Bitcoin.

With traditional lotteries, as the prize fund builds up, more people are attracted to play. The bigger the sum the more people want to participate and the bigger the amounts they are prepared to spend on buying tickets.

Now, if we request that 500 SPR is used to prevent sybil attacks and to keep a reasonable playing field, then that will obviously be good for SPR.

However, as the value of SPR increases, the value of the coinbase increases. The as yet unfinished rules of this van gen prize is that we need to buy BTC from a share of the SPR coinbase - lets say 1% or it could be more.

Depending on how long it takes to find SatoshiNakamoto1, we could be buying Bitcoins for years.

This is where things are similar to the psychology of lottery game theory.

During the early stages, we won't make any noticeable impact on SPR price, or the price of Bitcoin. However, as the payout increases from 5BTC, 10BTC, 20BTC, 40BTC, 80BTC, 160BTC, 320BTC............1.3m BTC the amount of people participating snowballs.

At current prices, 1.3m BTC is around $370m. But if we end up putting buying pressure on BTC, that amount could be far higher, over $1bn. This would mean that the market cap of Bitcoin itself would escalate, drawing in more people.

This, on the face of it, would put a risk on Bitcoin collapsing if the successful person who wins all that BTC decides he or she wants to 100% cash out. This is the real Satoshi problem. He has millions of BTC, so much that he can't cash them all out.  

In reality, the seller of over 1m BTC would have to cash out slowly, or by the time they get their 1.3m BTC, there would have been so much interest created in Bitcoin and the value would have gone up so much that it becomes mainstream and the new Bitcoin millionaire / Billionaire would not need to cash out of BTC.

I guess this is like people in Canada only being allowed to buy lottery tickets in America. People from around the world would have to buy Canadian dollars, from which they can then buy lottery tickets. As the prize fund grows, there would be buying pressure on the American dollar causing it to increase in value.

Hmm, very interesting.

It would probably take SPR a while to get some early traction on this, but once it hits a certain point (not quite the tipping point), the network effect should start to appear.

What if SPR gets too valuable for people and the 500 SPR is a barrier?

Well, I guess pools would form. It would be difficult to reduce the 500 SPR, but not impossible. This would allow existing funds to be set free and people can choose to use their funds to cash out or create more van gen nodes.

@georgem, I think you're right, there would be a point at which ASICs would be built that do nothing but search for Satoshi. If this happens and thousands of people buy them, the confidence in the security of Bitcoin will go up, as people will see how secure private keys really are. You'll have the whole world searching for one private key with a huge amount of value.

If someone finds SatoshiNakamoto1, well we also have 2, 3,4.....to 9.

We need a PhD candidate to pick this up.

What a highly interesting side show to the main events which are about to unfold. But luckily, we have the raw ingredients to make this happen now. So we might as well let the pressure cooker start pretty soon.

edit

@Georgem (and everyone else I guess) - can we allocate 30% of mining rewards to build up a fund and have that reducing down to, say, 1% over a period of x months?

This would kick off the BTC bounty, but release funds to servicenodes as they come on stream. The value of SPR should also increase meaning that servicenodes would have funds to pay for any hosting or home bandwidth costs.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
I wrote a simple android app to help me keep track of my various crypto holdings, here it is with some example addresses:



It's free on Google Play, some of you may find it useful. Works with BTC, LTC, DASH, and any alt with a Chainz block explorer and a Bittrex trading pair, so it can get the ALT/BTC and US$ value for you. If there's some alt that doesn't work, if it has a working public block explorer and exchange its traded on with public API access then I can add it.

Just updated to v3 which is much faster, if you install it in the next couple of hours you'll probably get v2 and an upgrade message when v3 has settled in.

Might add some email/alarm type notifications for masternode / servicenode / banknode / whatevernode payments when I get the chance.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.crouton.lone.mybanknodes&hl=en

lol he used my address for testing :-p
legendary
Activity: 1151
Merit: 1001
is preview wallet ok for usage?
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
I wrote a simple android app to help me keep track of my various crypto holdings, here it is with some example addresses:



It's free on Google Play, some of you may find it useful. Works with BTC, LTC, DASH, and any alt with a Chainz block explorer and a Bittrex trading pair, so it can get the ALT/BTC and US$ value for you. If there's some alt that doesn't work, if it has a working public block explorer and exchange its traded on with public API access then I can add it.

Just updated to v3 which is much faster, if you install it in the next couple of hours you'll probably get v2 and an upgrade message when v3 has settled in.

Might add some email/alarm type notifications for masternode / servicenode / banknode / whatevernode payments when I get the chance.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.crouton.lone.mybanknodes&hl=en

Looks really good TLC!  I'll give it a go on my Nexus 6 when I have a chance.

I just noticed he used my address. lol. Only 2 SPR  Cry
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
Pretty Radical?

Lol.  You are.  You sure are Cheesy

Shoot for the moon, then engineer back down to earth.
legendary
Activity: 1694
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1694
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything


This should get some transactions going, @georgem  Wink

I reckon that will take care of itself when we hit testnet with PoBN.

True, but Georgem has already done the work with the van gen, its good to go now. No testnet required  Wink

I've already got the PR written out in my hungover head.

I reckon if you had a CT scan the lobes of your brain would spell out PR Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000


This should get some transactions going, @georgem  Wink

I reckon that will take care of itself when we hit testnet with PoBN.

True, but Georgem has already done the work with the van gen, its good to go now. No testnet required  Wink

I've already got the PR written out in my hungover head.
legendary
Activity: 1694
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything


This should get some transactions going, @georgem  Wink

I reckon that will take care of itself when we hit testnet with PoBN.
legendary
Activity: 1694
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
A:  SoZNOitDoEsnTLX5oJGVFMg4iRkrjaM7sN
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000

You have created 'auto import.....' can that not generate a date when the key is found and imported into the address book?

That could be part of the rules - must use auto-import to give a found date.

Perhaps bots are just going to be something to put up with?

Sounds like we'll need an entry process...perhaps, sign this 500 SPR transaction as your evidence of entry and the payout will go to that address, once it is used to transact with SatoshiNakamoto1?

This is getting more complicated by the second. lol

To have any validity, everything must be verified thru the blockchain and nothing else. (auto-import is just a simple qt-wallet function)


Maybe they can ask the servicenodes for something that they use to generate the private key, (something that can be proven to have been used and something that involves time). Then once the address is found, the owner has 72 hours to claim the prize.

It would be better to keep this off service nodes so we can make a start now.

Maybe this is getting too complicated.  How about we just ask that someone signs a 500 SPR transaction as 'I'm looking for SatoshiNakamoto1, please pay this address when I find him'

The 500 SPR is their own and not an entry fee, so it shouldn't be considered a lottery for gaming purposes. It just has to stay there for the payout to be valid.

Q. Does the wallet start searching the van gen fresh when it is shutdown and restarted? Or does it keep a memory of what was already searched? I guess it starts fresh each time.

This should get some transactions going, @georgem  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1694
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
^ Very useful if you have lots of addresses!  Easier just to dump them in a text file...
legendary
Activity: 1694
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
I wrote a simple android app to help me keep track of my various crypto holdings, here it is with some example addresses:



It's free on Google Play, some of you may find it useful. Works with BTC, LTC, DASH, and any alt with a Chainz block explorer and a Bittrex trading pair, so it can get the ALT/BTC and US$ value for you. If there's some alt that doesn't work, if it has a working public block explorer and exchange its traded on with public API access then I can add it.

Just updated to v3 which is much faster, if you install it in the next couple of hours you'll probably get v2 and an upgrade message when v3 has settled in.

Might add some email/alarm type notifications for masternode / servicenode / banknode / whatevernode payments when I get the chance.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.crouton.lone.mybanknodes&hl=en

Looks really good TLC!  I'll give it a go on my Nexus 6 when I have a chance.
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